Originally posted by ShadowFyre
So how many of the vamps can hit as hard as a 30 megaton nuclear weapon? Because thats the only thing we have seen that has enough force to knock Thor unconcious.
Where did you get the 30 megaton nuclear weapon number from?
The vamps can just bite Thor you know. They won't need to knock him out. Or they can just overpower him and drown him or something, can't remember if Thor needs air to breathe.
Personally, I think Abom is the biggest threat here. Hulk can be calmed down but it doesn't work on Abom.
Originally posted by Kotor3
i'm believe it is a composite of each character with their best showings.
I see no stip indicating that this is a composite-"feat" Hulk.
But if it was, then I believe Hulk would win any physical fight by himself due to using the combined savagery/strength/durability "feats" of MCU Hulk and the regen/speed/amping of Ang Lee Hulk.
We're talking about a rocket-backhanding, aircraft cannon/Chitauri glider cannon soaking, Leviathan-punching, anger-amping rage machine with a healing factor.
Vampire's chances skyrocket due to exotics, however.
Also, to believe that the tree push (w/c seems like a top end "feat" for vamps) is 1/6th Hulk's strength, one has to believe that such a push is within the 100+ ton range as Hulk's top end "feat" (Leviathan punch) IIRC was computed to be in the thousand(s) of tons as Ang Lee Hulk isn't the strongest Hulk (by "feats"😉.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
I see no stip indicating that this is a composite-"feat" Hulk.But if it was, then I believe Hulk would win any physical fight by himself due to using the combined savagery/strength/durability "feats" of MCU Hulk and the regen/speed/amping of Ang Lee Hulk.
We're talking about a rocket-backhanding, aircraft cannon/Chitauri glider cannon soaking, Leviathan-punching, anger-amping rage machine with a healing factor.
Vampire's chances skyrocket due to exotics, however.
Also, to believe that the tree push (w/c seems like a top end "feat" for vamps) is 1/6th Hulk's strength, one has to believe that such a push is within the 100+ ton range as Hulk's top end "feat" (Leviathan punch) IIRC was computed to be in the thousand(s) of tons as Ang Lee Hulk isn't the strongest Hulk (by "feats"😉.
I'm willing to haggle exactly how much more stronger Hulk is over a vamp. I only based the 1/6 estimate on Thor being 1/2 Hulk strength . I will point out though that the tree uprooting feat was performed by a self admitted weak-ish vampire who did the feat pretty effortlessly. So I definitely would not call it a top end vamp feat. We can also use Bella casually smashing rock just by arm wrestling on top of it.
Anyway, even if 1/6 Hulk strength is too high an estimate, I seriously doubt Hulk can over power more than 20 vamps, and that's not even taking into account their massive speed advantage or their exotic abilities
Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm willing to haggle exactly how much more stronger Hulk is over a vamp. I only based the 1/6 estimate on Thor being 1/2 Hulk strength . I will point out though that the tree uprooting feat was performed by a self admitted weak-ish vampire who did the feat pretty effortlessly. So I definitely would not call it a top end vamp feat. We can also use Bella casually smashing rock just by arm wrestling on top of it.Anyway, even if 1/6 Hulk strength is too high an estimate, I seriously doubt Hulk can over power more than 20 vamps, and that's not even taking into account their massive speed advantage or their exotic abilities
Scaling only works in the absence of "feats" and is in itself a poor means of quantification. In the presence of actual "fears", "feats" take precedence. Thor being 1/2 Hulk would upgrade Thor's strength, not downgrade Hulk's as Hulk has the more pronounced strength "feats".
The tree push is a top end vamp "feat" as no other vampire has demonstrated comparable/higher "feats". It doesn't mean he is the strongest. Only that, as showings go, this is an outlier. So we compare outliers with outliers to create a fairer comparison. And it was not effortless, there was definite strain on his face as he did the push:
https://youtu.be/qgWmpPudTEQ (0:57).
