Originally posted by Dreampanther
Pak states that the only way Superman would win a fight against Hulk would be if he could "diffuse the situation", in other words, calm him down, as Hulk is "strongest there is".Based on that, I would say that a haymaker from Hulk would definitely affect (not effect 😛 ) him.
Interview with Pak
Jurgens said that Superman would beat Hulk in seconds.
srug
Wow - nice scans! 😉 One of the reasons I first joined KMC way back was because of the scans everybody used to back up their arguments. One of the reasons I visit KMC less these days is because so many arguments just degenerate into schoolboy bickering, insults and name-calling. Good to see some old-school posters are still hanging around! 😛
Originally posted by krisblaze
Even an IMP wouldn't take down PC Supes.I did though, in the first post 🙂
True - I admit, I get confused with DC. In fact, apart from Grayson I don't think there is anything by DC I still read. Just a personal issue, but I don't see the need to keep destroying everything and rebooting the whole universe every couple of years. 😠
My apologies - will try and be more careful about which DC universe character we are discussing! 😄
Originally posted by abhilegend
Well Jonathan Hickman, Dan Jurgens and PAD say differently. And I woul take their words above a fanboy like Pak every day of the weak.Jurgens said that Superman would beat Hulk in seconds.
srug
Wizard writers are such fanboys.
I bet they were pissed not one writer voted against Supes.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Lulz @ a scan of ultraman being used against Superman. Or Iron fist and savage hulk being able to stop Superman. Guess Captain Marvel isn't magical.Or he didn't tank magical lightning from Zeus.
But yeah, just because its called "anti-matter", Blue Marvel can do anything with it.
🙄
And then there's the time he practically killed by a single stroke from a magic axe in the 1980's Phantom Zone story. Or when stopped by a simple spell in Amethyst's world. Or was nearly blasted to atoms in that story where he was split into two Supermen, only surviving thanks to his super speed diluting the effect. Or when he was almost killed by Skeletor..
Originally posted by Stoic
True, but let's ignore everything else I said. Why didn't you jump in at that time? My last post came from a false realization, and I did not know that Superman could take even a little antimatter. You showed me something that I did not know. However your scan says that Superman was nearly destroyed by that rocket. Do you believe that, that rocket is more powerful than the Blue Marvel? If that rocket could make him say what he did, how much more would the Blue Marvel do to him?
I didn't ignore anything else you argued. Your argument is based on a false realization of anti-matter in general. You continually argued that all anti-matter are the same (don't make me quote your posts again). I clarified that there are different levels of anti-matter. Otherwise you might as well start arguing that Destroyer's power output is greater than Anti-Monitor's. Because Kang's anti-matter screen failed to so much as scratch Thor's Mjolnir in Avengers v1 #8, yet at that same time period (in the mid 60s) the Destroyer managed to actually break Thor's hammer in JiM #118 (there were other instances where i recall that same thing, but id rather use the one from the relevant time period). So obviously, Destroyer > Anti-Monitor. Right?
There are more examples out there of course, Reed once used an anti-matter gun to shut Franklin's mind and cancel the universal power which was building inside of him (in FF #141), other times, we have someone like Thunderbird surviving an anti-matter bomb in an arc of Exiles. Etc... the list goes on.
Well, i never particularly argued about that point nor do i care to, but since you asked: Considering that the missile was intended to destroy the whole planet instantly? Um yes i do believe that it's more powerful than Blue Marvel's.
On a side note, did you actually buy into the muffin scan? Lol, covers tend to be misleading and the actual comic contains absolutely nothing of the sort (meaning it's irrelevant). And considering that it's a 1940s comic, one could just as easily argue it was Earth-two Superman, though i don't care about that.
Anyway, my whole point here is that there are different levels of power concerning anti-matter, hence why using Anti-Monitor's anti matter waves and passing it off as if it's equal to any other anti-matter attack, is wrong (And i already provided the evidence).
Thinking on terms of black and white is a cognitive rigidity.
Anti-matter from BM is not the same as the Anti matter portrayed in COIE.
