Originally posted by One_Angry_Scotthat wasn't said , Eternity just said he would be a threat to the universe.
Surely that's not true? Who was writing that? Seems like an odd thing for a writer to make such a bold statement when most things point to that being wrong.(not directing this at you more to if that is true whoever wrote it)
Do you happen to have the scans by the way?
Originally posted by h1a8
the point is that the pg doesn't make any user invincible, otherwise we wouldn't get contradictions with drax and Thanos (he wasn't invincible either).Also we would get a no limits fallacy. Galactus, destroyer, and Odin wouldn't be able to beat a pg user through direct means
History
One of six Infinity Gems that grant its user control over reality. According to the most commonly accepted origin story the six gems were once part of an all-powerful being who committed suicide out of loneliness. Its power survived and manifested as six gems.
The red Power Gem gives the owner access to all power and energy that ever has or will exist, and can back the other gems and boost their effects. Its most basic powers grant its user unlimited stamina and can increase the user's strength to unlimited levels depending on how much the gem is drawn upon. It allows the user to duplicate practically any physical superhuman ability and become invincible. It can also be used as an unlimited power supply for any machine.
When the Illuminati attempted to use the Infinity Gauntlet to push away another universe that was colliding with Earth-616, the Power Gem shattered.
http://marvel.wikia.com/Power_Gem
The last sentence clearly shows that the Power Gem has gotten a retcon and we see the limits of it. This however shows far more power than either HP DD, or Owaw Superman brings to the table.
Originally posted by Stoic
HistoryOne of six Infinity Gems that grant its user control over reality. According to the most commonly accepted origin story the six gems were once part of an all-powerful being who committed suicide out of loneliness. Its power survived and manifested as six gems.
The red Power Gem gives the owner access to all power and energy that ever has or will exist, and can back the other gems and boost their effects. Its most basic powers grant its user unlimited stamina and can increase the user's strength to unlimited levels depending on how much the gem is drawn upon. It allows the user to duplicate practically any physical superhuman ability and become invincible. It can also be used as an unlimited power supply for any machine.
When the Illuminati attempted to use the Infinity Gauntlet to push away another universe that was colliding with Earth-616, the Power Gem shattered.
http://marvel.wikia.com/Power_GemThe last sentence clearly shows that the Power Gem has gotten a retcon and we see the limits of it. This however shows far more power than either HP DD, or Owaw Superman brings to the table.
Doesn't matter as being invincible implies infinite durability, which implies infinite power. If infinite power isn't drawn from the gem then the user is not wholly invincible. Each user draws power at different rates. Drax draws almost nothing per second, Champion draws faster only after he gets angry but slowly anytime else. A mad Thor draws also slowly as his feats after the pg were very similar to before, and he didn't manage to get out of the block in a decent amount of time.
We don't go by what we want a character to be and how we feel. We go by what happens on panel.
So, to prevent a no limit fallacy, we me use the highest things Thor got hit with as a measure of his durability.
That means OWAW Superman and HP DD would kill him in a few blows if not one blow.
Originally posted by h1a8
Doesn't matter as being invincible implies infinite durability, which implies infinite power. If infinite power isn't drawn from the gem then the user is not wholly invincible. Each user draws power at different rates. Drax draws almost nothing per second, Champion draws faster only after he gets angry but slowly anytime else. A mad Thor draws also slowly as his feats after the pg were very similar to before, and he didn't manage to get out of the block in a decent amount of time.We don't go by what we want a character to be and how we feel. We go by what happens on panel.
So, to prevent a no limit fallacy, we me use the highest things Thor got hit with as a measure of his durability.
That means OWAW Superman and HP DD would kill him in a few blows if not one blow.
You have yet to convince me that either DD or Superman has the ability to KO PG Thor, or Thanos. The probes that they were taking out were not trans level either, they were at best mid Herald to high Herald. You mention Thor being knocked around, but this did nothing to actually stop him. When did getting knocked around mean getting rocked? Eventually DD and Superman would be overtaken by PG Thor alone. It states that he was becoming more and more powerful as time went on. You can't really justify anything that you are saying. It said that Thor would have eventually been a universal threat. What was DD? Just because he beat the mess out of Darkseid, does not mean that he had the power to put PG Thor, or Thanos down. You also seem to be the one using no limits while accusing others of doing this.
Originally posted by Stoicusing the feats of a *complete IG*, as a means to try and 'prove' what an *individual gem* is capable of seems... horrendously faulty, to say the least.
When the Illuminati attempted to use the Infinity Gauntlet to push away another universe that was colliding with Earth-616, the Power Gem shattered.
http://marvel.wikia.com/Power_GemThe last sentence clearly shows that the Power Gem has gotten a retcon and we see the limits of it. This however shows far more power than either HP DD, or Owaw Superman brings to the table.
Originally posted by Galan007
using the feats of a *complete IG*, as a means to try and 'prove' what an *individual gem* is capable of seems... horrendously faulty, to say the least.
How does it seem faulty? They work in tandem, and the Power gem gives them a limitless boost, or at least to the point of repelling an entire universe. It just goes to show how much juice the Power Gem can add to another power source, or individual. Hopefully you will now see why it was that I quoted the citation, found on that wiki.
