Originally posted by Marco1907
Nearly killed ? Did you watch that properly ? Obi-Wan had only one time trouble because of that pit, then he continued without problem ;
By that logic Kenobi only had trouble with Maul in TPM when he got forced pushed into a pit. And yet no one would dare argue TPM Kenobi>TPM Maul in sabers.
Also without problem?
1:35 Dooku throws him around like chump change
1:38 When he gets up Kenobi is clearly clutching his side.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
By that logic Kenobi only had trouble with Maul in TPM when he got forced pushed into a pit. And yet no one would dare argue TPM Kenobi>TPM Maul in sabers.Also without problem?
1:35 Dooku throws him around like chump change
1:38 When he gets up Kenobi is clearly clutching his side.
First, TPM Kenobi was amped due to Qui-Gon's death. So that was amped TPM Kenobi. (said by the TPM Novel)
Dooku kicked Obi-Wan, then Obi-Wan didn't loss his saber until that pit showed up. TPM Maul hurled Obi-Wan with the force and when that happened Obi-Wan was already disarmed by it.
Clutching his side means nothing since he continued, same effect made by Maul in their first battle at Revenge. Yet Obi-Wan continued to fight.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Dooku's command of the Force far outstrips Savage. His Force-augmented strength (which is dictated by ones command of the Force) will make up for Savage's superior muscle enough to make it not a factor. Dooku wins, obviously.
No force attacks, read the OP. Otherwise Dooku beats him with force lightning, since Savage doesn't know how to deflect it.
Originally posted by Marco1907
First, TPM Kenobi was amped due to Qui-Gon's death. So that was amped TPM Kenobi. (said by the TPM Novel)Dooku kicked Obi-Wan, then Obi-Wan didn't loss his saber until that pit showed up. TPM Maul hurled Obi-Wan with the force and when that happened Obi-Wan was already disarmed by it.
This is the dumbest argument I've ever heard. When you are fighting someone you need to be aware of your surroundings. So yes Dooku almost killed him with a single well placed kick, and if he didn't have to fend off Skywalker he would have easily put red plasma through his skull while he was disarmed.
Clutching his side means nothing since he continued, same effect made by Maul in their first battle at Revenge. Yet Obi-Wan continued to fight.
Yeah it does. It means Dooku landed a significant blow on him that if it weren't a 2v1 would have easily given Dooku plenty of openings.
Originally posted by Nephthys
One's command of the Force comes into lightsaber duels too, in enhanced physical abilities, precognition, senses, refelexes etc.
Yup.
Anakin is far stronger than Savage with his mechanical hand and massive force reserves. And yet here we see Dooku block his and Kenobi's attack with one hand
Originally posted by Lord Stark
This is the dumbest argument I've ever heard. When you are fighting someone you need to be aware of your surroundings. So yes Dooku almost killed him with a single well placed kick, and if he didn't have to fend off Skywalker he would have easily put red plasma through his skull while he was disarmed.Yeah it does. It means Dooku landed a significant blow on him that if it weren't a 2v1 would have easily given Dooku plenty of openings.
Nevermind, I already told that comparing Obi-Wan and Dooku battles are the wrong examples. Because Dooku has the makashi advantage over Kenobi's soresu.
Anakin and Savage examples are better, so with your logic, Savage nearly killed Dooku with one heavy stroke if they were fighting in Oba Diah right ?
Originally posted by Lord StarkAnakin is far stronger than Savage with his mechanical hand and massive force reserves.
Lol @ that..... 😆
Do you see the parts where that Savage ragdollls Anakin ? Twice ?
Originally posted by Marco1907
Because no one see the truth as I have. Dooku's skills are irrelevant against Savage, how can he defeat him while he can't deflect his blows ? It makes no sense.
No, what makes no sense is claiming that Dooku's skills are irrelevant against Savage.
Firstly he can deflect Savage's blows fine. He just can't block them. Second, he can always use sidesteps and evasions.
Originally posted by Marco1907
These people are saying that ''Dooku wins'' without presenting any logical reason.