Anti-matter in COEI cause a domino effect BM's does not even come close to the same scale and/or effect
This is the same as thinking ALL super speed is equal or ALL super strength is equal
Originally posted by abhilegend
Lulz @ a scan of ultraman being used against Superman. Or Iron fist and savage hulk being able to stop Superman. Guess Captain Marvel isn't magical.
Just want to comment on Cap's magic specifically:
Collector's edition 58 actually reinforces the magic weakness. Cap specifically thinks to exploit it with his magic lightning. He only abandoned the attack, because Shazam told him to continue fighting (For unspecified reasons, but likely because defeating Cap was the only way to snap him out of his altered mental state)
Originally posted by Dreampanther
True - I admit, I get confused with DC. In fact, apart from Grayson I don't think there is anything by DC I still read. Just a personal issue, but I don't see the need to keep destroying everything and rebooting the whole universe every couple of years. 😠My apologies - will try and be more careful about which DC universe character we are discussing! 😄
It's a DC fanboy control mechanism for the writers. The environment was considered unsafe due to all the excessive wanking, so measures must be taken.
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Thinking on terms of black and white is a cognitive rigidity.Anti-matter from BM is not the same as the Anti matter portrayed in COIE.
Anti-matter in COEI cause a domino effect BM's does not even come close to the same scale and/or effect
This is the same as thinking ALL super speed is equal or ALL super strength is equal
That point was made long ago, but dumb ass Bran continues to refer to "BMs antimatter" as if it's something different. It's still Antimatter just like the what was in the missile.
Originally posted by operator616
I didn't ignore anything else you argued. Your argument is based on a false realization of anti-matter in general. You continually argued that all anti-matter are the same (don't make me quote your posts again). I clarified that there are different levels of anti-matter. Otherwise you might as well start arguing that Destroyer's power output is greater than Anti-Monitor's. Because Kang's anti-matter screen failed to so much as scratch Thor's Mjolnir in Avengers v1 #8, yet at that same time period (in the mid 60s) the Destroyer managed to actually break Thor's hammer in JiM #118 (there were other instances where i recall that same thing, but id rather use the one from the relevant time period). So obviously, Destroyer > Anti-Monitor. Right?There are more examples out there of course, Reed once used an anti-matter gun to shut Franklin's mind and cancel the universal power which was building inside of him (in FF #141), other times, we have someone like Thunderbird surviving an anti-matter bomb in an arc of Exiles. Etc... the list goes on.
Well, i never particularly argued about that point nor do i care to, but since you asked: Considering that the missile was intended to destroy the whole planet instantly? Um yes i do believe that it's more powerful than Blue Marvel's.
On a side note, did you actually buy into the muffin scan? Lol, covers tend to be misleading and the actual comic contains absolutely nothing of the sort (meaning it's irrelevant). And considering that it's a 1940s comic, one could just as easily argue it was Earth-two Superman, though i don't care about that.
Anyway, my whole point here is that there are different levels of power concerning anti-matter, hence why using Anti-Monitor's anti matter waves and passing it off as if it's equal to any other anti-matter attack, is wrong (And i already provided the evidence).
What your problem is, and several others that seem to have a problem in understanding what they read, is that I never placed the Blue Marvel's power output on the level of AM's are you still with me? If so stop acting as if you did not understand. I said that he should be able to light him up. Do you understand that? I also said that if his antimatter is the exact same antimatter as the antimatter of the DC PC antimatter, that it would have and should have an effect on PC Superman. Did you understand that? The scan that you provided specifically stated that the rocket that hit Superman of that era was, and had an effect on him. Please go back and quote me, because I also stated that I didn't know that DC regarded the energy in different levels, and was under the impression that it was highly destructive to the very fabric of the DC Universe, and everything consisting of matter within it. So before you start quoting shit, you had better get a full picture. Do you understand that? If I am coming off condescending, there is a reason for it. People take one statement and attempt to run with it, while ignoring everything else said. If you are another one of these people doing this, I would suggest reading the entire thread over, and coming to the realization that all i was saying was that if Blue Marvel has antimatter, and it was shown to be a vulnerability of PC Superman's that it should/would light him up. Light him up meaning that it should daze him, Not kill him, or evaporate him. Are we clear? As far as i am concerned i was done with this thread last night before I crashed, and have no idea why it is so hard to understand a simple phucking sentence?
