If Captain America is a 10
Where do these other team leaders rate?
Please list/rate any prominent ones i didnt jot down.
Due to reboots and such, classic versions would be best, if not please say why.
1. Reed Richards
2. Superman
3. Nightwing
4. Cyclops
5. Leonardo
6. Cosmic Boy
7. Alan Scott GL
8. Guardian
9. Magneto
10. Sinestro
Re: If Captain America is a 10
1. Reed Richards - 4. Terrible leader, got his team into the worst accident of their lives. Doesn't talk to his team mates, one of whom is a doofus, the other is his wife, and his best friend who is in awe of his intellect. No real leadership there.
2. Superman - 9 Serves the same function as Cap, really, in the DCU. However, this is a function of him being the fastest/strongest/flyingest guy in the world, rather than his interpersonal skills (which are still top notch, don't eat me HoEs).
3. Nightwing - 10. Handpicked by Batman to lead the JLA, led the Titans, Outsiders, all without being the best at anything or being feared.
4. Cyclops - 10. Same as Cap, but with mutants. AvX showed how powerful his leadership was, splitting Marvel down the middle. Not to mention, even after the event, he still can lead his own team.
5. Leonardo - 8. The Renaissance painter is without equal, and my personal fav, but even though he invented the tank and the helicopter, as well as painted the Mona Lisa, I wouldn't put his leadership skills as high as Cap's.
6. Cosmic Boy - dunno
7. Alan Scott GL - 7. Elder stateman of the JSA, but shares this with Wildcat/Jay. Again, leader by dint of his sheer power. Also, his age.
8. Guardian - Alpha Flight? Who cares (KM).
9. Magneto - 8. Brotherhood, 'nuff said. However, New X-men kinda spoiled it for me, when he became addicted to Kick.
10. Sinestro - 6. Ruling by fear is a prerequisite for his corps, I know. But that doesn't make you that great a leader.
Thanks, DS.
And now my quibbles and comments.
Superman i'd rate 1-2 points lower, only because unlike your other 9s and 10s, Batman usually serves as the battle field leader, even telling Superman where he'd be most useful.
LO frikkin' L at Leonardo summation.
Cosmic Boy was iffy. I assume he's the Legion leader, more often than not.
Guardian. Not even a low score? Whats KM? Drawing a blank.
Finally, Nightwing. Totally agree with you, and saying that, especially with NOT being the best, or feared (not just in universe, but comics wide), i'd give him an 11, or at the least a +.
Originally posted by riv6672
Thanks, DS.And now my quibbles and comments.
Superman i'd rate 1-2 points lower, only because unlike your other 9s and 10s, Batman usually serves as the battle field leader, even telling Superman where he'd be most useful.
LO frikkin' L at Leonardo summation.
Cosmic Boy was iffy. I assume he's the Legion leader, more often than not.
Guardian. Not even a low score? Whats KM? Drawing a blank.
Finally, Nightwing. Totally agree with you, and saying that, especially with NOT being the best, or feared (not just in universe, but comics wide), i'd give him an 11, or at the least a +.
Nightwing is better than Cap? You read the Korvac Saga under Waid were Cap convinces alien races to team up against Korvac and convinves Korvac's servant to betray him. Can Nighwing beat that? WWH was upset Cap was dead etc.
KM is a poster that loves Alpha Flight.
Originally posted by Deadline
^ That doesn't prove he's better than Cap. It could also be argued that DC heroes are softies. A herochat poster said something really funny if Cap lived in the DC universe they would basically worship him.It's harder to lead in the MU.
Cap is pretty much worshipped in the MU, too.
Even some gods measure courage by Captain America. I believe the full quote belongs to Hercules. Maybe Thor.
But NW is just not in Cap's league as far as being an icon goes. For him to inspire such trust in DC heroes is a greater "feat".
It may be your personal preference but were trying to be objective here, not subjective.
Originally posted by riv6672
But NW is just not in Cap's league as far as being an icon goes. For him to inspire such trust in DC heroes is a greater "feat".
and I'm saying it isn't cos DC is a less harsh universe.
