Pre Crisis Superman plants, sticks his chest out.

Originally posted by Stoic
He's right, I brought up Am as in antimatter, not the Antimonitor. He brought up the Antimonitor top raise the stakes, and make it seem like a stated something that I never did. it's what people do when they are wrong, and too small to admit it. They then attempt to slide their shit onto you. If you're soft headed enough like a few on this board are, it works, if not, they run to plan B, and so on.

Amen. I wonder if, since Branlor admitted he was wrong about DC antimatter, if he will go back and do the gauntlet again. I appreciated that he actually did it while all these other guys weighing in simply leached on.

Oh, and where the FUC did Carver go?? "I-I know what Branlor is saying......[Did I do good, Lord Branlor?] Then he declares the debate over and dips!! 😘

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Considering you specifically named COIE, the event where everyone was being killed by Anti-monitor using antimatter. It's pretty obvious you were bringing him up. Or why name drop his storyline specifically and state about it proving your case?

I specifically brought it up to show that Krytonians were vulnerable to antimatter. it was never meant to compare BM to the Antimonitor, nor was i the one that began comparing the two.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
It was said REPEATEDLY throughout that story arc that I own that Thanos was weakened from the sleep state. What do you think that means?

Lets say you're struck with a bad case of the flu.. You'll be seriously weakened, lethargic, and maybe even barely able to stand.

But your basic "durability", like the hardness of your bones and muscle tissue's will remain the same.

For a human being, being in a weakened state means a lot in a fight.. But this is friggan Thanos we're talking about. If Thor ran up to him in this weakened state and hit him with everything he's got, I doubt he'd do any real damage.

Originally posted by Stoic
I specifically brought it up to show that Krytonians were vulnerable to antimatter. it was never meant to compare BM to the Antimonitor, nor was i the one that began comparing the two.

Except that you did just that several times

Originally posted by Stoic
I specifically brought it up to show that Krytonians were vulnerable to antimatter. it was never meant to compare BM to the Antimonitor, nor was i the one that began comparing the two.

Correct, you did not compare Anti monitor to Blue Marvel. It would be great if the people who actually did that actually took responsibility.

Oh, and thanks everyone for not acknowledging my correct assumption that PC Superman would not be killed by DC antimatter. The missile scan proved me right.

Originally posted by cdtm
Lets say you're struck with a bad case of the flu.. You'll be seriously weakened, lethargic, and maybe even barely able to stand.

But your basic "durability", like the hardness of your bones and muscle tissue's will remain the same.

For a human being, being in a weakened state means a lot in a fight.. But this is friggan Thanos we're talking about. If Thor ran up to him in this weakened state and hit him with everything he's got, I doubt he'd do any real damage.

Thanos was weakened. It never states to what degree, or even compares it to having the flu. His entire being was likely weakened. As I said he survived far worse, and remained intact. So unless that grenade had more punch than a star which is actually where antimatter comes from, it should have also destroyed the GOTG in the process. Pretty simple really, or at least I think it is. Thanos was weak as hell during that scene.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Except that you did just that several times

No he did not say that BMs antimatter would disintegrate Superman, he said it would "light him up." Are you really going to lie when the quote is in the thread?

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
No he did not say that BMs antimatter would disintegrate Superman, he said it would "light him up." Are you really going to lie when the quote is in the thread?

He said he wasn't comparing them or using him as his point. So yeah he did just that

Originally posted by Stoic
When did I say that he was going to evaporate PC Superman when I said that he would light him up? You're one to talk, do you recall how you rated this gauntlet? When did Ironfist ever show the power that you seemingly gave him in this thread? i said that Adam would light him up. Maybe you don't understand what that means, but when i said it, I meant that he would be knocked for a loop, at the very least. When at that point did you get evaporate? I'm not understanding why you are comparing the Hulk to Blue Marvel, when they do not have the same power set? i never said that he hits harder than the hulk, but that he possesses a power that PC Superman was vulnerable to. Again do you have trouble understanding this?

Originally posted by Stoic
It would destroy PC Superman according to what it was capable of in that era.

When didn't Iron Fist show the power is the real question.

You said "light him up" but you were basing your entire logic on COIE. Which had AM absolutely crushing anything it hit. Do you understand how bad that comes off?

Because he doesn't hit harder than Hulk even with his amps. It's a comparable example. Especially moreso when you considering AM being everybody's weakness, which you continue to only attribute to Superman. Superman is no more vulnerable to it than King Hyperion would be. Yet he still hit him with it.