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Do you think "anti matter defense" is some sort of built in invulnerability or something?
And the Anti Monitor of a few years ago wasn't full of an unlimited amount of universes. His anti matter was still ****ing shit up though.
Anyway, to address the whole "anti matter vulnerability in Marvel". A couple years Korvac (although weakened) gets beat again with anti matter. The interesting thing here is that he states it could destroy the entire dimension:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Cosmic/16ac.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Cosmic/17ac.jpgAlso yes, "Achilles heel", but it wasn't really. It was just powerful enough to do it. Also made irrelevant considering what Korvac thinks of the potential of it.
Which is in reference to this particular story where an anti matter core annihilates Red Skull with the Cosmic Cube:
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Raw%20power/Tech/CA_v3_019_15b.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Raw%20power/Tech/CA_v3_019_16a.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Raw%20power/Tech/CA_v3_019_17a.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Raw%20power/Tech/CA_v3_019_17b.jpgWhich to briefly address that peon Vet, is why I was asking for evaporation feats from BM. Because that's what AM is supposed to do. Evaporate shit.
And I highly doubt they had some sort of vulnerability besides it being just powerful shit. Let alone Hyperion having some better defense against it because *shrug*
PC Superman getting hit by a muffin was a cover of a comic... I think Vulcan beat Gladiator on the cover of the comic where Gladiator ****ing eye gouged the shit out of him
He was vulnerable in the same way Vet is vulnerable of getting loads blown on his chin. It's not a weakness, but it's going to happen.
I never said BM was a weakling, in fact I repeatedly stated he was Thor level in this thread. Unless he has magic, that doesn't make for a PC Superman beater.
Look at Mr "I have better things to do" bigshot over here. Well I just had some ribs, so eat my butt.
Give up Bran, they don't even understand your point.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I like your complete inability to read. This has already been addressed in depth. But keep repeating it like you have a point. I want to see the tears well up in your butt as you yell at the wall asking why it's a wall. Maybe your next question can pertain to if I think BM can hurt Superman. Surely that hasn't been discussed either.But anyway, I think everyone important agrees that Blue Marvel doesn't do shit. Ain't shit to PC Superman. I'm glad that detour has been soundly closed off.
Lol!!!! Did you really just refer to everyone important? Who is that, you and the two chimps on your Yugioh team? All that gas trapped in you head has to have given you a headache.
Yeah, I'm going to ask the question again because you never answered it. Either you don't have the answer, you don't like the answer or you are hiding and extra set of lips inside your red briefs. You see, this a man's world and a man debate via point/acknowledgement/counterpoint. I'm telling you this because you don't know. Now, when I raise the point that an antimatter missile hurt PCS by referencing on panel proof, it's then time for you to acknowledge the point before constructing a counterpoint. The problem is you have yet to pass GO or even remove you hands from your eyes.
I know you arent used to dealing with someone who doesnt blindly accept your bullshit or who doesn't become dazzled by your Thursday night stand up comedy act, but if you have any hope at all of winning a REAL debate you'll speak to the well established point I made earlier, which is that PCS can be hurt by small levels of antimatter. To summarize, you were shown proof of a small amount of antimatter shit stomping PC Sups. It is my contention that BMs easily produces a comparable amount of antimatter with his charged fist punches and therefore would hurt PCS with such a punch. Before you respond, grow some chin hair and acknowledge the validity of the scan. If you can do that, your balls have a chance to descend in a couple of years.
Originally posted by Stoic
What your problem is, and several others that seem to have a problem in understanding what they read, is that I never placed the Blue Marvel's power output on the level of AM's are you still with me? If so stop acting as if you did not understand. I said that he should be able to light him up. Do you understand that? I also said that if his antimatter is the exact same antimatter as the antimatter of the DC PC antimatter, that it would have and should have an effect on PC Superman. Did you understand that? The scan that you provided specifically stated that the rocket that hit Superman of that era was, and had an effect on him. Please go back and quote me, because I also stated that I didn't know that DC regarded the energy in different levels, and was under the impression that it was highly destructive to the very fabric of the DC Universe, and everything consisting of matter within it. So before you start quoting shit, you had better get a full picture. Do you understand that? If I am coming off condescending, there is a reason for it. People take one statement and attempt to run with it, while ignoring everything else said. If you are another one of these people doing this, I would suggest reading the entire thread over, and coming to the realization that all i was saying was that if Blue Marvel has antimatter, and it was shown to be a vulnerability of PC Superman's that it should/would light him up. Light him up meaning that it should daze him, Not kill him, or evaporate him. Are we clear? As far as i am concerned i was done with this thread last night before I crashed, and have no idea why it is so hard to understand a simple phucking sentence?
