Naw, Bran is right. In DC especially at the time the antimatter from AM killed anything it touched. There wasn't a specific weakness that was just what happened to all but a select few simply because it destroyed any normal matter that it made contact with.
since it isn't a specific weakness you'd have to prove Blue Marvel's antimatter is anywhere near the level of the Anti-Monitor to use his power as evidence.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
So... Thor level?Though you can bump a Thor vs BM thread and see what the Thor fans make of it.
I am a Thor fan and most people consider Thor and Superman peers. Well BM us Superman soaked in antimatter energy. I don't think it puts him a tier higher, but it gives him a nice edge.
Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Naw, Bran is right. In DC especially at the time the antimatter from AM killed anything it touched. There wasn't a specific weakness that was just what happened to all but a select few simply because it destroyed any normal matter that it made contact with.since it isn't a specific weakness you'd have to prove Blue Marvel's antimatter is anywhere near the level of the Anti-Monitor to use his power as evidence.
No, I really wouldnt. Who died and made AM the standard? And again, would antimatter disintegrate Superman in comics?
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
No, I really wouldnt. Who died and made AM the standard? And again, would antimatter disintegrate Superman in comics?
you guys did when you used him as evidence for Blue Marvel being able to mess PC supes up.
That version of Anti-monitor would as he used the power to disintegrate entire universes. So unless you want to argue Blue Marvel would do the same you're argument has no base. Because that is the power you are comparing it to. Superman wasn't vulnerable to Anti-matter the entire dc universe was being killed by it =/
Originally posted by Lek Kuen
you guys did when you used him as evidence for Blue Marvel being able to mess PC supes up.That version of Anti-monitor would as he used the power to disintegrate entire universes. So unless you want to argue Blue Marvel would do the same you're argument has no base. Because that is the power you are comparing it to
Now you are twisting things. BM does not want to destroy the universe assuming he could. He sort of like a good guy so don't expect him to be depicted similarly. Secondly did AM punch SM in the chest? If he did, did Superman die? I'll wait.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
And Sentry started off fighting whole groups of heroes. Blue Marvel did... ?
Sentry from the very start was supposed to be the most powerful hero. Blue Marvel from the very start was supposed to be a Thor level being. Difference.What? I'm not talking about the gauntlet. I'm saying that Blue Marvel doesn't hit harder than Hulk and thus shouldn't effect him. I don't care about the placement.
What?
The issue with that is EVERY being outside a select few was vulnerable to anti matter. It wasn't because it was a weakness, it was because it obliterates matter. Which King Hyperion was. Only durability and select abilities protected people. There's actually an event about it funnily enough.
But if BM's AM was the same as AM's AM then Hyperion wouldn't have a head. Unless Hyperion is more durable than the entirety of DC.I fully realize I can be wrong in the future. Never denied it. Which is why I'm actually relying on existing evidence to form my conclusion. You know, if BM stays at the same level of power and doesn't get an outrageous bump in power from what he's shown?
With that said, acting like he can only get more powerful is worse to believe than if he stays the same. You can't play future cards against me when it's easily as applicable to you.I never said universal blasts were needed to harm Superman. I said that BM should be able to kill almost any DC opponent due to his power. And AM wasn't devastating because of its size. A universal sized AM wave is going to be just as devastating to Superman as a bear sized blast of AM. Which is my point. AM no matter the size is /was lethal. Whether AM drops a house sized blast or a universal sized blast on a Wonder Woman it's still going to have the same potency. Which SHOULD be true of BM too. If he's firing off human sized waves following COIE he should be disintegrating human sized holes in pretty much anything. But he's not. Is he now?
Assuming the potency of BM's power based off COIE and say Galactus isn't going to work when all his shit has shown is that it's basically an energy attack. He ain't done shit to make me believe he seriously effects Superman with it. Ain't shit.
But if you'd like you can show me otherwise with BM scans. 🙂
And Sentry was also KO'd by a fed up Blue Marvel. What does that say about his power? I guess that's not enough for you? What is he supposed to do exactly to impress you? It seems like he has to outdo every character in Marvel in order for you to stop low balling him, if that is indeed what you are doing. Seems like it to me, with you saying that he hasn't done shit.
Again if you didn't understand what I said. In comparison to the Savage Hulk, and Blue Marvel, they do not have the same power set, nor was PC Superman invulnerable to everything. In other words PC Superman may not be as hurt by the Hulk's punch as he would be to Blue Marvels, because he was shown to be vulnerable to antimatter. Adam has antimatter powers, you saying whatever it is that you are will not change that, and Superman was vulnerable to antimatter which was my point.