What you're doing is acting like BM anti mattering his hands acts as a weakness for Superman and therefore it's more damaging. What you're doing is acting like he's wrapping his hands in magic. But considering anti matter is no more Superman's weakness than Hyperion's, that type of notion makes no sense. Even with the wrapped hands he is still not showing any more sort of damage than what Hulk is capable of.

Originally posted by Stoic
No I was guessing that you were complaining about the gauntlet, because the hulk was at a lower peg than the Blue Marvel. If this was not what was on you mind so be it, who cares anyways. I never placed BM on AM's level either. You were the one that began comparing the two. I only kept saying that if PC Superman was vulnerable to antimatter that Blue Marvel should be able to light him up. Should I explain what light him up means again?

But you compared it to the events of COIE:

Originally posted by Stoic
Wasn't Superman and other Kryptonians vulnerable to antimatter during the Crisis of Infinite Earths?

IE, you compared it to AM.

I think we all know what your "light him up means".

Originally posted by Stoic
No again. What I said was that PC anything was stated to be highly vulnerable to antimatter. Don't tell me that i said things that I didn't. And since when was PC Superman greater than anyone, and everyone in DC? Did I ever say any of that? You better go back and look at the OP, because what I understood, was PC Superman was going to be standing there, and taking a fully powered hit from the people in the gauntlet while bracing. Check you own shit out before going thought mines. Look at what you said about number 4. Ridiculous!

Originally posted by Stoic
It would destroy PC Superman according to what it was capable of in that era.

I agree, Iron Fist is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Stoic
I keep saying vulnerability because it was stated that antimatter could affect him. Not like a weakness like Kryptonite. Stop playing word games, I know fully what the words mean, which is why i chose vulnerability. Operator just made it clear that antimatter did not in fact tear through any and everything. Check the scan.

And anything can effect Superman... if it's on the right level. That isn't a vulnerability, it's called "the other guy is really ****ing powerful".

I checked it. Either again, that's a special case like BM, or it's a sliding scale of power. And where do you think the guy who hasn't destroyed shit with it fall?

It really doesn't matter if AM varies in power, or if it stays the same and BM is just pathetic with it. Either I'm wrong on one aspect in one part, or I'm right. But the end point stays the same. Blue Marvel is still pathetic with it. And either point you choose, you're still going to have to break out the BM scans to defend him, as opposed to defending him with other sources. In fact if anything, AM varying in power hurts way worse against BM than just BM being a special shitty case. Because it severs the connection to other cases completely and utterly.

But again, either way. He's still not hurting PC Superman with it.

Originally posted by Stoic
If he has no feats, then Koing the Sentry must have been nothing Despite Doom being humbled by him in seconds. King Hyperion wasn't a feat? Nearly breaking the moon in two with a medal isn't a feat either I guess?

This like I said before has nothing to do with striking power, or strength, but as I keep stating, on power set. BM's power derives from antimatter, and PC Superman was vulnerable to it. Meaning it could hurt him. What you said about BM was that he would basically do nothing to PC Superman. I disagree.

Well, both of them have to do with strength and striking power considering anti matter didn't knock Sentry into space and anti matter was nowhere to be seen in the moon feat.

And you seem to be under the impression I think Blue Marvel is weak. He isn't. He's a Thor/Hulk level being. The issue is that you could literally take away his origins of AM and nothing about him would change assuming his power stayed the same. His AM is rather meaningless tbh. It does nothing for him. He could have the power cosmic and nothing would change.

It's just that his anti matter blasts or punches on their own seem to add dick all besides energy applications. They are basically energy fists or blasts. And considering Superman doesn't have a weakness to them (which you yourself admitted), you would then have to prove the raw power of them instead of proving the anti and matter of them.

Which is what my entire argument has been about. Which is what my entire discussion of Hulk has been about. His power with them aren't on the level to "light Superman up". If you take away the AM origins then you'd be damned pressed to prove anything of value for him. And considering you want to go to the sliding degree of power angle for AM, then that makes it even less comparable to any other AM showing in comics. There's no reason it's anymore than just some energy attack at that point.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
No cutey, I think that when you have MORE OF something explosive, it tends to do more damage. And I find it HILARIOUS that you now want to judge BM by his own merit when before, AM was the standard........until the scans of PC Superman getting raped by an antimatter missile popped up.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Because it's just an amped punch with the words "anti-matter" peppered into it with no connection to what anti-matter has accomplished in the hands of others. If it was purely anti-matter he would have obliterated Sentry and King Hyperion with it.

There's no reason it should be stronger than a Hulk punch based on feats.

Hence:
Anti-matter from Blue Marvel ain't shit

I've always wanted to judge BM based off his own merits. Like... the whole reason I asked for feats of him evaporating things was to judge him off his own merits. In fact I repeatedly stated such.

