My point Lord Stark is that any increase in power or feats that fails to put him above Vitiate, Yoda, and Sidious are not good hype if those feats were clearly not above them in the first place. If that's the case then nothing really changes. And if Revan gets a feat that is above them by this point, then that is also unsuitable wank for them seeing as there is nothing showing their superiority to him as far as raw character>character statements go.
Originally posted by Selenial
Can someone explain why everyone rates the HoT so highly?
Defeating a top tier force user tends to do that.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
My point Lord Stark is that any increase in power or feats that fails to put him above Vitiate, Yoda, and Sidious are not good hype if those feats were clearly not above them in the first place. If that's the case then nothing really changes. And if Revan gets a feat that is above them by this point, then that is also unsuitable wank for them seeing as there is nothing showing their superiority to him as far as raw character>character statements go.
And I'm telling you Vitiate being stated to be the most powerful force user in galactic history does indeed do that. Until there's a statement (i.e. "Revan is as powerful as the Emperor/ Revan has surpassed the Emperor) that stands canon wise. Its the same thing with pretty much every other top tier.
Originally posted by Selenial
Can someone explain why everyone rates the HoT so highly?
Here is my respect thread. The Hero appears to be the greatest TOR era Jedi by far (not counting Revan, though the Hero is likely greater), resisted Sel Makor in the Dark Heart and defeated Vitiate.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Here is my respect thread. The Hero appears to be the greatest TOR era Jedi by far (not counting Revan, though the Hero is likely greater), resisted Sel Makor in the Dark Heart and defeated Vitiate.
Greatest Jedi =\= Tier 1.
Resisting Sel Makor is likely due to an incredible connection to the Light Side, others have done it, even Voss.
Killing Vitiate? She killed him after he'd exhausted his power in a ritual. In a potent Dark Side Nexus, sure, but if that's your reasoning, you have to put The Exile up there for defeating Traya on Malachor too....
Originally posted by Selenial
Killing Vitiate? She killed him after he'd exhausted his power in a ritual. In a potent Dark Side Nexus, sure
Well thats why its an extremely impressive achievement. On even ground, it would be mission impossible.
but if that's your reasoning, you have to put The Exile up there for defeating Traya on Malachor too
😆
You're not serious are you?
Originally posted by Selenial
Greatest Jedi =\= Tier 1.Resisting Sel Makor is likely due to an incredible connection to the Light Side, others have done it, even Voss.
Killing Vitiate? She killed him after he'd exhausted his power in a ritual. In a potent Dark Side Nexus, sure, but if that's your reasoning, you have to put The Exile up there for defeating Traya on Malachor too....
I never said Tier 1. The HoT is no Luke. She might be a Yoda though.
Resisted his direct influence in the heart of his power? I can't think of any who have. And if they did, I'm reasonably sure they had to perform that ritual to even go into the Dark Heart without going insane. As far as I can recall the Hero just strolls in and tells Sel Makor to go fawk himself. Which is impressive considering Sel Makor is like, a galaxy level threat.
Traya doesn't compare to Vitiate at all though. Sorry, but it's da truth. Although yes, I would put the Exile on a high tier because of that feat. I've always seen her as equal to Revan speaking merely in comparison to Kotor's 1 and 2. But the Hero is superior to Revan and her. Vitiate had been weakened, but he had also recovered quickly whilst the Hero had to do a lot of fighting to get to him and was stated to have weakened herself in the Lightside version.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I never said Tier 1. The HoT is no Luke. She might be a Yoda though.Resisted his direct influence in the heart of his power? I can't think of any who have. And if they did, I'm reasonably sure they had to perform that ritual to even go into the Dark Heart without going insane. As far as I can recall the Hero just strolls in and tells Sel Makor to go fawk himself. Which is impressive considering Sel Makor is like, a galaxy level threat.