Yes you totally didn't place Anti-Monitor's am power output the same as BM's.
When you say things like "it's still Anti-matter, unless DC's is different than Marvel's":
Originally posted by Stoic
It's still anti-matter though, unless DC antimatter is somehow different than Marvel's antimatter.
.....what does this make me think? If you were in my position how would you interpret this statement? It obviously implies that you are saying that all anti-matter, are the same in terms of power level. Power level being the power output.
Lek Kuen asked you if you can prove BM's am is equal to AM's (something which you, nor anyone else for that matter, obviously can't):
Originally posted by Lek Kuen
That version of Anti-monitor would as he used the power to disintegrate entire universes. So unless you want to argue Blue Marvel would do the same you're argument has no base.
And what was your response to this?
Originally posted by Stoic
Antimatter is antimatter.
Again saying that all anti-matter, regardless of what it did, is the same.
I clarified that this is not the case. Simple. Because Superman survived a am planet-wrecking missile in Superman #205 while couldn't survive AM's.
Now, if you changed your opinion throughout the debate, that's fine with me and i don't have a problem with that at all. But saying that you never put BM's am on the same level as AM's when you blatantly did (continually saying that "anti-matter is anti-matter" implying that it's the same), that i do have a problem with. Don't burst in anger at me as if i can't comprehend your argument or something.
In regards to "light him up". My response came literally after you outright said that "it would destroy PC Superman". So i figured that throughout the debate you came to the (false) realization that any anti-matter could destroy Superman and passing AM's anti matter as if it is equal to everything else. So don't blame me for the response.
Anyway, im done here. Have a good day.
Originally posted by operator616
I didn't ignore anything else you argued. Your argument is based on a false realization of anti-matter in general. You continually argued that all anti-matter are the same (don't make me quote your posts again). I clarified that there are different levels of anti-matter. Otherwise you might as well start arguing that Destroyer's power output is greater than Anti-Monitor's. Because Kang's anti-matter screen failed to so much as scratch Thor's Mjolnir in Avengers v1 #8, yet at that same time period (in the mid 60s) the Destroyer managed to actually break Thor's hammer in JiM #118 (there were other instances where i recall that same thing, but id rather use the one from the relevant time period). So obviously, Destroyer > Anti-Monitor. Right?There are more examples out there of course, Reed once used an anti-matter gun to shut Franklin's mind and cancel the universal power which was building inside of him (in FF #141), other times, we have someone like Thunderbird surviving an anti-matter bomb in an arc of Exiles. Etc... the list goes on.
Well, i never particularly argued about that point nor do i care to, but since you asked: Considering that the missile was intended to destroy the whole planet instantly? Um yes i do believe that it's more powerful than Blue Marvel's.
On a side note, did you actually buy into the muffin scan? Lol, covers tend to be misleading and the actual comic contains absolutely nothing of the sort (meaning it's irrelevant). And considering that it's a 1940s comic, one could just as easily argue it was Earth-two Superman, though i don't care about that.
Anyway, my whole point here is that there are different levels of power concerning anti-matter, hence why using Anti-Monitor's anti matter waves and passing it off as if it's equal to any other anti-matter attack, is wrong (And i already provided the evidence).
Dude, there are NOT different "levels" of antimatter. If there is, then provide proof in comics. There are however different AMOUNTS of the stuff and that is true of any material, not to mention an element that trumps all of this, artist/writer interpretation. In the scan, the amount in the missile was enough to really fuc PCS over. The reason he didn't "evaporate" as Brans dumb ass put it is because Superman is made of super matter. This totally destroys Brans con man argument that all antimatter always destroys matter, therefore BMs antimatter "isn't shit." It's nothing more than biased, desperate rhetoric. Thanks for the scans, though.
