Stacked team vs. SSJ2 Gohan

Piccolo had obviously seen more of Gohan's power than Goku did, considering Gohan only went SSJ2 for a brief second, while he was fighting for an extended time against Cell.

Goku's statement was a rushed pep-talk to encourage Gohan not to give up completely. Gohan was obviously weaker than Cell, as per him losing dramatically in the struggle until Vegeta distracted Cell. Piccolo made an observation based on facts, which has proven in the past to be superior to Goku's knowledge, ex. When Goku was fighting #19 and he thought he was stronger, but Piccolo was able to tell that his ki was weakening and he would lose.

Piccolo IS more knowledgeable than Goku when it comes to fighting. When it comes to anything, in fact. Goku is a master at fighting like no other, but all of his strength and technique rely solely on muscle memory. That's why he's able to replicate any technique after seeing it. The "monkey see, monkey do", technique he learned in Dragon Ball works so well for him BECAUSE he has such great muscle memory. That's why Goku has never been able to create a single attack by himself.

What you're saying is the equivalent of saying that Broly is a smarter fighter than Vegeta. Just because Broly's stronger, doesn't mean that he's smarter. In Broly's case, it means the contrary.

Either way though, in regards to the thread, Gohan wins easily in the first round, and gets stomped in the second. Mostly because of the difference in Perfect Cell, and SP Cell, who was basically give a SSJ bonus, as per Daizenshuu profiling.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Piccolo had obviously seen more of Gohan's power than Goku did, considering Gohan only went SSJ2 for a brief second, while he was fighting for an extended time against Cell.

Goku's statement was a rushed pep-talk to encourage Gohan not to give up completely. Gohan was obviously weaker than Cell, as per him losing dramatically in the struggle until Vegeta distracted Cell. Piccolo made an observation based on facts, which has proven in the past to be superior to Goku's knowledge, ex. When Goku was fighting #19 and he thought he was stronger, but Piccolo was able to tell that his ki was weakening and he would lose.

Piccolo IS more knowledgeable than Goku when it comes to fighting. When it comes to anything, in fact. Goku is a master at fighting like no other, but all of his strength and technique rely solely on muscle memory. That's why he's able to replicate any technique after seeing it. The "monkey see, monkey do", technique he learned in Dragon Ball works so well for him BECAUSE he has such great muscle memory. That's why Goku has never been able to create a single attack by himself.

What you're saying is the equivalent of saying that Broly is a smarter fighter than Vegeta. Just because Broly's stronger, doesn't mean that he's smarter. In Broly's case, it means the contrary.

Either way though, in regards to the thread, Gohan wins easily in the first round, and gets stomped in the second. Mostly because of the difference in Perfect Cell, and SP Cell, who was basically give a SSJ bonus, as per Daizenshuu profiling.

gohans ki at the time was weaker because his power was halved and he only had one arm. but you guys seem to be disregarding the fact that goku knew gohan had more power than he was showing. goku even stating that gohan didnt want to destoy the earth thats why he wasnt letting everything out. Goku is the only person who was with gohan in the hyperbolic time chamber he knew what gohan was capable of.

your the first person ive ever seen say that piccolo is a more knowledgeable fighter than goku. even tho a god like bills called him a fighting "genius".

Originally posted by yungz22
gohans ki at the time was weaker because his power was halved and he only had one arm. but you guys seem to be disregarding the fact that goku knew gohan had more power than he was showing. goku even stating that gohan didnt want to destoy the earth thats why he wasnt letting everything out. Goku is the only person who was with gohan in the hyperbolic time chamber he knew what gohan was capable of.

your the first person ive ever seen say that piccolo is a more knowledgeable fighter than goku. even tho a god like bills called him a fighting "genius".

1. Show the scan saying Gohan's ki was halved.

2. One arm not working or gone has never slowed anyone down before. Hell, even future Gohan was still as good of a fighter after losing his left arm. Show any proof that him having one arm made the Kamehameha any weaker.

3. Goku only saw him go SSJ2 for a second, that's why he knew that he could go SSJ2. No one else knew, but they all saw his power when he did. Give proof that they didn't know how strong he was, even though that's in direct contrast of the smartest fighter, Piccolo.

