Cap vs Deathstroke no weapons

Originally posted by Silent Master
Those are supposed to match jumping out of a plane without a chute?

Guess you're failing to mention one important fact... that Cap jumped without a chute into WATER, feet first and with proper form. So yeah, getting hit by a speeding vehicle is comparable to that, probably even a better durability feat.

Cap's best durability feat is surviving shots from Loki and getting up after the chitauri blast hit him. Still not as good as mirakuru soldiers withstanding multiple gunshots at pointblank range.

You're aware that hitting water at terminal velocity is more than enough to shatter bones, right?

Originally posted by Silent Master
You're aware that hitting water at terminal velocity is more than enough to shatter bones, right?

Yup. And you're aware that getting hit by a speeding vehicle from the back is more than enough to shatter bones as well right?

We have records of humans diving off from more than 150 feet without injury. Granted, Cap probably jumped from the plane at a higher altitude than that, but what I want to point out here is that we don't have many examples of humans getting hit by speeding vehicles full force and surviving without injury.

So you're arguing that Slade could have replicated the plane jump?

Originally posted by Silent Master
So you're arguing that Slade could have replicated the plane jump?

Definitely. I'm also arguing that Slade can take the same hits from Red Skull, Winter Soldier, and Loki and react no less than how Cap did. Probably tank them even better.

Now, can you argue that Cap can take multiple gunshots at point blank range and just keep going like nothing happened? Can you argue that Cap can get hit full force in the back by a speeding van, get thrown 20 or so yards away, and get up without injury? Can you argue that Cap can take multiple hits from policemen with batons to the back without apparently noticing the hits?

Can you say that Cap is strong enough to easily snap a rifle in half with his bare hands without any apparent effort?

Originally posted by marwash22
the finale. He straight up walks up to one of Slade's men and stabs him in the head with an arrow.

Just finished skimming through the final episode, can't find the scene that you're referring to. The only time Sara's dad killed one of the mirakuru soldiers that I've seen is by using 3 grenades.

I'll give you Slade being more bullet resistant due to the serum making his muscles harder. but Cap has the better blunt and energy based durability feats.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I'll give you Slade being more bullet resistant due to the serum making his muscles harder. but Cap has the better blunt and energy based durability feats.

We can't say Cap has better energy durability, simply because Slade hasn't been hit by energy weapons yet so there's nothing to compare. It's big question mark. Won't really matter since both of them don't use energy based weapons of any sort.

Better to compare them on feats that both have, in this case blunt trauma and piercing durability.

But you also can't say that Cap has better blunt trauma durability because I gave you decent examples of Slade and his mirakuru soldiers sustaining blunt trauma rivaling those of Cap... and they usually handled it better.

Case in point: When Captain America gets hit by normal humans (Batroc, elevator fight with SHIELD agents, etc) he can take the hits but he still seems hurt by them, albeit minimally - which is pretty damn impressive. But when Slade gets hit by normal humans (Diggle, Oliver, Sarah), he pretty much no-sells it - which is more impressive in my books.

You can't grant Slade durability he hasn't shown, so until you can show him taking a hit with equal/better damage output than the energy weapon Cap took, Cap's durability is better.

Originally posted by Silent Master
You can't grant Slade durability he hasn't shown, so until you can show him taking a hit with equal/better damage output than the energy weapon Cap took, Cap's durability is better.

I showed him having equal or better durability to Cap in other areas, is it really such a stretch to assume he can't tank that chitauri blast the same way Cap did or even better?

Besides like I said, energy durability factors very little in this fight. Heck, it's not even worth mentioning since none of them ever use energy weapons.

And let's not pretend that Cap wasn't hurt by that chitauri gun. The blast grazed his side, it wasn't even a full hit yet it clearly hurt.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Slade has better durability and strength feats (especially considering the feats of his mirakuru soldiers). Cap has better skill and agility feats.

Fight can go either way, but in a weapons match I give the slight majority to Cap and in a h2h fight I give the slight majority to Slade.

In one other area IE bullets, IMO jumping out of a plane without a chute > getting hit by a car.

Originally posted by Silent Master
In one other area IE bullets, IMO jumping out of a plane without a chute > getting hit by a car.

IMO, jumping out of a plane and landing in WATER feet first < getting hit in the back, completely unprepared, by a speeding van

Besides, why do you guys keep skipping around the bullet durability feat? Tanking gunshots and arrows and knives are a whole lot more relevant in this fight than jumping out of a plane.

And as far as I know, Cap doesn't have different types of durability for different types of injuries. He's not Wonder Woman. I don't know why you lot keep trying to divide his durability into different categories. He has a durability factor, period. Unless Marvel releases some specs about Cap saying that he has different durability stats depending on type of attack, I'm assuming that his durability is all in proportion to a normal human's, albeit enhanced.

Originally posted by FrothByte
IMO, jumping out of a plane and landing in WATER feet first < getting hit in the back, completely unprepared, by a speeding van

I disagree, I think hitting water at terminal velocity is far more impressive.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I disagree, I think hitting water at terminal velocity is far more impressive.