Are you having a problem comprehending that or something? If not I don't see why it would be a stretch for you to understand why I brought up the idea that Adam would be able to affect a guy that was said to be and shown to be vulnerable to antimatter?
The entire DC universe was vulnerable to antimatter at that time, which is the premise of this thread. "PC" get it? Pre effing Crisis. Are you still with me? At this point I really can not tell. PC characters are/were not Marvel characters, and they were vulnerable to antimatter, while Marvel characters were not. The Blue Marvel has antimatter powers. Do you need proof of this as well, or did you not realize this before I brought it up? What PC characters were vulnerable to, does not mean that present day Marvel characters are as well.
Since we know that PC Superman was vulnerable to antimatter, it is not hard, or outrageous to imagine that he would be vulnerable to the Blue Marvel's powers. If you somehow do not understand why I am saying this say so, but at this point I'm pretty tired of trying to explain it, because I'm sure that you understand why I'm saying it, and are simply attempting to be contrary for whatever reason it is that you are being this way.
Re: Re: Pre Crisis Superman plants, sticks his chest out.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Good way to start a gauntlet.But anyway.
1. Nothing
2, This might work actually. Like what DS said.
3. Nothing
4. Death
5. A good chance of nothing
6. Nothing
7. He likely gets moved, unless going by high end showings only
8. Anti-matter from Blue Marvel ain't shit
9. I want to say nothing... so I will. He gets moved by the theory of the IMP, not so much by the feats of it though IMO.
This sounds about right IMO
Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Naw, Bran is right. In DC especially at the time the antimatter from AM killed anything it touched. There wasn't a specific weakness that was just what happened to all but a select few simply because it destroyed any normal matter that it made contact with.since it isn't a specific weakness you'd have to prove Blue Marvel's antimatter is anywhere near the level of the Anti-Monitor to use his power as evidence.
Antimatter is antimatter. If I see a mouse I'm not going to call it a cat. In that era antimatter had a huge effect on PC Superman. This is the guy being used in this thread, not King Hyperion, or Thor, or DCnU Superman. The guy that was vulnerable to antimatter should be vulnerable to Blue Marvel's power. I think Bran is thinking too hard about something simplistic, that has more to do with power set than actual strength, or punching power.
Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
I am a Thor fan and most people consider Thor and Superman peers. Well BM us Superman soaked in antimatter energy. I don't think it puts him a tier higher, but it gives him a nice edge.
I get what Bran is saying though. He's saying that you can't compare AM antimatter to Blue Marvel's. That's like saying Cyclops Optic blast is equal to Superman's heat vision or in better terms, Thor magic is equal to Odin. Just because Thor and Odin both possess magical abilities doesn't mean the power level of both of their attacks, even if similar, will have the same affect, unless, you have fts. When it comes to Blue Marvel Anti Matter, it really isn't that great ft wise which again is what Bran is asking you for. We can't say this is powerful because of its name...some fts got to come with it. AM anti matter would have turned King Hyperion to dust but when BM used it against Hyperion, it damaged him, but it didn't cause him any physical harm. Remember, the anti matter from AM was melting people with a touch, high end people.
Does BM have fts like this? He really doesnt. You can't use the argument that he's never used it because he has on many of occasions and the results are usually the same. You can't say he can control the frequency of his antimatter without providing proof. What appears to be going on here is that we are giving fts to BM that he has not earned yet and we all know it doesn't work like that. Just because antimatter is something that has been stated as an ability, he does need the fts. That's like me saying "Hulk is stronger than everyone in the Universe because it has been stated that he has unlimited anger". I'll never win that debate. Last comment on this because I like Blue Marvel, I just think people are looking at him wrong (even though he has an amazing track record).
Originally posted by carver9👆 Pretty much.
I get what Bran is saying though. He's saying that you can't compare AM antimatter to Blue Marvel's. That's like saying Cyclops Optic blast is equal to Superman's heat vision or in better terms, Thor magic is equal to Odin. Just because Thor and Odin both possess magical abilities doesn't mean the power level of both of their attacks, even if similar, will have the same affect, unless, you have fts. When it comes to Blue Marvel Anti Matter, it really isn't that great ft wise which again is what Bran is asking you for. We can't say this is powerful because of its name...some fts got to come with it. AM anti matter would have turned King Hyperion to dust but when BM used it against BM, it damaged him, but it didn't cause him any physical harm. Remember, the anti matter from AM was melting people with a touch, high end people.Does BM have fts like this? He really doesnt. You can't use the argument that he's never used it because he has on many of occasions and the results are usually the same. You can't say he can control the frequency of his antimatter without providing proof. What appears to be going on here is that we are giving fts to BM that he has not earned yet and we all know it doesn't work like that. Just because antimatter is something that has been stated as an ability, he does need the fts. That's like me saying "Hulk is stronger than everyone in the Universe because it has been stated that he has unlimited anger". I'll never win that debate. Last comment on this because I like Blue Marvel, I just think people are looking at him wrong (even though he has an amazing track record).