Plus the tree push has yet to be quantified. I once tried to ask an old physics prof buddy to do it for me some time back but he refused to watch a bad movie to quantify fictional "feats" as it was a silly waste of his time. 🙁
I would believe, based on "feats", that even 20 vamps would be unable to match his strength. Maybe 50-100 could overpower him (even then, I have my doubts).
Ang Lee Hulk cassually dodged and backhanded air-to-surface rockets fired from a Comanche gunship. Twice.
(1:42-1:43)
Which (if I'm correct) can go as fast as Mach 1.3 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-114_Hellfire). There is no "massive speed advantage" that Ang Lee Hulk cannot react to as Ang Lee Hulk was no slouch in terms of speed.
Like I said, composite "feat" Hulk is practically physically unbeatable if used in this fight. Exotics is their only chance IMO.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Scaling only works in the absence of "feats" and is in itself a poor means of quantification. In the presence of actual "fears", "feats" take precedence. Thor being 1/2 Hulk would upgrade Thor's strength, not downgrade Hulk's as Hulk has the more pronounced strength "feats".The tree push is a top end vamp "feat" as no other vampire has demonstrated comparable/higher "feats". It doesn't mean he is the strongest. Only that, as showings go, this is an outlier. So we compare outliers with outliers to create a fairer comparison. And it was not effortless, there was definite strain on his face as he did the push:
https://youtu.be/qgWmpPudTEQ (0:57).
Plus the tree push has yet to be quantified. I once tried to ask an old physics prof buddy to do it for me some time back but he refused to watch a bad movie to quantify fictional "feats" as it was a silly waste of his time. 🙁
I would believe, based on "feats", that even 20 vamps would be unable to match his strength. Maybe 50-100 could overpower him (even then, I have my doubts).
Ang Lee Hulk cassually dodged and backhanded air-to-surface rockets fired from a Comanche gunship. Twice.
(1:42-1:43)
Which (if I'm correct) can go as fast as Mach 1.3 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-114_Hellfire). There is no "massive speed advantage" that Ang Lee Hulk cannot react to as Ang Lee Hulk was no slouch in terms of speed.
Like I said, composite "feat" Hulk is practically physically unbeatable if used in this fight. Exotics is their only chance IMO.
Yes, there is a massive speed advantage. Because even though Hulk backhanding that rocket was a good speed feat, that rocket travels in a straight trajectory towards Hulk. It is not intelligent enough to avoid being swatted away nor is it capable of making complex maneuvers to confuse Hulk. It's the same reason why baseball players may easily catch and hit a baseball but will have trouble catching a fly. The vampires are able to perform complex maneuvers at super speed, Hulk has never shown the ability to keep up with something like that. Heck, Ang Lee Hulk had trouble keeping up 3 mutated dogs. Unless of course you want to claim these dogs also had super speed.
Speaking of dogs, the poodle didn't have enough strength to smash through a car's windshield and yet Hulk had trouble with it.
Now on to Avenger's Hulk which you claimed is the strongest. If we are to assume your computation on the Leviathan punch measures in the thousands of tons, then Hulk should have been able to completely smash Loki through the floor when he slammed him multiple times. This Hulk should have been able to launch cars with a flick of his finger. He never did any of these, which makes me question where we got the thousands of tons number from.
We do not actually know the mass of the leviathans or what kind of force is necessary to get one to flip. Remember that Hulk was unable to completely stop the momentum of one.
And then there are the exotic vampire abilites. From sensory deprivation to making hallucinations to pain inducement to earthquake powers, etc.
As for Edward straining with the tree, it took him a second to push it down. I did say he did it pretty effortlessly, not completely effortlessly. That's still a good feat showing that he didn't really struggle with.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Yes, there is a massive speed advantage. Because even though Hulk backhanding that rocket was a good speed feat, that rocket travels in a straight trajectory towards Hulk. It is not intelligent enough to avoid being swatted away nor is it capable of making complex maneuvers to confuse Hulk. It's the same reason why baseball players may easily catch and hit a baseball but will have trouble catching a fly. The vampires are able to perform complex maneuvers at super speed, Hulk has never shown the ability to keep up with something like that. Heck, Ang Lee Hulk had trouble keeping up 3 mutated dogs. Unless of course you want to claim these dogs also had super speed.Speaking of dogs, the poodle didn't have enough strength to smash through a car's windshield and yet Hulk had trouble with it.