It's like talking to a tree who has mental retardation. I'll just reply to Stoic from now on. You're too stupid and trollish.

Originally posted by cdtm
Lets say you're struck with a bad case of the flu.. You'll be seriously weakened, lethargic, and maybe even barely able to stand.

But your basic "durability", like the hardness of your bones and muscle tissue's will remain the same.

For a human being, being in a weakened state means a lot in a fight.. But this is friggan Thanos we're talking about. If Thor ran up to him in this weakened state and hit him with everything he's got, I doubt he'd do any real damage.

So in other words, let's say Thanos was sick? The comic didn't say he was sick, he said weakned. And I think Thor would do all kinds of damage to a weakened Thanos.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
Except that you did just that several times

And who brought up the Antimonitor? My entire argument on the entire thing was that Adam should be able to light a guy up that was said to be vulnerable to antimatter. Do you understand this, or should I say it in some way that you will? It was later shown that antimatter had varying degrees of potency in PC DC, and was corrected, but it still had an effect on PC Superman to the point that he says that it nearly destroyed him.

Originally posted by Stoic
And who brought up the Antimonitor? My entire argument on the entire thing was that Adam should be able to light a guy up that was said to be vulnerable to antimatter. Do you understand this, or should I say it in some way that you will? It was later shown that antimatter had varying degrees of potency in PC DC, and was corrected, but it still had an effect on PC Superman to the point that he says that it nearly destroyed him.

By example of Antimonitor with the basis if the universe buster effected him the same way he affected 90% of people blue marvel would. You can deny it all you want but you did. You are just trying to deny it because it was a bad argument.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
He said he wasn't comparing them or using him as his point. So yeah he did just that

He did not compare them, so hes right. You for some reason are making shit up.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
By example of Antimonitor with the basis if the universe buster effected him the same way he affected 90% of people blue marvel would. You can deny it all you want but you did. You are just trying to deny it because it was a bad argument.

When did I say that BM was as powerful as the Antimonitor? Show me this.

Originally posted by Stoic
When did I say that BM was as powerful as the Antimonitor? Show me this.

I can't but I can show you stating several times that Antimonitor effecting him is proof that Blue marvel would. And saying how because antimatter is antimatter his feats with it don't matter because of COIE. Also known as the event where a guy beat with his overwhelming power and not a specific weakness.

Bran quoted them above, but if you want to keep claiming we are lying about your own comparisons and "evidence" I can too

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
When didn't Iron Fist show the power is the real question.

You said "light him up" but you were basing your entire logic on COIE. Which had AM absolutely crushing anything it hit. Do you understand how bad that comes off?

Because he doesn't hit harder than Hulk even with his amps. It's a comparable example. Especially moreso when you considering AM being everybody's weakness, which you continue to only attribute to Superman. Superman is no more vulnerable to it than King Hyperion would be. Yet he still hit him with it.

What you're doing is acting like BM anti mattering his hands acts as a weakness for Superman and therefore it's more damaging. What you're doing is acting like he's wrapping his hands in magic. But considering anti matter is no more Superman's weakness than Hyperion's, that type of notion makes no sense. Even with the wrapped hands he is still not showing any more sort of damage than what Hulk is capable of.

Right, so exactly what I said?

But you compared it to the events of COIE:

IE, you compared it to AM.

I think we all know what your "light him up means".

I agree, Iron Fist is ridiculous.

While comparing it to COIE.

And anything can effect Superman... if it's on the right level. That isn't a vulnerability, it's called "the other guy is really ****ing powerful".

I checked it. Either again, that's a special case like BM, or it's a sliding scale of power. And where do you think the guy who hasn't destroyed shit with it fall?

It really doesn't matter if AM varies in power, or if it stays the same and BM is just pathetic with it. Either I'm wrong on one aspect in one part, or I'm right. But the end point stays the same. Blue Marvel is still pathetic with it. And either point you choose, you're still going to have to break out the BM scans to defend him, as opposed to defending him with other sources. In fact if anything, AM varying in power hurts way worse against BM than just BM being a special shitty case. Because it severs the connection to other cases completely and utterly.

But again, either way. He's still not hurting PC Superman with it.

I never said he has no feats. I get it, he's very strong. I said his anti matter has shit for feats. There's a difference.
He's hitting people with his high level strength and anti matter. I don't get how we're attributing that more to his anti matter than strength, even if.
And nearly breaking the moon in half is so much not a feat for anti matter it's ridiculous. At least with Sentry we can assume his off panel hit was wrapped in anti matter. With the moon one? No

Well, both of them have to do with strength and striking power considering anti matter didn't knock Sentry into space and anti matter was nowhere to be seen in the moon feat.

