Runner/Silver Surfer vs Zoom/Flash

Originally posted by Philosophía
I'd really like you to prove that.

Yes. So? It's common sense that a stationary body has to accelerate to reach a certain speed, and Wally is no exception.
The problem is Wally can do that before either one on team 2 can blink.

Well Silver Surfer cannot harm or out power him at all. The only beings above Heralds are Thanos and Skyfather level beings. In a broad generalization.

Any reason why beings like Surfer (who can traverse the Universe in a few panels thus way FTL) or Runner cannot speed wise keep up with Wally's?

Any person on T1 can solo T2.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Runners aura immediately took effect on Surfer; the exact time frame was never specified however...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
And why is it asinine to question wether they could harm Runner or not?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Surfers attacks no effect on Runner; how would you rate Surfers attack power compared to Flash and Zoom? At best (and I honestly believe that they have less attack power than Surfer) equal..

Originally posted by CadenceV2
The only beings above Heralds are Thanos and Skyfather level beings.

Glad we clarified that.

Move along.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Runner's aura took effect on Surfer after a whole page of non-combat dialogue. He doesn't have that time here. Also, right after it took effect - Surfer had no problem fighting him. He didn't stop and say "hit me, Runner". So your non-applicable point would be moot, either way.

Because you're applying no-limits fallacy to Runner, based on nothing. Flash can hit with power to one-shot top tiers.

A random energy blast from Surfer? You're damn right that Wally hits harder at his best. Not only that, but Surfer was blatantly stated to be weakened the next issue.

1st thing, it didnt take that long for Runners aura to take hold on Surfer; Surfer had the thought bubble about feeling calm 2 panels after Runner shows up...

Runner was so fast that Surfer didnt even detect him coming, and as you know, Surfer has excellent cosmic awareness...

2nd, my questioning wether or not team speedforce could harm Runner or not is not based on "nothing." Its based on a character who some feel is the top dog of the Herald Tier being unable to harm Runner...

This would place Runners durability squarely in Trans territory (ie, Thanos level); as Cadence correctly pointed out...

As pertains the Surfer being weakened, the Surfer never stated such thing; Champion made that claim when Runner was bragging about beating Surfer to the other Elders...

According to Surfer, he called upon the power of the Power Cosmic, but the Runner was an Elder and was stronger than he was...

@Philosophia

And just to add on the Champions claim, it undoubtably stemmed from the fact that Surfer got the best of him two issue ago; Surfer didnt fight Runner until a full issue later, and there was no mention or nothing to indicate that Surfer was weakened...

And to restate, Surfer never said anything about being weakened when the Runner beat him...

Oh and here the exact scan where Runners aura 1st takes effect on Surfer:

Originally posted by Philosophía
So you're an idiot.

Glad we clarified that.

Move along.

That's prime debating right there 🙂 cannot argue against that 1st grade logic. lol.

@Philosophia

One more point on Runners aura, Surfer had to make a conscious effort to fight Runner because of Runners aura (Surfer still liked him even after being attacked by him) and Surfer has excellent TP resistance...

What are Wally and Hunters feats of TP resistance?

They'd better be good or the Runner is going to end them both in a hurry...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
1st thing, it didnt take that long for Runners aura to take hold on Surfer; Surfer had the thought bubble about feeling calm 2 panels after Runner shows up...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
my questioning wether or not team speedforce could harm Runner or not is not based on "nothing." Its based on a character who some feel is the top dog of the Herald Tier being unable to harm Runner...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@Philosophia

And just to add on the Champions claim, it undoubtably stemmed from the fact that Surfer got the best of him two issue ago; Surfer didnt fight Runner until a full issue later, and there was no mention or nothing to indicate that Surfer was weakened...

And to restate, Surfer never said anything about being weakened when the Runner beat him...