4. Show the scan of Goku saying that Gohan didn't want to destroy the Earth was making his attack weaker.

5. Bills didn't call him a fighting genius. He said he was the second best fighter he'd ever fought, behind only Whiss. I guess show the scene, but it didn't happen, so I know you can't.

6. Again, prove that Goku is a smart fighter at all. Which he isn't. He is a GREAT fighter, with incredible strength. That doesn't make him smart, as I just proved previously. "What you're saying is the equivalent of saying that Broly is a smarter fighter than Vegeta. Just because Broly's stronger, doesn't mean that he's smarter. In Broly's case, it means the contrary."

If you can complete numbers 1-6, you will maybe have an argument. Otherwise, shut up.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
1. Show the scan saying Gohan's ki was halved.

2. One arm not working or gone has never slowed anyone down before. Hell, even future Gohan was still as good of a fighter after losing his left arm. Show any proof that him having one arm made the Kamehameha any weaker.

3. Goku only saw him go SSJ2 for a second, that's why he knew that he could go SSJ2. No one else knew, but they all saw his power when he did. Give proof that they didn't know how strong he was, even though that's in direct contrast of the smartest fighter, Piccolo.

4. Show the scan of Goku saying that Gohan didn't want to destroy the Earth was making his attack weaker.

5. Bills didn't call him a fighting genius. He said he was the second best fighter he'd ever fought, behind only Whiss. I guess show the scene, but it didn't happen, so I know you can't.

6. Again, prove that Goku is a smart fighter at all. Which he isn't. He is a GREAT fighter, with incredible strength. That doesn't make him smart, as I just proved previously. "What you're saying is the equivalent of saying that Broly is a smarter fighter than Vegeta. Just because Broly's stronger, doesn't mean that he's smarter. In Broly's case, it means the contrary."

If you can complete numbers 1-6, you will maybe have an argument. Otherwise, shut up.

1.Oh ok so vegeta was still able to fight 18 even though she broke he arm in two?
Actually having one arm is one of the reasons the androids were able to kill him. Up until then it was always a stalemate between future gohan and the androids. And how about gohan stating he was at half power and only had one arm was a hinderance and one of the reasons he thought he couldnt win at first

2. goku stated that gohan had enough strength left inside him to kill cell and that gohan was holding back since he didnt wanna destroy the earth.

3. Piccolo maybe smarter in the philisophical sense and overall knowledge of the world but goku is smarter fighting wise.

4. http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3066-6/dragon-ball/chapter-417.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3066-7/dragon-ball/chapter-417.html
Gohans natural peaceful nature and hate for fighting and destruction also bolsters those statements.

5. You should watch the movie again right before bills said he was the second strongest he called goku a genius.

6. How about discovering the weakness of the ussj and creating the full powered ssj state, the many diversionary tactics hes used in battle, incorporating instant transmission in battle, being the first ssj 3, and many other accounts that i cant think off the top of my head.

Why tell me to shut up its a free country i can do what i want and your child like tendencies arent needed on this site

You know your very tough on the internet i wonder what you look like in real life and if youd act the same in public #whatsyourfacebook #showyourface #yournottough # nobodysafraidofyou

Why are you still acting like Gohan outright beat Cell during their Kamehameha-off? He didn't. There is a reason why Gohan specifically waited until CELL WAS DISTRACTED BY VEGETA'S CHEAP-SHOT before he "released all his power." Had Cell's guard not been down, like it was in the aforementioned scene, that 'tactic' simply would not have worked.

I think it's quite clear that SPCell~SSJ2 Gohan(peak)>>SSJ2 Gohan(injured.) Imo, you're not only taking Goku's statement grossly out of context, but are also acting as though said comment supersedes all evidence to the contrary. This is faulty for reasons I should not have to explain.

Just throwing this out there:

It did seem like Goku was trying to tell Gohan that he still had enough power to overpower Cell. I say this because even though Gohan and Piccolo thought he was getting weaker Goku was telling him he could still win without knowing Vegeta would help. This is similar to Goku knowing Gohan could reach the next level before Gohan himself knew.