And you seem to be under the impression I think Blue Marvel is weak. He isn't. He's a Thor/Hulk level being. The issue is that you could literally take away his origins of AM and nothing about him would change assuming his power stayed the same. His AM is rather meaningless tbh. It does nothing for him. He could have the power cosmic and nothing would change.

It's just that his anti matter blasts or punches on their own seem to add dick all besides energy applications. They are basically energy fists or blasts. And considering Superman doesn't have a weakness to them (which you yourself admitted), you would then have to prove the raw power of them instead of proving the anti and matter of them.

Which is what my entire argument has been about. Which is what my entire discussion of Hulk has been about. His power with them aren't on the level to "light Superman up". If you take away the AM origins then you'd be damned pressed to prove anything of value for him. And considering you want to go to the sliding degree of power angle for AM, then that makes it even less comparable to any other AM showing in comics. There's no reason it's anymore than just some energy attack at that point.

I've always wanted to judge BM based off his own merits. Like... the whole reason I asked for feats of him evaporating things was to judge him off his own merits. In fact I repeatedly stated such.

It's like talking to a tree who has mental retardation. I'll just reply to Stoic from now on. You're too stupid and trollish.

So you want a feat even though several feats were given to you pages ago, and I'm the troll? I tell you what you animated turd, show me a feat of an antimatter missile evaporating PC Superman since now you want evaporation or nothing. The feats are there, you just want to lowball them. Just to recap, Antiman was owning a Mighty Avengers team that included Ironman, Sentry, Wonderman, Ms. Marvel and Ares. Blue Marvel told them to fall back and shitcanned the herald buster. Now, I'm sorry if all you can say to that is "I am Groot", but that IS a feat for BM. As is beating down Hyperion, as is kicking Pagan's ass. Those scans put you in an intellectual coma. Evaporation.... 🤨

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
I can't but I can show you stating several times that Antimonitor effecting him is proof that Blue marvel would. And saying how because antimatter is antimatter his feats with it don't matter because of COIE. Also known as the event where a guy beat with his overwhelming power and not a specific weakness.

Bran quoted them above, but if you want to keep claiming we are lying about your own comparisons and "evidence" I can too

Yeah, uh, crazy people's evidence is not that same as normal people's evidence. I don't expect you to know that difference at this point, but I'll try once more. When did he compare BM to Antimonitor? Here's a lifeline- he didn't. Ah! Stop whining, he didn't compare them and you are 100% wrong, THE END.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
I can't but I can show you stating several times that Antimonitor effecting him is proof that Blue marvel would. And saying how because antimatter is antimatter his feats with it don't matter because of COIE. Also known as the event where a guy beat with his overwhelming power and not a specific weakness.

Bran quoted them above, but if you want to keep claiming we are lying about your own comparisons and "evidence" I can too

Man, pluck him, he's not even interesting. Now, on the other hand, Branlor wants "evaporation" feats. If you don't have those, you are toast. 😆

Bran, once again I will say what I thought, and it is not up for interpretation. Pre Crisis Krytoniams were said to be vulnerable which I am using as the word to express their physical relationship to a form of energy that can hurt them, and not using it in terms of it being a weakness of theirs like Krytonite is. If they are vulnerable to antimatter, because it can hurt them, i believe that the Blue Marvel can also hurt PC Superman, which is what I meant when i said that it could light him up. Not evaporate him like you began to say. This is not something that i ever stated. You stated this. Do not slide that bullshit my way. If a rocket filled with antimatter was able to make PC Superman say that it almost destroyed him in the scan presented by Operator, I do believe that the Blue marvel would indeed be able to light him up, since King Hyperion was not the weak scrub that you are trying to make him out to be. if you disagree with this fine, I will not try to stop you from whatever you believe, but do not attempt to tell me what it is that i was thinking, when i have told you what I was thinking several times already.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
I can't but I can show you stating several times that Antimonitor effecting him is proof that Blue marvel would. And saying how because antimatter is antimatter his feats with it don't matter because of COIE. Also known as the event where a guy beat with his overwhelming power and not a specific weakness.

Bran quoted them above, but if you want to keep claiming we are lying about your own comparisons and "evidence" I can too

No. You can't because this is not what I was saying. what i am saying, and said was that if antimatter could effect PC Superman, then the Blue Marvel would have an effect on him as well. I never meant to say that it would kill him, and at that point I may have been caught up in all of the BS surrounding something as simple as me stating that it would light him up. The Antimonitor was far more powerful than BM. i know this, and you know this. However was the rocket that nearly destroyed him that much more powerful than BM? Was it even as powerful as he is? Based on what he did on the Moon, i would say absolutely not.