Gremmy vs Kaguya Ootsutsuki

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
Technically he does not, only limited by his imagination which is limited by his psyche. He could do anything. He literally encapsulated Kenpachi into the gravity of space. Kaguya can manipulate the environment but it seemed to be limited by her own greed of chakra which she seems to be limited by in her own statements. Are you trying to imply that there is no limit to Kaguya?

Technically he does since he showed he needed to increase his strength and was exhausted at times as well.

No i am not implying that cuz I ain't you.

Gremmy lost to Kenpachi, Kaguya absolutely shit kicks him.

Originally posted by Trocity
Gremmy lost to Kenpachi, Kaguya absolutely shit kicks him.

He won't simply kill himself with his own power in a battle without PIS

And Kenpachi is nothing to Kaguya.

The kid has obvious limits. Get distracted and his ability wades. Unable to imagine something happening and he's ****ed. Not to mention he admits he needs a clone to double his power in order to face Kenpachi, even admitting Kenpachi was that much above his own power that he needed to imagine himself at that level. A thought that ultimately did him in for he could not see himself being that strong.

If his weaker hax failed on Ken, Bunny will be fine. Splitting and dripping a meteor is ineffective as Madara did the same thing, the guy who can merge with the power of 9 beasts more powerful than himself and still be nothing to her. The second he wishes to be as strong as her he effectively kills himself.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I'm not mad, I'm just advising you to kill yourself. It's a good idea.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta

I agree with the suicide thing too.

Not cool at all.

But she just doesn't show herself as being that strong at all. She continuously doubts her own ability to fight and is worried constantly. She doesn't even engage is physical combat beyond a single attack and retreat over and over. She seems to just manipulate the environment and hope that kills or distracts them so she can sneak attack and escape. That wont work in a fight where reality can instantaneously and continuously be changed. She can't even kill or keep the two primary targets that are capable of doing anything to her from doing anything against her. She just seems pathetically weak honestly which is why this part of the arc is just dumb to begin with.

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
Gremmy can make anything with his imagination. Kaguya doesn't even engage Naruto through out most of the encounter in melee effectively at all. She herself is worried about using up her chakra over and over again so she must have some sort of limit. Gremmy could only not defeat Kenpachi because he didn't understand the range of his limit and made himself weak because he doubted himself for a second and made his own doubt reality.

But she just doesn't show herself as being that strong at all. She continuously doubts her own ability to fight and is worried constantly. She doesn't even engage is physical combat beyond a single attack and retreat over and over. She seems to just manipulate the environment and hope that kills or distracts them so she can sneak attack and escape. That wont work in a fight where reality can instantaneously and continuously be changed. She can't even kill or keep the two primary targets that are capable of doing anything to her from doing anything against her. She just seems pathetically weak honestly which is why this part of the arc is just dumb to begin with.

Mind you, each of the two people she's fighting dealt with *multiple* meteorites ala what Gremmy made. And they're still outmatched.

Kaguya is burning extreme amounts of power. She doesn't want to waste it, but it's still far in excess of what Gremmy does.

People weaker than her show majorly more power than Gremmy does.

Also she's really not threatened by anything other than the seal jutsu. She did a world-wide jutsu and she's still aloof and comes across as very much in control of the situation.

Originally posted by BloodRain
And Kenpachi is nothing to Kaguya.

The kid has obvious limits. Get distracted and his ability wades. Unable to imagine something happening and he's ****ed. Not to mention he admits he needs a clone to double his power in order to face Kenpachi, even admitting Kenpachi was that much above his own power that he needed to imagine himself at that level. A thought that ultimately did him in for he could not see himself being that strong.

If his weaker hax failed on Ken, Bunny will be fine. Splitting and dripping a meteor is ineffective as Madara did the same thing, the guy who can merge with the power of 9 beasts more powerful than himself and still be nothing to her. The second he wishes to be as strong as her he effectively kills himself.

He doesn't have to wish to be as strong as her. He simply needs to turn her bones into cookies (which he would do if PIS is not allowed)

Originally posted by Blazing Storm
Based on nothing. We dont even know Kenpachi's upper limits

Not 'based on nothing,' based on the fact that what we've seen her do is massively bigger.

We can assume his max limit is, say, 10x what we've seen, and he's still outpowered by Sasuke and Naruto, let alone Kaguya.

He doesn't have to wish to be as strong as her. He simply needs to turn her bones into cookies (which he would do if PIS is not allowed)

Forgetting she has rinnegan absorption powers (which should work fine on spiritual powers, it only doesn't work on power that comes from nature)? Or massive regen powers?

He wasn't even able to do that on Kenny. He's rather outmatched here.

And there's the matter she can just mind zap him and put him in infinite tsukiyomi.

No, based off feats. He's received his greatest boost and it delivered an island level feat. We can't assume more based on nothing, we don't know what more he has if he does. So based on the best we know about him, he's only above Madara's level.

Nowhere is it said that he created a clone in order to think about treo things at once. What is said is that he /power/ is doubled in order to preform his greatest tech. Former doesn't even make sense as it's unreasonable to think a person can't think about two things at once, as at any moment he's thinking about himself having a body (seeing as he's just a brain) while performing his feats. Need a a clone to do what Madara does.

It's not Plot, it's him. /He/ can't imagine these thiings on Ken because he is unable to picture it on such a powerhouse. So good luck cookiefying the Bunny when her power trumps beasts with blasts greater than that meteor.

Almost sympathetic towards BlazingStorm because of the abuse he was given early in the thread.

Kaguya still wins though. Faster, stronger, more durable, and smarter. Gremmy is utterly outclassed in basically every category except having a sort of haxy move.