I don't recall Goku ever being wrong about stuff like that before.

^ Then why did Goku only shout "NOW!"(ie. "give it everything you've got right this second!"😉 after Vegeta distracted/blasted Cell?

Originally posted by Galan007
^ Then why did Goku only shout "NOW!"(ie. "give it everything you've got right this second!"😉 after Vegeta distracted/blasted Cell?

Cuz it was his best opportunity to do so. Goku still is a tactician and takes advantage of opportunities against opponents. But he still was telling Gohan that he could still win before the distraction. Basically he had no reason to believe such an opportunity would present itself yet still told Gohan that he could win.

So either he knew Vegeta, or someone at all, would provide the much needed diverson or he felt Gohan could win without it.

I'm only going to say that if there was some massive power gap between SSJ2 Gohan and SPC, Gohan wouldn't have been injured by Cell's blast in the first place, guard down or not

We've seen what happens when massively inferior people try to blast a much stronger character even when he's standing still. Second form Freeza took Vegeta's blast to the back, which had no effect. Piccolo's blast against a Raditz who wasn't even making any effort to guard himself did nothing too.

Originally posted by juggerman
Cuz it was his best opportunity to do so. Goku still is a tactician and takes advantage of opportunities against opponents. But he still was telling Gohan that he could still win before the distraction. Basically he had no reason to believe such an opportunity would present itself yet still told Gohan that he could win.

So either he knew Vegeta, or someone at all, would provide the much needed diverson or he felt Gohan could win without it.

Originally posted by Crimson Dragoon
I'm only going to say that if there was some massive power gap between SSJ2 Gohan and SPC, Gohan wouldn't have been injured by Cell's blast in the first place, guard down or not

We've seen what happens when massively inferior people try to blast a much stronger character even when he's standing still. Second form Freeza took Vegeta's blast to the back, which had no effect. Piccolo's blast against a Raditz who wasn't even making any effort to guard himself did nothing too.

Piccolo's all-out blast vs. Imperfect Cell is another example. Piccolo(who was ~ #17) attacked Imperfect Cell(who was ~ #16) with his most powerful blast, and Cell didn't even take any damage whatsoever.

Plus too, if SSJ2 Gohan was as superior to Super P. Cell as he was to regular Perfect Cell (the latter of which he toyed with to nearly no end), he probably would've been fast enough to save Vegeta from that finishing move WITHOUT getting one of his arms nearly blown off in the process.

Originally posted by Crimson Dragoon
I'm only going to say that if there was some massive power gap between SSJ2 Gohan and SPC, Gohan wouldn't have been injured by Cell's blast in the first place, guard down or not

We've seen what happens when massively inferior people try to blast a much stronger character even when he's standing still. Second form Freeza took Vegeta's blast to the back, which had no effect. Piccolo's blast against a Raditz who wasn't even making any effort to guard himself did nothing too.

I'm not saying it's the only way it could be but why would Goku tell Gohan he could win if he really couldn't. Keep in mind Goku didn't know Cell would be distracted so in his mind Gohan really didn't have much of a chance if Cell was so far above him

Originally posted by Galan007
Seems like you're digging pretty deep here.

You're the one that said weaker can hurt stronger is stronger is distracted right? Why can't that apply to Gohan being distracted by trying to save Vegeta?

Originally posted by Crimson Dragoon
I'm only going to say that if there was some massive power gap between SSJ2 Gohan and SPC, Gohan wouldn't have been injured by Cell's blast in the first place, guard down or not

We've seen what happens when massively inferior people try to blast a much stronger character even when he's standing still. Second form Freeza took Vegeta's blast to the back, which had no effect. Piccolo's blast against a Raditz who wasn't even making any effort to guard himself did nothing too.

weaker ppl hurt stronger ppl alll the time....cell has been hurt by those weaker thaan him countless times

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Plus too, if SSJ2 Gohan was as superior to Super P. Cell as he was to regular Perfect Cell (the latter of which he toyed with to nearly no end), he probably would've been fast enough to save Vegeta from that finishing move WITHOUT getting one of his arms nearly blown off in the process.