Traya doesn't compare to Vitiate at all though. Sorry, but it's da truth. Although yes, I would put the Exile on a high tier because of that feat. I've always seen her as equal to Revan speaking merely in comparison to Kotor's 1 and 2. But the Hero is superior to Revan and her. Vitiate had been weakened, but he had also recovered quickly whilst the Hero had to do a lot of fighting to get to him and was stated to have weakened herself in the Lightside version.
Weakened herself by Sith Standards, strengthened her connection to the Light by Jedi standards.
Let's not forget here that Vitiate was also dealing with controlling the First Son, his defeat and the mind war that the two had would have cost Vitiate a lot of power.... Like, a lot.
And yes, a Weakened Vitiate on DK would have the same strength as Traya in the heart of Malachor with prep. And of course an intimate knowledge of her opponent.
I'm speaking solely in combat prowess here, Blades, Force offense etc.
Originally posted by Selenial
Weakened herself by Sith Standards, strengthened her connection to the Light by Jedi standards.Let's not forget here that Vitiate was also dealing with controlling the First Son, his defeat and the mind war that the two had would have cost Vitiate a lot of power.... Like, a lot.
And yes, a Weakened Vitiate on DK would have the same strength as Traya in the heart of Malachor with prep. And of course an intimate knowledge of her opponent.
I'm speaking solely in combat prowess here, Blades, Force offense etc.
Nah, dissipating your energy weakens you no matter it you're light or dark.
I don't think Vitiate needs to consciously control the First Son, the dude is a separate entity who is merely connected to the Emperor via his implanted essence. And I don't know anything about a mind war. So I don't think losing him would have cost Vitiate much or anything in the way of power.
Nah. Weakened Vitiate is still > Traya. Plus the Dark Temple is comparable to Malachor. Also Vitiate did have knowledge about the HoT, having fought her previously, watched her fight with Scourge, dominated her mind and had her trained by his minions.
Solely combat prowess, Traya was disadvantaged with her missing hand. So Meetra could have just rushed her and cut off her other hand in pure lightsabers. Meanwhile Vitiate fought the Hero in an "apocalyptic battle" despite the Hero starting with her lightsaber a foot from his face. Vitiate is also much more powerful than Traya and much more knowledgeable in the Dark Side.
Originally posted by Selenial
Also, I know you didn't call her tier 1 but others did, and that's what sparked my question.
Well I do still put her as one of the top 3 Jedi of all time. So she does get a lot of hype from me. She is practically confirmed as being more powerful than Revan based on a number of accolades and the fact Vitiate sensed that in the final duel she was too powerful for him to mentally dominate while he freely busted out the mind-cannon for Revan.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I never said Tier 1. The HoT is no Luke. She might be a Yoda though.Resisted his direct influence in the heart of his power? I can't think of any who have. And if they did, I'm reasonably sure they had to perform that ritual to even go into the Dark Heart without going insane. As far as I can recall the Hero just strolls in and tells Sel Makor to go fawk himself. Which is impressive considering Sel Makor is like, a galaxy level threat.
Traya doesn't compare to Vitiate at all though. Sorry, but it's da truth. Although yes, I would put the Exile on a high tier because of that feat. I've always seen her as equal to Revan speaking merely in comparison to Kotor's 1 and 2. But the Hero is superior to Revan and her. Vitiate had been weakened, but he had also recovered quickly whilst the Hero had to do a lot of fighting to get to him and was stated to have weakened herself in the Lightside version.
Below Yoda. She's not that far off though. (It's starting to catch on.)
Too long to post off my phone, but yeh, The First Son was combatting Vitiates mind influence during HOT's fight with the emperor, (or at least, close to it)
Syo managed to break free of his will and restore Barsen'thors energy.
This would have weakened his own, forcing the Emperor to grant him more power to combat a revitalized Jedi, because he really needed to keep the children masked.
I don't really think thats right. I can't recall anything about Vitiate showing any awareness about the fight or being directly involved. Syo was fighting the First Son's will, not Vitiate's. If Vitiate had been watching and felt it was necessary to amp the Son he would have possessed him like he did Kira.