Originally posted by riv6672
Good point, though Eve (and by extension, women) was the one getting all the bad press. And bleeding once a month out of her most intimate of places.
Adam/men seem to be suffering for sins that weren't his/our fault.
That is a interesting /stupid statement when the bible says he sinned while Eve was deceived by a supernatural entity that she could not resist.
Regards
DL
Originally posted by Star428
Mythology, my ass. Of course, it was written by men. The entire Bible was but God communicated to man (wether by talking, thru dreams, or some other means) what to write in it. The Bible is the word of God...and yes, He's quite real. Regardless of what know-it-all atheists think.
I am not an atheist. I am a Gnostic Christian.
Can you tell me why God put Satan right there with Eve?
Some say to test her but her mind was basically that of a baby who does not even know she is naked so there can be no testing of such an empty mind.
What is your view?
Regards
DL
Originally posted by riv6672
Even though we've gone completely off topic, shaky, i have to first say, no, my god's not a myth (i'm Asatru), and i couldnt care less if you call him that or not, and second, i have to ask, why should anyone believe YOU?
Faith is faith.
I've never been a fan of religions that push themselves on others. Also never been a fan of people who claim a person's religion is false.
Live and let live, as long as no one's getting hurt.
But faith is hurting many.
For the evils of religion to grow, read any scripture literally.
Any and all harmless beliefs are allowed by Gnostic Christians. We know that any myth can be internalized for good results and as esoteric ecumenists, we enjoy knowledge of all the myths that man has created about Gods.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D
When there is a victim is when that view changes. Then you see why Christianity annihilated Gnostic Christianity. We do not let the evils of forced literalism go unopposed. To a tyrant like Constantine, we were poison. One of his first commands to his new Church was to kill off the free thinkers and of course, his new tool, his Church, did as bid. It was quite a ride for free thought for the next 1,000 years.
For the evils of religion to grow.
How can a Gnostic Christian, --- and any other free thinking moral person, --- not judge other's morals when seeing someone hurt other because of the same Church's teachings today?
Can you ignore such things if you have decent morals? Impossible. Especially with Islam pulling the same murderous, freedom stifling ****.
We must discriminate and judge constantly. Every law is a compulsion on all of us to judge.
It is my view that all right wing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists, --- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parent religions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and the right wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks. Their God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HKHa...x=0&playnext=1
They also do much harm to their own fellow adherents.
African witches and Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9...eature=related
Jesus Camp 1of 3
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=48b_1185215493
Death to Gays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMw2Z...eature=related
For evil to grow my friend, all good people need do is nothing. Fight literalism when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.
Regards
DL
Originally posted by riv6672
Even though we've gone completely off topic, shaky, i have to first say, no, my god's not a myth (i'm Asatru), and i couldnt care less if you call him that or not, and second, i have to ask, why should anyone believe YOU?
Faith is faith.
I've never been a fan of religions that push themselves on others. Also never been a fan of people who claim a person's religion is false.
Live and let live, as long as no one's getting hurt.
This has nothing to do with me, and it sounds to me like you got offended. There is nothing wrong with mythology. There is wisdom from the people of the past in mythology. To say that a belief is mythology is not an insult.
I beg to differ on people not being insulted by saying their religions are essentially just stories, but, if you cant see that, its not ip to me to educate you on manners.
Also, the wall of text from the greatest i am...can be summed up in the first sentence.
Anything can be good or bad, (religion, science, eating, sex...) not sure what that has to do with anything.
Always interesting to see how people think on these topics...👆
Originally posted by riv6672
I beg to differ on people not being insulted by saying their religions are essentially just stories, but, if you cant see that, its not ip to me to educate you on manners...
If you can't handle the fact that there was never an Adam and Eve, then perhaps you should post in a Christian forum.
Originally posted by riv6672
I'm not christian, but thanks for the suggestion.Not sure what the opposite of a literalist is, but you guys always get condescending when people point out that the things you take to be stories might be true.
Keep the faith, shaky. 🙂
There is absolutely no way that the story of Adam and Eve could be literal. The human race would have died out long ago, and snakes would talk. The opposite of literalist is someone who can take the wisdom from a story without the story being fact.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There is absolutely no way that the story of Adam and Eve could be literal.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The opposite of literalist is someone who can take the wisdom from a story without the story being fact.
Faith. Look it up. 😉
Originally posted by riv6672
Why not?
Not enough of a gene pool, and snakes don't talk. When you see talking animals in a story, you know the story isn't real. Even if the story has great wisdom, you know the story didn't really happen.
Originally posted by riv6672
Who says its a story?Faith. Look it up. 😉
Personification says it's a story. Blind faith, look it up.
Originally posted by riv6672
Why not?Who says its a story?
Faith. Look it up. 😉
Faith vs Reason
Faith is a way for you to quit using your "God given" power of Reason and Logic, so you will believe doctrines that moral men reject as immoral.
The God of the OT says...“Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]
How can you reason with God when you throw away reason?
Religions, especially Christianity reply.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
Martin Luther “
This puts the rest of us in a position where reasoning with theist becomes impossible.
It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.
Jonathan Swift
Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths. You cannot show our friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses. Their faith also plugs their ears.