Originally posted by yungz22
weaker ppl hurt stronger ppl alll the time....cell has been hurt by those weaker thaan him countless times

Fact is: you've no PROOF that SPC was weaker than SSJ2 Gohan. None at all. You're simply presenting personal conjecture, and trying to sell it as fact. Doesn't work that way. 👇

When Cell WAS harmed by weaker characters, we knew, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that they WERE weaker than himself. No illogical guesstimations were required. The same CANNOT be said about SPC in comparison to SSJ2 Gohan, however--by all accounts they were nigh-equals. That is why your logic fails here. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
Also a good point. 👆

Heh, I like how you only use this line of argumentation when it suits your case, but tried to completely ignore it the several times I mentioned it. 😂

Fact is: you've no PROOF that SPC was weaker than SSJ2 Gohan. None at all. You're simply presenting personal conjecture, and trying to sell it as fact. Doesn't work that way. 👇

When Cell WAS harmed by weaker characters, we knew, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that they WERE weaker than himself. No illogical guesstimations were required. The same CANNOT be said about SPC in comparison to SSJ2 Gohan, however--by all accounts they were nigh-equals. That is why your logic fails here. 👆

dialouge from the main character about his son isnt fact..... even though he knows his own son better than anyone in the series as well as him being the best fighter in the show is not is not evidence?

and when did i ever say weaker characters couldnt hurt stronger ones those words never came out of my mouth.

the facts are that gohan was at half strength as stated by him and that his father who traind him stated he ws still strong enough to kill cell as well as goku stating that gohan was holding back more than once. as well as gohans natural peacefull nature are all evidence that bolster my point that a full powered gohan would have been more than enough for cell. again even with gohan at half strength there was still a beam struggle between the two

We also have Piccolo explicitly telling us that Gohan's ki was weaker than SPC's. We also have Gohan specifically waiting until SPC was distracted by Vegeta's blast before he 'let loose'. We also have SPC telling us that SSJ2 Gohan, even at his peak levels, wouldn't have been able to beat him.

...But Goku's statement apparently supersedes all of that in your world. Heh...

Originally posted by Galan007
We also have Piccolo explicitly telling us that Gohan's ki was weaker than SPC's. We also have Gohan specifically waiting until SPC was distracted by Vegeta's blast before he 'let loose'. We also have SPC telling us that SSJ2 Gohan, even at his peak levels, wouldn't have been able to beat him.

...But Goku's statement apparently supersedes all of that in your world. Heh...

Piccolo was wrong about gohan even being able to compete with cell in the first place he swore it was over once goku nominated gohan to fight him. Who ended up being right? Goku did.

Goku's word holds more bearing against piccol because hes never been wrong about who can fight or beat who. He knew gohan has always had power inside him something others didnt.

When did cell say that? Panels?

Originally posted by yungz22
1.Oh ok so vegeta was still able to fight 18 even though she broke he arm in two?
Actually having one arm is one of the reasons the androids were able to kill him. Up until then it was always a stalemate between future gohan and the androids. And how about gohan stating he was at half power and only had one arm was a hinderance and one of the reasons he thought he couldnt win at first

2. goku stated that gohan had enough strength left inside him to kill cell and that gohan was holding back since he didnt wanna destroy the earth.

3. Piccolo maybe smarter in the philisophical sense and overall knowledge of the world but goku is smarter fighting wise.

4. http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3066-6/dragon-ball/chapter-417.html
http://www.mangapanda.com/105-3066-7/dragon-ball/chapter-417.html
Gohans natural peaceful nature and hate for fighting and destruction also bolsters those statements.

5. You should watch the movie again right before bills said he was the second strongest he called goku a genius.

6. How about discovering the weakness of the ussj and creating the full powered ssj state, the many diversionary tactics hes used in battle, incorporating instant transmission in battle, being the first ssj 3, and many other accounts that i cant think off the top of my head.