Carver isn't on my ignore list, and he is wrong. If PC Superman was vulnerable to antimatter, he would be vulnerable to Blue Marvel's antimatter powers. It's like the Juggernaut being strong against most things except for magics, and TP assault. Not sure what's so hard to understand about this? The Antimonitor lost much of his potency when later seen when he became a member of the Sinestro sqaud. This alone should show that PC Superman, and that entire era of character's and their universe was more susceptible to antimatter than they became later on. Again we are talking about a character of that era, and to compare them with present era characters is an error. They were simply made of different stuff, and should be considered entirely different characters which they are.
Originally posted by Stoic
Antimatter is antimatter. If I see a mouse I'm not going to call it a cat. In that era antimatter had a huge effect on PC Superman. This is the guy being used in this thread, not King Hyperion, or Thor, or DCnU Superman. The guy that was vulnerable to antimatter should be vulnerable to Blue Marvel's power. I think Bran is thinking too hard about something simplistic, that has more to do with power set than actual strength, or punching power.
Anti-matter is portrayed in varying power levels throughout comics (much like entropy). Here is PC Superman surviving planet-busting anti-matter missile point blank in Superman #205 (the reason is attributed to Superman having a "super matter body"😉
http://i.imgur.com/WL7OmKY.jpg
Superboy did the same in Superboy #244.
Yet, we know that Superman can't survive Anti Monitor's anti-matter waves. Because he was literally destroying whole universes with them.
Originally posted by operator616
Anti-matter is portrayed in varying power levels throughout comics (much like entropy). Here is PC Superman surviving planet-busting anti-matter missile point blank in Superman #205 (the reason is attributed to Superman having a "super matter body"😉http://i.imgur.com/WL7OmKY.jpg
Superboy did the same in Superboy #244.
Yet, we know that Superman can't survive Anti Monitor's anti-matter waves. Because he was literally destroying whole universes with them.
Okay you showed me a bomb in the form of a rocket which Superman stated nearly tore him apart. From the very start of this thread, never once did i say that the Blue Marvel was the equivalent of the Antimonitor. I wasn't the one who brought him into this, and as a matter of fact, I asked "Wasn't PC Superman vulnerable to antimatter?" I then said at the very least that Blue Marvel would light him up. When did light him up turn into destroy him? When was Blue Marvel only as powerful as a rocket filled with antimatter, when he was stated to be a stable reactor of the stuff, or whatever is stated in his bio? Go back and see what I said. I simply disagree with him having no effect on a guy that was stated to be vulnerable to antimatter, and Blue Marvel's powers derive from antimatter. Are we on the same page?
Originally posted by operator616
Anti-matter is portrayed in varying power levels throughout comics (much like entropy). Here is PC Superman surviving planet-busting anti-matter missile point blank in Superman #205 (the reason is attributed to Superman having a "super matter body"😉http://i.imgur.com/WL7OmKY.jpg
Superboy did the same in Superboy #244.
Yet, we know that Superman can't survive Anti Monitor's anti-matter waves. Because he was literally destroying whole universes with them.
Well, I guess this ends that debate. Good scan operator.
Originally posted by operator616
Anti-matter is portrayed in varying power levels throughout comics (much like entropy). Here is PC Superman surviving planet-busting anti-matter missile point blank in Superman #205 (the reason is attributed to Superman having a "super matter body"😉http://i.imgur.com/WL7OmKY.jpg
Superboy did the same in Superboy #244.
Yet, we know that Superman can't survive Anti Monitor's anti-matter waves. Because he was literally destroying whole universes with them.
You mean one depiction is not the end all be all in comics? Wow, who would have known? 🙄
Thanks dude. Maybe these guys will get back to the fundamentals of debating comic book powers because once Bran spoke, some people's comic IQ's took a nose dive.
The bottom line is this: PC Superman was NOT completely invulnerable like I said. He HAS been hurt by antimatter and BM, even without charging himself with antimatter, PROVED he is capable of KOing Sentry and knocking him in space, a character Bran claims is a tier above BM (based on nothing, of course). The idea that a charged BM punch would have no effect on PC Superman is laughable at best.