Now on to Avenger's Hulk which you claimed is the strongest. If we are to assume your computation on the Leviathan punch measures in the thousands of tons, then Hulk should have been able to completely smash Loki through the floor when he slammed him multiple times. This Hulk should have been able to launch cars with a flick of his finger. He never did any of these, which makes me question where we got the thousands of tons number from.
We do not actually know the mass of the leviathans or what kind of force is necessary to get one to flip. Remember that Hulk was unable to completely stop the momentum of one.
And then there are the exotic vampire abilites. From sensory deprivation to making hallucinations to pain inducement to earthquake powers, etc.
It proves that Hulk has considerable superhuman speed as I don't see any human capable of casually swatting anything moving at Mach 1.3. And how fast exactly were the vampires moving anyway? Were they even moving considerably faster than Hulk did as he evaded the gunships? Complex maneuvers are fine and all, but they would still need to come at Hulk at a straight line to optimize their speed and to get thru Hulk's huge reach advantage and need to come at him in large enough numbers to overcome his strength. He doesn't need to swat them all, just enough of them to prevent their numbers from overcoming him while shaking off those already on him. As the scenario goes, tactically speaking, Hulk has too many things going for him that can offset whatever advantage their maneuverability gives them. Unless you're saying that they'll just play keepaway til Hulk gets bored/tired?
We do not use low end showings when determining what a character is capable of. Especially a composite one (as those tend to get best of worlds showings). Hulk has shown super speed in easily quantifiable showings. I do not know if the dogs had superspeed or not, but I don't need to prove that they do as Hulk has already shown that he quantifiably does in other showings. And we use MCU Hulk for strength showings, cancelling out the dogs' low strength showing into irrelevance.
Here is the computation on the Leviathan punch someone did: https://forums.marvelheroes.com/discussion/175660/any-official-sizes-on-chitauri-leviathans-from-the-avengers-movie
He seems to put it at 3000 tons. Which, btw, alreay considered the distance/time it took to stop the Leviathan in its tracks. Lemme know where his math was off as I am simply basing it off this.
And the Loki smash was actually consistent with this. Concrete has a compression strength of 4400-6000 PSI. Creating a man-sized crater would mean impact forces in the thousand+ ton range.
Character showings tend to be inconsistent so him not always looking like he is exerting 1000 ton strength isn't really a good basis of where his strength would be on the top end.
That is, of course, assuming this is composite Hulk.
I already acknowledged that exotics would work. So that is not under debate atm.
Effortless, by definition, means no effort. Him doing it quickly does not mean he did it effortlessly. Strain was evident in his face. I can push over a much larger guy than me if I put all my strength into it, it won't take longer than a second but it still needed me to put everything I had in it. And the problem still exists that we don't know how much strength it would take to push over a tree.
Originally posted by FrothByteMarcus pull down a helicopter that was stationary and was caught off guard and it took him two hands and more than one try whereas Cap pull down and kept a helicopter clearly intended to take off and go in the opposite direction in which he was pulling. Capt definitely had the more difficult task. You trying to downplay that feat is laughable.
First off, I don't consider Marcus or Selene the strongest vamps (mostly because I don't recall most of their feats) but let me address your point about helicopters.First of all, Cap did not stop that chopper with just one hand. He used both hands, one of was holding on to a fixed structure. Braced against a fixed structure. Let that settle in for a second. Marcus on the other hand pulled down a helicopter without grabbing on to anything. That is a lot harder. Also, there's a huge difference between pulling down a helicopter and just stopping it from taking off. Cap did not cause the helicopter to crash, that was Winter Soldier crashing the helicopter. Cap only stopped it from taking off, he wasn't strong enough to bring it down.
Please tell me what Vamps in Twlight are stronger than Marcus or Selena?