Why tell me to shut up its a free country i can do what i want and your child like tendencies arent needed on this site

You know your very tough on the internet i wonder what you look like in real life and if youd act the same in public #whatsyourfacebook #showyourface #yournottough # nobodysafraidofyou

1. Vegeta fought with every bone in his body broken against Goku. I'm sure the arm thing wasn't THAT debilitating for him. In fact, Trunks admitted that the most damage they did was to his pride. Gohan never said his power was halved. Future Gohan never said his one arm was a hindrance. In fact, the androids said they only killed him because they thought he would have been stronger at that point, but he wasn't.

2. Yes, but who do you think knows more about Gohan's power? Goku, who is billions of miles away in a different dimension, or Gohan himself, who can feel his and Cell's power difference? Gohan said he was already doing his best, which is why they counted on Vegeta to distract Cell.

3. What does that have to do with anything? Again, Goku's best example of strategy in a fight is using a bunch of energy on two kamehameha's to distract Frieza for a second to land a single kick. Piccolo has charted the sky to plant bombs of ki in the midst of his offense to cause more damage and trap his opponents, he has used distractions to beat enemies stronger than him, and even acted like he was dying to extract info out of weaker opponents. Piccolo is a strategist. Goku is a simple martial artist. Again, being a better fighter =/= being a smarter fighter.

4. In the same scan you just provided, Gohan contradicted Goku by saying he was already going full power. He knows more about his power than Goku, so his statement > Goku's.

5. Nope. He didn't.

6. Goku hasn't used diversionary tactics, he has used his strength, speed, and IT to dodge when he needed to. That is not strategic at all. He simply teleported out of the way of beams he couldn't dodge. Piccolo on the other hand, or someone smarter than Goku, would have teleported the beam as well, and made Cell/Buu hit themselves. SSJ3 was a result of training in a dead body that uses less energy. Even Goten and Trunks replicated that. Not to mention that Vegeta also knew the limitations of the super form.

Not to mention, you know, "We also have Piccolo explicitly telling us that Gohan's ki was weaker than SPC's. We also have Gohan specifically waiting until SPC was distracted by Vegeta's blast before he 'let loose'. We also have SPC telling us that SSJ2 Gohan, even at his peak levels, wouldn't have been able to beat him."

And btw, you're not gonna guilt me into joining your fb group. Sorry, I'd just rather connect this site with my social life. I'm sure you can understand...

Originally posted by yungz22
Piccolo was wrong about gohan even being able to compete with cell in the first place he swore it was over once goku nominated gohan to fight him. Who ended up being right? Goku did.

Goku's word holds more bearing against piccol because hes never been wrong about who can fight or beat who. He knew gohan has always had power inside him something others didnt.

Originally posted by yungz22
When did cell say that? Panels?

Cell, who had seen SSJ2 Gohan's power firsthand, practically lulz'ed at the notion that Gohan would be able to defeat his Super-Perfect form--I'm guessing his stated "MASSIVE" power increase may have had something to do with that. So yeah, ALL evidence considered(not just your one cherry-picked/out-of-context statement) Akira simply would not have had Cell make such a comment if their powers weren't comparable at that point... Which *should* have already been obvious to anyone with a bit of logical deduction skills, given the evidence I've repeatedly mentioned, but I digress...

Originally posted by Galan007
Yes, Gohan had SO much power that he was rendered completely HELPLESS against Cell until Vegeta distracted him with a cheap-shot. Lol, keep clinging desperately to that. Eff the other contradictory evidence. 😂

http://i.imgur.com/915vv1E.gif

Cell, who had seen SSJ2 Gohan's power firsthand, practically lulz'ed at the notion that Gohan would be able to defeat his Super-Perfect form--I'm guessing his stated [b]"MASSIVE" power increase may have had something to do with that. So yeah, ALL evidence considered(not just your one cherry-picked/out-of-context statement) Akira simply would not have had Cell make such a comment if their powers weren't comparable at that point... Which *should* have already been obvious to anyone with a bit of logical deduction skills, given the evidence I've repeatedly mentioned, but I digress... [/B]

gohan didnt let all of his energy ut once again goku's statements and gohan's natural character beats your speculation.