Regards
DL
Re: Why was Adam exempt from the transgression when the transgression was disobedience?
Originally posted by Greatest I am
Why was Adam exempt from the transgression when the transgression was disobedience?"Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." (I Timothy 2:11-14)
I think that Adam, not being deceived, was more culpable than Eve.
Why then did God favor the guiltiest, Adam, with, --- he shall rule over you?
Men rule over women? Why when men were not deceived but disobeyed?
What was the transgression, --- if not a wise decision to choose knowledge and wisdom and shun immortality of the flesh, --- even if that were possible, --- and why was Adan not punished as hard as Eve when he was clearly more guilty?
Regards
DL
"I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.
For Adam was formed first, then Eve;"
I Timothy 2:12-13
men should have authority over women because Adam was created first before Eve, that is the reason... not because Adam was not deceived... if this will make you feel alright --- Adam, as implied by the Bible, will not be saved... but Eve will be saved...
"Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty."
I Timothy 2:15
the mere fact that Eve was deceived, means that she committed a sin of lesser gravity than Adam, who sinned deliberately...
Re: Re: Why was Adam exempt from the transgression when the transgression was disobedience?
Originally posted by dyajeep
"I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.
[b]For Adam was formed first, then Eve;"
I Timothy 2:12-13men should have authority over women because Adam was created first before Eve, that is the reason... not because Adam was not deceived... if this will make you feel alright --- Adam, as implied by the Bible, will not be saved... but Eve will be saved...
"Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty."
I Timothy 2:15the mere fact that Eve was deceived, means that she committed a sin of lesser gravity than Adam, who sinned deliberately... [/B]
I agree yet God punished her more than Adam.
If God cannot judge well then he is not a worthy God.
Right?
Regards
DL
Re: Re: Why was Adam exempt from the transgression when the transgression was disobedience?
Originally posted by dyajeep
"I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.
[b]For Adam was formed first, then Eve;"
I Timothy 2:12-13men should have authority over women because Adam was created first before Eve, that is the reason... not because Adam was not deceived... if this will make you feel alright --- Adam, as implied by the Bible, will not be saved... but Eve will be saved...
"Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty."
I Timothy 2:15the mere fact that Eve was deceived, means that she committed a sin of lesser gravity than Adam, who sinned deliberately... [/B]
As sick as that sounds, that is correct according to the bible. I'm sure glad I'm not a Christian anymore.
Originally posted by ShakyamunisonPersonification says it's a story.
Personification is not exclusive to fiction.
There is a whole genre popular today called creative nonfiction:
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Creative nonfiction requires that you write true and factual narratives, not fiction. You’ll want to present the truth and facts in a compelling, entertaining, and memorable way so that others will be inspired to read your story. To write any of these forms of creative nonfiction, you have many techniques to choose from, such as scene, summary, personal reflection ...
In creative nonfiction, there are five popular narrative structures or shapes:
Narrative structure: Telling the story chronologically, from beginning to end.
Braided Structure: Telling a story by weaving or combining two, sometimes three, narratives or stories.
Collage: Using a thematic and segmented approach that combines a quotation or two, poem, scene, metaphor, simile, allusion, personification, image, vignette, anecdote, a short, short, true story, with an epiphany.
Frame: Telling a story by opening with a particular scene or reflecting and closing with a particular scene or reflection.
Narrative with Flashback: Telling a story using scene, summary, reflection, and flashbacks.
As well ... you can experiment with the narrative structure, resulting in a new structure or shape ... "
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http://davehood59.wordpress.com/2012/08/22/writing-creative-nonfiction-a-toolbox-of-techniques/
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Personification is not exclusive to fiction.
There is a whole genre popular today called creative nonfiction:
So, lets say I tell a creative nonfiction where I use a family of mice to tell a tragic story. Is this story meant to be taken literally? Are there mice that like in a house together like humans? No. Anyone who took the story literally would miss the point all together. That is exactly what is happening with the story of Adam and Eve. If you take the elements literally, you will miss the point of the story.
Humans once lived in the garden. We were just like the other animals, but then we did something, and we were thrown out of the garden. That's the story. Snakes didn't really talk, and Adam and Eve were not the first people. I personally believe that "first sin" was agriculture. If you read on, you will see that the story of Cane and Adel is another story about the struggle between those embraced agriculture and those who were hunter gatherers.
I never said the story was not important, I just said it was not literal. In other words fiction. Fiction is not devoid of meaning and wisdom.
Originally posted by Greatest I am
I agree yet God punished her more than Adam.If God cannot judge well then he is not a worthy God.
Right?
Regards
DL
can you tell me what punishment?
here is Eve's punishment:
"To the woman he said, I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you."
Genesis 3:16
and here is Adam's punishment:
"And to Adam he said, Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, You shall not eat of it, cursed is the ground because of you; in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life;
Thorns and thistles it shall bring forth to you; and you shall eat the plants of the field.
In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; you are dust, and to dust you shall return."
Genesis 3:17-19
the way i see it, Adam's punishment has more gravity...
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
As sick as that sounds, that is correct according to the bible. I'm sure glad I'm not a Christian anymore.
i'll gladly take that as a compliment, Shakya... 🙂