Hmm.
I guess my/rivv's thinking (ignoring the DC/Marvel comment, because, frankly, each universe is as good/bad as each other, and is trolling), was this:
Cap is a living legend. He is looked up to and revered as this amazing guy, from World War 2. And the reason why he had such a badass rep, was because back then, he WAS the top dog, the numero uno powerwise. Plus, invincible shield and all that. He gets defrosted in the 60s/70s whenever, with a leadership rep already made.
In other words, he's a legend the same way Superman is a legend. They are both top dogs in their respective timeline. If you were a baddie, you make your bones by taking down Superman/Cap.
THAT is why they are inspiring. Because they are unbeatable.
Of course, it is not the only reason - or else, what would the alien races care about some relic from a faraway war? But it is the main reason he is held in such awe by Marvel Earth.
Nightwing? He's just an acrobat with two sticks. And he's ordering all these powered individuals around, without being the strongest, fastest, smartest, or, arguably, the most tactically aware (as Cap is always shown to be). Neither does he have a power ring, or an unbreakable shield. He is leading through his personality and people skills, not through fear, having come up from the ranks, first as a kid sidekick, then as his own hero.
That would be why his leadership could be argued to be > Cap.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Hmm.I guess my/rivv's thinking (ignoring the DC/Marvel comment, because, frankly, each universe is as good/bad as each other, and is trolling), was this:
Cap is a living legend. He is looked up to and revered as this amazing guy, from World War 2. And the reason why he had such a badass rep, was because back then, he WAS the top dog, the numero uno powerwise. Plus, invincible shield and all that. He gets defrosted in the 60s/70s whenever, with a leadership rep already made.
In other words, he's a legend the same way Superman is a legend. They are both top dogs in their respective timeline. If you were a baddie, you make your bones by taking down Superman/Cap.
THAT is why they are inspiring. Because they are unbeatable.
Of course, it is not the only reason - or else, what would the alien races care about some relic from a faraway war? But it is the main reason he is held in such awe by Marvel Earth.
Nightwing? He's just an acrobat with two sticks. And he's ordering all these powered individuals around, without being the strongest, fastest, smartest, or, arguably, the most tactically aware (as Cap is always shown to be). Neither does he have a power ring, or an unbreakable shield. He is leading through his personality and people skills, not through fear, having come up from the ranks, first as a kid sidekick, then as his own hero.
That would be why his leadership could be argued to be > Cap.
Thanks again again DS. Thats basically what my reasoning is here.
And Deadline, seems you're being a wee bit more subjective yourself than you may realize.
Two more things that Cap has in his favour, which Nightwing did not have to help him achieve his status:
1. A massive propaganda machine during WW2 which helps build his rep up; and
2. A massive jobber aura. When Cap is putting the hurting on Hulk, THE Hulk, it inspires people like Spiderman to get up and fight. Nightwing does not have this, and so, he inspires and leads people again, through his people and leadership skills.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Two more things that Cap has in his favour, which Nightwing did not have to help him achieve his status:1. A massive propaganda machine during WW2 which helps build his rep up; and
They even had 2-3 other CAPs and Buckys to keep the legend alive.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Two more things that Cap has in his favour, which Nightwing did not have to help him achieve his status:1. A massive propaganda machine during WW2 which helps build his rep up; and
2. A massive jobber aura. When Cap is putting the hurting on Hulk, THE Hulk, it inspires people like Spiderman to get up and fight. Nightwing does not have this, and so, he inspires and leads people again, through his people and leadership skills.
You're killing this.
You're able to build up one character while not taking anything away from the other. 👆
Originally posted by Eixuheus
1. Reed Richards 82. Superman 12
3. Nightwing 14
4. Cyclops 14
5. Leonardo 8
6. Cosmic Boy 8
7. Alan Scott GL 8
8. Guardian 8
9. Magneto 6
10. Sinestro 9
There's really no right and wrong here but, that is one cockeyed list. Biggest ones'd be Cyclops and Superman as better leaders than Cap. Thats...highly debatable.