I've given you a logical reason; As I said before, skill and precision beat power. In a swordfight a weaker but more skilled person will nearly always defeat a stronger but unskilled foe.
Originally posted by Nargaroth
Regardless, Makashi's weakness to power duellists is heavily overrated.
It's ridiculously overrated. Let's take a look at what that line actually states:
"His own elegant Makashi simply did not generate the kinetic power to meet Djem So head-to-head."
Simple solution. Don't go head to head. That is not required to beat an opponent. Just use deflections and evasions rather than trying to slug it out.
Originally posted by chilled monkeyIt's ridiculously overrated. Let's take a look at what that line actually states:
"His own elegant Makashi simply did not generate the kinetic power to meet Djem So head-to-head."
Interestingly, Obi-Wan doesn't have that problem.
So most people are overrating Dooku because he consistently beats Obi-Wan, while ignoring the fact that Obi-Wan easily stopped Anakin's kinetic power.
Which indicates that ; Rock, Paper, Scissors
Originally posted by Marco1907I would put Maul and Dooku in category 8 while Kenobi 7 because of the TK differences.
I don't know why your putting Maul's TK on the same level as Dooku's, when he's never actually defeated Kenobi with it, whilst Dooku clearly has.
In fact I don't know how you can put Maul in a whole category above Kenobi, when he's only defeated him once by using Dun Moch.
Originally posted by chilled monkeyIt's ridiculously overrated. Let's take a look at what that line actually states:
"His own elegant Makashi simply did not generate the kinetic power to meet Djem So head-to-head."
Simple solution. Don't go head to head. That is not required to beat an opponent. Just use deflections and evasions rather than trying to slug it out.
And in fact it goes on to say "especially while fending off a second attacker" or something like that.
So yeah a 1 vs 1, where Dooku deflects, evades and gives ground, is a completely different situation.
Originally posted by Marco1907
Interestingly, Obi-Wan doesn't have that problem.So most people are overrating Dooku because he consistently beats Obi-Wan, while ignoring the fact that Obi-Wan easily stopped Anakin's kinetic power.
Which indicates that ; Rock, Paper, Scissors
Do you want me to count just how many times Dooku has also fended off Anakin?
Just watch TCW. They fight like... A lot.
So Kenobi was in disadvantage because of Makashi > Soresu? Then Dooku was in disadvantage as well, because Makashi < multiple opponents.
Anyway, Dooku was a true master swordsman: he was able to find an answer for every Makashi's disadvantages:
- Dooku was the one, who led the Jedi team against Mandalorians, and won (and it's hard to find better distance-fighters then Manadalorians);
- Dooku was able to fight multiple opponents at once easily;
- Dooku could overpower finest Djem So master (aided by other fighter) in a saberlock (as he did against Anakin and Obi-Wan on IH; which let him ot throw thm both off-balance and catch them off-guard).
Dooku - unlike Obi-Wan for example - was also able to overcome his advanced age. Even as an old man, he was faster and more agile then Kenobi in his prime.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I'd say Savage is actually stronger than Anakin personally, though Anakin can become stronger with his massive power and in fact did in that fight.
I don't think so. Anakin has far greater force reserves and a mechanical arm. And even if we were to say that as true, Yoda and Sidious are both stronger than Savage, and Dooku was able to parry blows from Yoda. So either way Savage isn't brute forcing his way through Dooku's defense.
Savage is much bigger than him and is enhanced by magic. He's a physical monster who, as Marco for once correctly pointed out, tossed Anakin around with his brute strength. And Anakin has never blown Dooku clear across a room with his strength or anything.
BTW, Anakin and Obi-Wan bearhugging Savage was so ****ing retarded. Thank god I don't watch that crap.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Yup.Anakin is far stronger than Savage with his mechanical hand and massive force reserves. And yet here we see Dooku block his and Kenobi's attack with one hand
Actually, that's more the fact that the way they're reaching, neither can put full force into their push, but Dooku's defensive block is in a perfect position to put his full strength into it.
That was less physical prowess, more ingenuity.