Originally posted by MF DELPHso you're going against what was said by the creator of the machine and how it was powered including Moondragons first statement about Thanos power signature and only using what Moondragon and Drax said after Thanos had been killed.
I'm standing by it being depicted on panel that the machine could only be operated by Thanos by design, Moondragon stating the machine was keyed to Thanos's power level, Drax stating that Surfer would need to give his all as the universe depended on him, and Surfer exerting so much power that it caused Drax to fly back from the exertion. If it was a simple matter of any being that possessed cosmic power being able to operate it it wouldn't have been a failsafe and Thanos wouldn't have been the only person capable of activating it.I find your interpretation lacking, and illogical.
Not to mention the fact you somehow think it's logical for a weak Surfer to be able to match or be equal to Thanos.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17so he hasn't really had his ass kicked all the times like you said.
Well they've only fought a handful of times. Less really...Looked to me Surf had the upper hand during Godhunter.
Surfer did get the upper hand , but in comparison to how Thanos handled Bill Surfer looked poor and Surfer is supposed to be equal to Thanos with this new power.
Originally posted by Insane Titan
so you're going against what was said by the creator of the machine and how it was powered including Moondragons first statement about Thanos power signature and only using what Moondragon and Drax said after Thanos had been killed.Not to mention the fact you somehow think it's logical for a weak Surfer to be able to match or be equal to Thanos.
Originally posted by Insane Titan
so you're going against what was said by the creator of the machine and how it was powered including Moondragons first statement about Thanos power signature and only using what Moondragon and Drax said after Thanos had been killed.Not to mention the fact you somehow think it's logical for a weak Surfer to be able to match or be equal to Thanos.
I'm going by what was shown on the page, which I posted here, and not the strawman you're attempting to cobble together. The machine was keyed to Thanos's power level. The comic states that Thanos had a failsafe installed in that machine that would only allow him (Thanos) to operate the machine. Your position is that Surfer is able to activate the machine simply because he also possesses "cosmic energy", which is illogical for Thanos to employ as a failsafe measure because he knows full well that there are numerous characters that employ the use of cosmic energy, including Annihilus, who he was working alongside during this arc. The machine was keyed specifically to Thanos's energy input, which Surfer, exerting everything he had left after being in that energy shunt, was able to mimic/match. I interpret that as Thanos designing the machine to not function unless the operator was able to input a level of power that only he was capable of outputting, not Thanos's full power output. It's analogous to 'wattage' or 'amperage'. The machine would only function if the operator was capable of inputting the wattage that Thanos set it at, which was very high as he is very powerful, and Surfer was able to exert that output to operate the machine in an act of desperation. It does not mean that Surfer is capable of outputting Thanos's max power output at all times, he was simply capable of outputting the amount of power necessary to operate a machine that was specifically designed to only be operated by Thanos.
Originally posted by MF DELPHif you're going by what was shown in the comic why are you ignoring what Thanos and Moondragon first said?
I'm going by what was shown on the page, which I posted here, and not the strawman you're attempting to cobble together. The machine was keyed to Thanos's power level. The comic states that Thanos had a failsafe installed in that machine that would only allow him (Thanos) to operate the machine. Your position is that Surfer is able to activate the machine simply because he also possesses "cosmic energy", which is illogical for Thanos to employ as a failsafe measure because he knows full well that there are numerous characters that employ the use of cosmic energy, including Annihilus, who he was working alongside during this arc. The machine was keyed specifically to Thanos's energy input, which Surfer, exerting everything he had left after being in that energy shunt, was able to mimic/match. I interpret that as Thanos designing the machine to not function unless the operator was able to input a level of power that only he was capable of outputting, not Thanos's full power output. It's analogous to 'wattage' or 'amperage'. The machine would only function if the operator was capable of inputting the wattage that Thanos set it at, which was very high as he is very powerful, and Surfer was able to exert that output to operate the machine in an act of desperation. It does not mean that Surfer is capable of outputting Thanos's max power output at all times, he was simply capable of outputting the amount of power necessary to operate a machine that was specifically designed to only be operated by Thanos.
If Thanos hadn't had keyed it to energy signature Surfer would have been able to work the device it's that simple.
Annihilus wouldn't have been able to work the device as he is mainly a absorber of energy plus he EP doesn't work the same way as Thanos , Surfer etc.
Originally posted by Insane Titan
if you're going by what was shown in the comic why are you ignoring what Thanos and Moondragon first said?If Thanos hadn't had keyed it to energy signature Surfer would have been able to work the device it's that simple.
You are also ignoring the fact Thanos filled the energy gauge next the machine using his own energy the release the fail safe.
Annihilus wouldn't have been able to work the device as he is mainly a absorber of energy plus he EP doesn't work the same way as Thanos , Surfer etc.