Meh, I'm pretty sure I've seen other movie characters do it. I think James Bond has done it a few times, not sure though.

And surviving an exploding ship without any lasting injuries other than the arrow in your eye is even more impressive methinks.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Meh, I'm pretty sure I've seen other movie characters do it. I think James Bond has done it a few times, not sure though.

And surviving an exploding ship without any lasting injuries other than the arrow in your eye is even more impressive methinks.

Feel free to post the clips.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Feel free to post the clips.

Nah, too lazy. Too many james bond flicks. This debate isn't worth that much to me. Jumping out of a plane isn't quite as relevant to this fight as other durability feats anyway. Better to keep the argument to tanking punches and hits. And I seriously find it ridiculous how you're willing to put more stock in durability from jumping out of a plane as compared to durability from taking multiple gunshots.

And by the way, you never answered my questions:

Now, can you argue that Cap can take multiple gunshots at point blank range and just keep going like nothing happened? Can you argue that Cap can get hit full force in the back by a speeding van, get thrown 20 or so yards away, and get up without injury? Can you argue that Cap can take multiple hits from policemen with batons to the back without apparently noticing the hits?

Can you say that Cap is strong enough to easily snap a rifle in half with his bare hands without any apparent effort?

Seems everytime I post a Pro-Slade argument, the Pro-Cap camp steps around it and refuses to address it.

I would edge it to Cap, even though the Pro Cap arguments in here have been somewhat weak and some blatant dodging.

Originally posted by FrothByte
Bullets provide blunt force trauma as well as piercing. That's fact. That's why people jerk back when they get shot.

Plus like I said, mirakuru soldiers have survived getting hit by cars without apparent side effects. Those are pretty good blunt trauma durability feats, since cars can hit with much more force than Red Skull or Winter Soldier.

Oliver never matched miraukuru Slade. Everytime they met and Slade had miraukuru, he completely dominated Oliver. Batroc had a better showing against Cap than Oliver had against mirakuru Slade.

The degree of blunt force trauma sustained by a gunshot depends on the bullet type. Generally, bullets pierce through flesh without very much blunt force. There are exceptions, but the piercing nature of bullets confounds them as accurate reference feats in this particular fight. For all we know, Cap can tank blunt force trauma but not the piercing of his flesh. We can't just assume there aren't levels and conditions to durability. Feats suggest Cap is really good at tanking pure blunt force trauma and really bad at tanking bullets. In this fight, there are no bullets. So Slade's bullet tanking feat is irrelevant.

Cap getting beaten to a pulp by superhuman WS and then falling into the ocean from a helicarrier and briefly drowning>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Getting hit by a car

Cap crashing a plane into the arctic and being frozen for decades >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> getting hit by a car

Humoring you for a moment. Supposing Slade and Cap are equal in durability and strength. What about speed? Agility? Skill? Answer those questions.

Also, Slade is mentally ill. Being mentally ill can f uck up a person's fighting technique and strategy.

Originally posted by Firefly218
The degree of blunt force trauma sustained by a gunshot depends on the bullet type. Generally, bullets pierce through flesh without very much blunt force. There are exceptions, but the piercing nature of bullets confounds them as accurate reference feats in this particular fight. For all we know, Cap can tank blunt force trauma but not the piercing of his flesh. We can't just assume there aren't levels and conditions to durability. Feats suggest Cap is really good at tanking pure blunt force trauma and really bad at tanking bullets. In this fight, there are [B]no bullets. So Slade's bullet tanking feat is irrelevant.

Cap getting beaten to a pulp by superhuman WS and then falling into the ocean from a helicarrier and briefly drowning>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Getting hit by a car

Cap crashing a plane into the arctic and being frozen for decades >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> getting hit by a car

Humoring you for a moment. Supposing Slade and Cap are equal in durability and strength. What about speed? Agility? Skill? Answer those questions.

Also, Slade is mentally ill. Being mentally ill can f uck up a person's fighting technique and strategy. [/B]

Ok hold on, are you telling me that the ability to tank multiple bullets at point blank range is not a factor in this fight just because it's h2h? What a load of crap. If your musculature is dense enough that arrows and bullets can't penetrate deep enough to cause serious injury then that's a definite advantage in a h2h fight, especially against someone who doesn't have the same feats.

I also mentioned how normal humans can hurt Cap in melee albeit minimally. Slade no-sells hits from normal humans. In fact, no blunt trauma force has been capable of hurting mirakuru Slade from what I recall. In fact, none of the mirakuru soldiers were ever taken out by bunt force trauma.

A speeding vehicle hits with more force than Red Skull and Winter Soldier. Winter Soldier's robot arm is strong but you have to remember that Cap overpowered it with his leg.

Surviving an exploding ship with an arrow embedded in your eye >>>> surviving crash landing a plane and getting frozen

As for your question about agility and skill, I already answered that in previous posts. Cap has the advantage in skill and agility. Slade in strength and durability. Combat speed is roughly equal seeing as normal humans are able to keep up with their movements.

I'm too tired to respond to those arguments now, but man are you gonna get it in the morning 😄