I don't understand where you guys get faster or stronger at all >.< She literally hasn't really done ANYTHING she just makes the environment change and teleport people away. She hasn't even killed anyone. >.< Her attacks are hit and run showing that she is obviously trying to avoid hand to hand. She has some serious limit. We don't even know if she really is stronger than Madara, she just drained and tricked him. If she can't immediately kill Naruto one on one than she obviously is as weak as Madara because Madara couldn't even kill him yet dealing with both of them at once.

She deflected Sasuke's Susano'o sword which is stronger than Kenpachi's Shikai(and Gremmy couldn't even really handle Kenpachi's sealed Zanpakuto). She's reacted to Sasuke and Naruto on several occasions(though Naruto when enraged was able to blitz her), which makes her faster than Gremmy has ever been shown to be. Naruto and Sasuke could have been killed multiple times by her had she not wanted to absorb their chakra in the beginning.

Neither Sasuke nor Naruto have the ability to fight Kaguya alone. Even together they would likely have lost had it not been for Obito. And either Sasuke or Naruto could take Gremmy apart.

At their current state, Naruto or Sasuke could destroy any form of Madara.

Thats because Susano is chakra not a physical attack. Gremmy has control over both fields of reality, especially physical which apparently is her weakness. >.> And you both just made assumptions that are not argued here. We only know what her abilities are we've seen and so far its VERY limited.

Gremmy was able to reproduce the gravity and vacuum of space around a person instantaneously and turn peoples bones to cookies 😐 I highly doubt that Naruto and Sauske would be able to handle that as none of it was an actual attack that was dodgable. It was reality being altered completely.

Originally posted by Q99
Not cool at all.

I'm sorry everyone, particularly Blazing Storm. 🙁

I saw Gremmy getting tired. He has limits.

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
Thats because Susano is chakra not a physical attack. Gremmy has control over both fields of reality, especially physical which apparently is her weakness. >.> And you both just made assumptions that are not argued here. We only know what her abilities are we've seen and so far its VERY limited.

Gremmy was able to reproduce the gravity and vacuum of space around a person instantaneously and turn peoples bones to cookies 😐 I highly doubt that Naruto and Sauske would be able to handle that as none of it was an actual attack that was dodgable. It was reality being altered completely.

That does not invalidate the showing. Sasuke's Susano'o is stronger than anything Gremmy has ever shown.

Gremmy could turn their bones into cookies. Too bad they're faster than he can think. The limits of imagination.

You talk about how Kaguya hasn't done much but the elephant in the room is Gremmy is frankly less impressive. All he's done is send a volley of things at Kenpachi that were all ineffective. His ability to open a tear in space is something Kaguya does casually. The only thing Gremmy has done that is noteworthy was maybe killing Yachiru. Compared to enslaving humanity this is paltry.

Originally posted by AuraAngel
That does not invalidate the showing. Sasuke's Susano'o is stronger than anything Gremmy has ever shown.

Gremmy could turn their bones into cookies. Too bad they're faster than he can think. The limits of imagination.

You talk about how Kaguya hasn't done much but the elephant in the room is Gremmy is frankly less impressive. All he's done is send a volley of things at Kenpachi that were all ineffective. His ability to open a tear in space is something Kaguya does casually. The only thing Gremmy has done that is noteworthy was maybe killing Yachiru. Compared to enslaving humanity this is paltry.

Gremmy was shown for like 15 minutes but the open endedness of possibility in terms of altering actual reality. Not changing matter but creating mass from nothing. Literally changing what exists at its core to something else and breaking laws of physics and matter. Kaguya just manipulated what was there. Making rock lava and it really cold isn't altering existence. She traveled into other parts of the same reality through another dimension using lots of chakra. >.>

How can you be faster than thought? If they are his target before they even know hes there their bones are broken which is what occurred to Yachiru pretty much. >.< All he would have to imagine was himself faster than them or them moving at a snails pace then brains to yogurt. >.< He lost because he wanted to outstrength a guy who was boasting arrogantly but didn't realize that you cannot out-limit something that doesn't know its own limit and it psyched him out which is his weakness sure but Kaguya has a limit she knows of and doesn't go beyond it out of fear.

Tear in literal space >.< Not a random teleport to some other place/dimension that is not the same. Literal gravity well of space >.<

He imagined himself unhurt, you don't think he can imagine himself not tired?

Originally posted by RaventheOnly
Gremmy was shown for like 15 minutes but the open endedness of possibility in terms of altering actual reality. Not changing matter but creating mass from nothing. Literally changing what exists at its core to something else and breaking laws of physics and matter. Kaguya just manipulated what was there. Making rock lava and it really cold isn't altering existence. She traveled into other parts of the same reality through another dimension using lots of chakra. >.>

How can you be faster than thought? If they are his target before they even know hes there their bones are broken which is what occurred to Yachiru pretty much. >.< All he would have to imagine was himself faster than them or them moving at a snails pace then brains to yogurt. >.< He lost because he wanted to outstrength a guy who was boasting arrogantly but didn't realize that you cannot out-limit something that doesn't know its own limit and it psyched him out which is his weakness sure but Kaguya has a limit she knows of and doesn't go beyond it out of fear.

Tear in literal space >.< Not a random teleport to some other place/dimension that is not the same. Literal gravity well of space >.<

He imagined himself unhurt, you don't think he can imagine himself not tired?

And so what? Are we to give Gremmy the nod over a much more powerful character based on what he could do, rather than what he is likely to do? Gremmy is a cocky git who spends too much time talking and never uses his power to the fullest potential.

Being faster than thought is actually pretty easy and something Naruto and Sasuke can accomplish. As can Kaguya.

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