Originally posted by Insane Titan
so he hasn't really had his ass kicked all the times like you said.Surfer did get the upper hand , but in comparison to how Thanos handled Bill Surfer looked poor and Surfer is supposed to be equal to Thanos with this new power.
Uhhh... Where the heck did you get that from?
This is the last I'm going to say on this topic as it's a red herring in regards to the actual point I was making in the first place. That being that Surfer did in fact receive a power up from Galactus, and I posted the scan to show that on panel event.
Originally posted by Insane Titan
if you're going by what was shown in the comic why are you ignoring what Thanos and Moondragon first said?If Thanos hadn't had keyed it to energy signature Surfer would have been able to work the device it's that simple.
Annihilus wouldn't have been able to work the device as he is mainly a absorber of energy plus he EP doesn't work the same way as Thanos , Surfer etc.
Here's my first post in this silly exchange over Thanos in Annihilation:
Originally posted by MF DELPH
I think the reason why Surfer's post power up feats aren't "special" compared to his pre-power up feats is because Surfer's always been depicted as capable of doing practically anything via the power cosmic, so it just looks like more of the same, but it's actually not. Surfer has more power. His remorse holds him back from fully utilizing it to it's highest potential, but it's there.Also, in Annihilation, the point where Surfer got his power-up was prior to the point where Surfer and Galactus were captured and placed in the Galactus Cannon. When Drax and Moondragon break Surfer out of his harness (after Drax had killed Thanos) Moondragon states that Thanos built in a failsafe to the device which was tuned to Thano's power level. Surfer's able to activate the power cell array, which was tuned to Thanos's energy signature, and Thanos was previously significantly more powerful than Surfer. A depleted Surfer, who couldn't stand up, was able to output Thanos's level of power:
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_006_zps2bd44faa.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_007_zps2fa568f4.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_008_zpsa49cde35.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_009_zps08822469.jpgSo either Surfer has always been as powerful as Thanos, or Galactus gave him more power.
I know it pains us all to admit this, but everything points to carver actually being right on this one. Every dog has it's day, it seems.
See the underlined portion of my post. I made mention of the term "energy signature" in my initial post. You and I (primarily, you) seem to be quibbling over semantics. You think that power signature is just a matter of Surfer possessing cosmic power. I disagree with that interpretation because it's stated multiple times that only Thanos could operate the machine and that it was specifically tuned to him, so it was not simply a matter of anyone possessing cosmic power being able to operate the machine.
In the comic Moondragon is able to gleen information from Thanos's mind when he commands her to provide him with the thoughts she's taken from Annihilus:
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_007_zps57ece02a.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_008_zps15ea8955.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_014_zpsae01f84e.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_015_zps216716b0.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_016_zps601a1513.jpg
She states:
"You implanted a fail-safe. Only you can free Galactus, or was that just to insure I didn't hit your "off switch" while I was in there?"
to which Thanos replies:
"I am Thanos. I plan for every eventuality, however improbable."
which leads to this scene:
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_017_zps4137f3d5.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_020_zpsdfe96eed.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_021_zpse3e0df28.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_023_zps311c7c3e.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_024_zpsa2b82978.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_025_zps330275db.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_026_zps790c7133.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_027_zpsa08acc68.jpg
The sequence which contains the term you are harping on. Thanos says:
"The Fail-Safe option that will disable Galactus' bonds is keyed to my power signature."
Now, Thanos and Surfer do not have the same power signature. In this same arc Tenebrous and Aegis even made mention of it. Here they are able to tell that The Fallen One is "of Galactus" by sensing his energy:
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-3_0003_zps44fac71f.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-3_0004_zps28c2affe.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-3_0006_zps690e4cd6.jpg
And here they encounter Thanos, who they initially think also serves Galactus as The Fallen One calls him master, but they (Aegis, in particular) are able to sense his connection to Mistress Death and not the Power Cosmic:
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-4_0022_zpsffd21b8d.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-4_0023_zps83702a69.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-4_0024_zps05243ece.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-4_0025_zps93d872fb.jpg
Now we all know that Thanos is significantly more powerful than Surfer. In the scans above Thanos was casually powering the machine with one hand and no exertion on his part. When Drax kills Thanos, Moondragon, who had just read Thanos's mind, and was with him when he was explaining how the machine is operated, states this:
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_006_zps26d563f1.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_007_zpsea00d7ae.jpg
The first two pages of the four in my original post. That sequence leads to Drax breaking Surfer out of the shunt, and Drax imploring a weakened Surfer that it would take everything he's got in order to operate the machine without triggering Thanos's failsafe. In an act of desperation Surfer instantly powers up the device by channeling all of his power with both hands and freeing Galactus:
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_008_zpsdee76873.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_009_zpsda89c77d.jpg
^That sequence is where I'm making the claim of Surfer being able to mimic Thanos's energy output, which the machine was keyed to, and power the machine without triggering the failsafe. And this was after the power up which Galactus provided Surfer. All I was doing was pointing out the correlation between Surfer's power up from Galactus and and his later ability to output Thanos's "power level/power signature" in order to operate the machine specifically designed for only Thanos to be able to operate, as depicted and stated on panel. It's all laid bare for everyone to come to their own conclusions, but simply put, I don't agree with you and your interpretarion that it was simply a matter of possessing cosmic power. If that were the case it wouldn't have required Surfer's exertion of power, just his touch as it was depicted when Thanos was operating the machine. Surfer had to forcibly perform the feat.