Originally posted by Insane TitanWe go by feats. This is OWAW Superman, not normal Superman.
h1 should be banned alone on the fact he thinks Superman or Doomsday could kill PG Thor in one shot.
Is that correct?
Originally posted by h1a8you go by speculation, nothing else and ignore post what shut your argument down.
We go by feats. This is OWAW Superman, not normal Superman.
Both were shattering probes like tissue paper with ease.
Do you think PG Thor is more durable than the probes?
If So then you obviously think that PG Thor can withstand a normal Superman's might without any damage for hours on end (Superman using all of his might).Is that correct?
Show any proof that shows Thor could be one shot killed by Superman or DD.
Thanos couldn't even harm Thor with several punches and blasts.
Originally posted by Galan007
because a COMPLETE IG preformed that feat, not just the power gem. srslyare we trying to attribute all of the IG's feats to the power gem alone now? lol, this is getting silly.
No and that's not what I said. The other gems draw their power from the power gem to become more potent. The only thing that's getting silly is the idea that you aren't understanding what I am saying. Forget the other gems for a moment, and concentrate on what the power gem does. Let's not turn the IG into a strawman is what I am saying here. The Power Gem was said in the story where Thor possessed it to have eventually made him a universal threat. You took the last part of the wiki, and are making more of it than need be, while ignoring the first part of it. Tell me that you aren't doing that?
Originally posted by Silent MasterSo Superman drilling his body through a probe with ease, Superman blasting through them with hv, or DD one hit shattering the shit out of one doesn't prove it?
Neither OWAW Superman or HP DD have the feats to justify saying that they can kill PG Thor with one blow....you are either massively low-balling PG Thor or massively exaggerating DD and Superman.
So PG Thor has durability showings on the level of not been affected by Superman using all his might for hours? In other words, you are suggesting that Superman can wail on PG Thor with all his might for hours and not do anything significant?
Originally posted by Insane TitanThanos is not as strong as normal Superman, and certain not OWAW Superman. I don't recall him hitting Thor with a blast though (although that's irrelevant since I'm claiming with physical attacks).
you go by speculation, nothing else and ignore post what shut your argument down.Show any proof that shows Thor could be one shot killed by Superman or DD.
Thanos couldn't even harm Thor with several punches and blasts.
Originally posted by h1a8Thanos punches as hard. You don't recall it because you've never read the comic.
Thanos is not as strong as normal Superman, and certain not OWAW Superman. I don't recall him hitting Thor with a blast though (although that's irrelevant since I'm claiming with physical attacks).
We are talking about Thor's durability amped by the power gem, so yeah all Thanos attacks not effecting him count.
Originally posted by Stoictell me why it matters what thor *might* have *eventually* become had he not been beaten? since when did hyperbole/empty statements become the end-all/be-all around here? stop with this no-limits fallacy nonsense.
No and that's not what I said. The other gems draw their power from the power gem to become more potent. The only thing that's getting silly is the idea that you aren't understanding what I am saying. Forget the other gems for a moment, and concentrate on what the power gem does. Let's not turn the IG into a strawman is what I am saying here. The Power Gem was said in the story where Thor possessed it to have eventually made him a universal threat. You took the last part of the wiki, and are making more of it than need be, while ignoring the first part of it. Tell me that you aren't doing that?
Originally posted by Galan007
tell me why it matters what thor *might* have *eventually* become had he not been beaten? since when did hyperbole/empty statements become the end-all/be-all around here? stop with this no-limits fallacy nonsense.
I never gave a no limit fallacy, I simply haven't seen anything to indicate DD or Superman being able to put Thor down. Or do they have no limits placed upon them? It should have been pretty clear to you when I cited the wiki, that I wasn't saying that the PG was limitless. If you look at the last portion of what I quoted from the wiki. There is a clear limit, but that limit is well above anything that DD or Superman showed on panel. So yes they were running through those probes, but Thanos was also taking hits from Odin, and recently a Cosmic Cube. I wonder why you haven't chimed in on h1 saying that Superman or DD would one shot kill Thor, or Thanos? So what exactly were their limits? Let's get on that instead of attempting to strawman something that was clearly used as a point of reference. How about we do that?
I could have left the IG out of it, but I did not want to mislead. Hope you are capable of seeing that. Re-read what I quoted from the wiki. Now tell me why those probes were any more powerful than an individual Punisher droid of Galactus. Tell me why Thanos, and PG Thor would not be able to run through them as well. The wiki pertaining to the Power Gem says that the PG makes it's user invincible. Not just that wiki, but there is another that also states this. The official handbooks state this as well. That seems to be some pretty solid proof of what the Power gem gives its user. Am I right? So when you wonder where and why I got this info from, you know now, if you did not know before.
Originally posted by h1a8
So Superman drilling his body through a probe with ease, Superman blasting through them with hv, or DD one hit shattering the shit out of one doesn't prove it?So PG Thor has durability showings on the level of not been affected by Superman using all his might for hours? In other words, you are suggesting that Superman can wail on PG Thor with all his might for hours and not do anything significant?
No, none of that proves they can kill PG Thor with one hit. Like I've said, you are either massively low-balling PG Thor or massively exaggerating DD and Superman.