Originally posted by Philosophía
That's far longer than he has in this match. Ridiculously so. You can't seem to grasp how short a non-CIS/PIS fight is against Flash/Zoom. On the orders of [b]nanoseconds - while Surfer and Runner talked for at least a few seconds before the aura took effect. [/B]

"For context, an attosecond is to a second what a second is to about 31.71 billion years, or more than twice the age of the universe."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attosecond

so yeah, i understand why it may be difficult for some people to grasp such miniscule amounts of time. nevertheless, speed is what flash does.

anywho, IF the naysayers manage to comprehend the above, they are finally ready to begin comprehending zoom--who is so far beyond ANY member of the flash family, that they appear laughably slow in comparison. 🙂

I was being conservative. Maybe Flash and Zoom want to have a coffee mid-battle. And sleep. And read a book. Maybe visit a foreign country. Become monks. Learn the language. Become best friends. Come back..

...and still have time to do that a dozen times over.

👆

hell, jay garrick(the shittiest/slowest member of the flash family) said it best:

"The move buys me seconds. In my world, an eternity."

👆

Originally posted by Galan007
the flash family can perceive and react on an attosecond-by-attosecond basis:

[b]"For context, an attosecond is to a second what a second is to about 31.71 billion years, or more than twice the age of the universe."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attosecond

[/B]

If we're to take the Attosecond thing seriously then Flash is easily well above any High Herald toe to toe.

But it's hard to do that with his serious lack of "High Herald Stomping" feats.

What's more believable given actual combat feats is something like 1000 Imps in a second. Or Heck maybe a split second. But since he's never even done that (as far as I'm aware), there's no way to tell how tired he'd be after such a powerful attack combo, (however quickly it'd be done).

Anyway however fast and powerful he is toe to toe makes little difference against a guy like Surfer whose continuously floating around impossible for Flash to even reach. And who can just blow up the planet Flash is on if need be.

Originally posted by Insane Titan
Hunter and Wally

No pis/cis

Who wins

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
If we're to take the Attosecond thing seriously then Flash is easily well above any High Herald toe to toe.

But it's hard to do that with his serious lack of "High Herald Stomping" feats.

What's more believable given actual combat feats is something like 1000 Imps in a second. Or Heck maybe a split second. But since he's never even done that (as far as I'm aware), there's no way to tell how tired he'd be after such a powerful attack combo, (however quickly it'd be done).

Anyway however fast and powerful he is toe to toe makes little difference against a guy like Surfer whose continuously floating around impossible for Flash to even reach. And who can just blow up the planet Flash is on if need be.

I don't know how but Flash can run in the air, in space, etc. He really doesn't even need flight. Also, Flash would have closed the distance or stole Surfer's speed in the first attosecond. Thus Surfer wouldn't even get a chance to fly out of reach.

Originally posted by Galan007
the flash family can perceive and react on an attosecond-by-attosecond basis:

[b]"For context, an attosecond is to a second what a second is to about 31.71 billion years, or more than twice the age of the universe."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attosecond

so yeah, i understand why it may be difficult for some people to grasp such miniscule amounts of time. nevertheless, speed is what flash does.

anywho, IF the naysayers manage to comprehend the above, they are finally ready to begin comprehending zoom--who is so far beyond ANY member of the flash family, that they appear laughably slow in comparison. 🙂 [/B]

Hold that bad thought.

Imagine how fast Wally is, as per Galan's scan.

Here he is, AMPING himself just to TRY and get to Zoom's level:

And then, does THIS to the amped Wally:

He LEAVES the battlefield, runs to the city, checks up on Linda, all before an AMPED Wally can even perceive that he's gone.

Also, look at how Zoom treats his friends.

That friendly aura of the Runner will sure come in handy...

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't know how but Flash can run in the air, in space, etc. He really doesn't even need flight.

Got scans of him running in Space?

Originally posted by h1a8
Also, Flash would have closed the distance or stole Surfer's speed in the first attosecond. Thus Surfer wouldn't even get a chance to fly out of reach.

Doubt it.