I have nothing further to say on this tangent aspect of this conversation. Quip away as you will. I have zero concern.
Bottome line:
Surfer received a power up.
carver was actually right.
Originally posted by MF DELPH
This is the last I'm going to say on this topic as it's a red herring in regards to the actual point I was making in the first place. That being that Surfer did in fact receive a power up from Galactus, and I posted the scan to show that on panel event.Here's my first post in this silly exchange over Thanos in Annihilation:
See the underlined portion of my post. I made mention of the term "energy signature" in my initial post. You and I (primarily, you) seem to be quibbling over semantics. You think that power signature is just a matter of Surfer possessing cosmic power. I disagree with that interpretation because it's stated multiple times that only Thanos could operate the machine and that it was specifically tuned to him, so it was not simply a matter of anyone possessing cosmic power being able to operate the machine.
In the comic Moondragon is able to gleen information from Thanos's mind when he commands her to provide him with the thoughts she's taken from Annihilus:
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_007_zps57ece02a.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_008_zps15ea8955.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_014_zpsae01f84e.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_015_zps216716b0.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_016_zps601a1513.jpgShe states:
"[b]You implanted a fail-safe. Only you can free Galactus
, or was that just to insure I didn't hit your "off switch" while I was in there?"to which Thanos replies:
"I am Thanos. I plan for every eventuality, however improbable."
which leads to this scene:
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_017_zps4137f3d5.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_020_zpsdfe96eed.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_021_zpse3e0df28.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_023_zps311c7c3e.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_024_zpsa2b82978.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_025_zps330275db.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_026_zps790c7133.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_04_027_zpsa08acc68.jpgThe sequence which contains the term you are harping on. Thanos says:
"The Fail-Safe option that will disable Galactus' bonds is keyed to my power signature."
Now, Thanos and Surfer do not have the same power signature. In this same arc Tenebrous and Aegis even made mention of it. Here they are able to tell that The Fallen One is "of Galactus" by sensing his energy:
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-3_0003_zps44fac71f.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-3_0004_zps28c2affe.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-3_0006_zps690e4cd6.jpgAnd here they encounter Thanos, who they initially think also serves Galactus as The Fallen One calls him master, but they (Aegis, in particular) are able to sense his connection to Mistress Death and not the Power Cosmic:
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-4_0022_zpsffd21b8d.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-4_0023_zps83702a69.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-4_0024_zps05243ece.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/SS-4_0025_zps93d872fb.jpgNow we all know that Thanos is significantly more powerful than Surfer. In the scans above Thanos was casually powering the machine with one hand and no exertion on his part. When Drax kills Thanos, Moondragon, who had just read Thanos's mind, and was with him when he was explaining how the machine is operated, states this:
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_006_zps26d563f1.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_007_zpsea00d7ae.jpgThe first two pages of the four in my original post. That sequence leads to Drax breaking Surfer out of the shunt, and Drax imploring a weakened Surfer that it would take everything he's got in order to operate the machine without triggering Thanos's failsafe. In an act of desperation Surfer instantly powers up the device by channeling all of his power with both hands and freeing Galactus:
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_008_zpsdee76873.jpg
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w313/illadelph12_prime/ann_05_009_zpsda89c77d.jpg^That sequence is where I'm making the claim of Surfer being able to mimic Thanos's energy output, which the machine was keyed to, and power the machine without triggering the failsafe. And this was after the power up which Galactus provided Surfer. All I was doing was pointing out the correlation between Surfer's power up from Galactus and and his later ability to output Thanos's "power level/power signature" in order to operate the machine specifically designed for only Thanos to be able to operate, as depicted and stated on panel. It's all laid bare for everyone to come to their own conclusions, but simply put, I don't agree with you and your interpretarion that it was simply a matter of possessing cosmic power. If that were the case it wouldn't have required Surfer's exertion of power, just his touch as it was depicted when Thanos was operating the machine. Surfer had to forcibly perform the feat.
I have nothing further to say on this tangent aspect of this conversation. Quip away as you will. I have zero concern.
Bottome line:
Surfer received a power up.
carver was actually right. [/B]
Loved the way Tenebrous casually palmed Fallen One, like a farmer with a baby chicken.