Originally posted by FrothByteHere you go again. I provide legitimate feats and videos to back up my statements and you make statements with no backing. A normal hits sends what Vamps flying dozens of meters? Or is it humans? Please provide examples. Unless the Frost Giants that Thor was sending flying and crushing are nothing to you. Thor was able to affect a Hulk and stop his punch with one arm initially that could contend with Abom and Ultron. Also a Hulk that smash and alien ship with one hit.
Now, watch some of the fight scenes of the twilight vampires. They can jump a hundred feet through the air and their normal hits send their opponents flying dozens of meters through the air. Compare that to Thor, he doesn't jump that powerfully nor does he send his opponents flying as casually, at least not without Mjolnir.
Yet he was strong enough to turn Hulk 360 with a single punch. As far as strength feats go, the vamps actually have better strength feats than Thor, and yet Thor was already strong enough to hurt Hulk even without Mjolnir.
Originally posted by FrothByteHere we go with the tree again. Lets go with that silly comparison. So the majority of Vamps can perform this feat? I would like you for a change to list some strength or power feats from the Vamps in Twlight universe since you are so high on this universe and say I never saw the movies.
I also don't think you understand just how hard it is to uproot a tree. Someone posted some physics about it some time ago, I don't recall now, but I'm pretty sure it was quite a few tons. And though that's not as heavy as a tank, it's close enough that Hulk won't be able to take on too many vampires with that kind of strength. Take note that Edward put little effort into pushing that tree whereas Hulk had to gain momentum to throw that tank like he did.Plus there's no getting around the fact that no one on the MCU team can even lay a hand on the vampires. They're just too fast.
LOL that Hulk had to gain momentum because he wanted to play and swing the tank around before tossing it like a toy.
LOL, Here are the best fight scenes from Twilight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU5L4YSZXSk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qpWh3d_qd0
There is nothing remotely within these videos that show the Vamps are two fast or strong for the Hulk, Thor, or Abom. Vamps were out from being slammed into concrete heads taken of like nothing.
Team would knock off the heads of the Vamps with easy. Oh and Jasper abilities didn't seem to help him or anyone else in the battle. Nothing in the those videos show super or superior speed to someone who is able to outrun bullets and missiles.
Originally posted by Kotor3
LOL, Here are the best fight scenes from Twilight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU5L4YSZXSk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qpWh3d_qd0There is nothing remotely within these videos that show the Vamps are two fast or strong for the Hulk, Thor, or Abom. Vamps were out from being slammed into concrete heads taken of like nothing.
Team would knock off the heads of the Vamps with easy. Oh and Jasper abilities didn't seem to help him or anyone else in the battle. Nothing in the those videos show super or superior speed to someone who is able to outrun bullets and missiles.
Really? Show me Thor or Hulk moving or reacting anywhere near this fast:
Originally posted by Kotor3
LOL, Here are the best fight scenes from Twilight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU5L4YSZXSk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qpWh3d_qd0There is nothing remotely within these videos that show the Vamps are two fast or strong for the Hulk, Thor, or Abom. Vamps were out from being slammed into concrete heads taken of like nothing.
Team would knock off the heads of the Vamps with easy. Oh and Jasper abilities didn't seem to help him or anyone else in the battle. Nothing in the those videos show super or superior speed to someone who is able to outrun bullets and missiles.
Not being facetious, but who out of the MCU group can outrun bullets and/or missiles?
Originally posted by FrothByte
Really? Show me Thor or Hulk moving or reacting anywhere near this fast:
I think we've made our peace, Froth. It's a beatdown for the Twilight/Underworld universes vs 4 MCU characters, one of which has two massive tools in his arsenal (Thor's flight and AoE attacks) taken from him. Again, let Thor go all out, then we have a way different battle on deck.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Honestly, after watching the latest Underworld film, I'd put current Selene as the fastest person in this thread. After her latest amp, if she decides she actually wants to move quickly, she is so fast it almost seems like she is teleporting, even relative to other Underworld vampires and lycans.
Wow. I haven't seen Blood Wars. I'm only up to date as of Evolution/Rise of the Lycans-ish in the universe timeline.