Cage Match - Superman and Hulk teamup

Originally posted by abhilegend
Sure thing bro. Remind me how Superman has treated Hulk in past? Beaten him or outright ignored him every time.

That's the weakest superman ever, Byrne Superman beating Hulk clean.

🙂

Thats a pretty disingenuous portrayal of the scene/issue. Superman completely blindside toredoing Hulk out of nowhere. And its not like Hulk was shown to be KOed or anything in the following pages.

If anything his actions and words imply a great deal of respect for Hulk's capabilities based on their first encounter - "He's spotted me! Got to hit him fast - and hit him hard!". And in the follow-up fight Superman noted how he was cutting loose on Hulk who took it all more or less in stride.

Originally posted by Fifthchild
Thats a pretty disingenuous portrayal of the scene/issue. Superman completely blindside toredoing Hulk out of nowhere. And its not like Hulk was shown to be KOed or anything in the following pages.

If anything his actions and words imply a great deal of respect for Hulk's capabilities based on their first encounter - "He's spotted me! Got to hit him fast - and hit him hard!". And in the follow-up fight Superman noted how he was cutting loose on Hulk who took it all more or less in stride.

Yeah, Byrne Superman was more or less equal to savage Hulk in strength. And then he tossed Hulk out of the energy field when Hulk was unable to breach it.

🙂

Originally posted by abhilegend
Sure thing bro. Remind me how Superman has treated Hulk in past? Beaten him or outright ignored him every time.

That's the weakest superman ever, Byrne Superman beating Hulk clean.

🙂

Superman blind sided him anyways and bfred him. Not a legit representation of how the fight would go.

Originally posted by carver9
So your entire argument is based off speed? So we disregard all of the bricks that has punched Superman jaw in?

Yes, we kind of do disregard those..you are aware of what plot induced stupidity is, yes? Or..do you just feel Superman doesn't have super speed? What exactly are you implying with this comment? I'm sorry if you don't like that super speed is a huge advantage, but it is..and I'm sorry if in comics characters do not always remember their speed, but this is not a comic. We can certainly debate it like it was if you want, but given anything can happen in a comic we would not get very far.

You are really asking me if we disregard instances of characters without super speed hitting characters with massive amounts of it?

But you say "your entire argument is based off speed" as if..that is some outlandish idea? Here is the thing: I don't care how hard you can punch, it doesn't mean a damn thing if you are too slow to hit your opponent.

By the way, Hulk speed fts are>>>>> current Darkseid, does Hulk stomp Darkseid without getting touched?

Hulks current speed feats are..what exactly? Also, I never said being faster always means you win, but you seem to have issues with the whole "super speed is an advantage" to which then perhaps do not make fights where you put characters with massive amounts of speed up against those without any.

Seriously, I get people may not be fans of the whole super speed thing, they might feel it is cheap, which is fine..but it doesn't mean you ignore speed advantages. If a character defeating another character relies on that character flat out forgetting their various powers..that isn't much of a victory, is it? If Superman has to forget his speed and just stupidly stand there and let a character wail on him for them to have a chance..well, what does that say? Would you not want a character who can beat a Superman who is actually fighting intelligently?

Originally posted by Surtur
Yes, we kind of do disregard those..you are aware of what plot induced stupidity is, yes? Or..do you just feel Superman doesn't have super speed? What exactly are you implying with this comment? I'm sorry if you don't like that super speed is a huge advantage, but it is..and I'm sorry if in comics characters do not always remember their speed, but this is not a comic. We can certainly debate it like it was if you want, but given anything can happen in a comic we would not get very far.

You are really asking me if we disregard instances of characters without super speed hitting characters with massive amounts of it?

But you say "your entire argument is based off speed" as if..that is some outlandish idea? Here is the thing: I don't care how hard you can punch, it doesn't mean a damn thing if you are too slow to hit your opponent.

Hulks current speed feats are..what exactly? Also, I never said being faster always means you win, but you seem to have issues with the whole "super speed is an advantage" to which then perhaps do not make fights with characters with massive amounts of super speed?

Quit ignoring the evidence which is the comics themselves and piggybacking selective feats. Not how it works, sport.

They get stopped at 8

Fist fight only? I also say, stopped at 8.

Originally posted by riv6672
-waits for abhi to figure out he's backing the Hulk-

He realized it, and turned the thread into Superman vs Hulk.

Man its like i knew it was going to happen....😆

Originally posted by Surtur
Yes, we kind of do disregard those..you are aware of what plot induced stupidity is, yes? Or..do you just feel Superman doesn't have super speed? What exactly are you implying with this comment? I'm sorry if you don't like that super speed is a huge advantage, but it is..and I'm sorry if in comics characters do not always remember their speed, but this is not a comic. We can certainly debate it like it was if you want, but given anything can happen in a comic we would not get very far.

You are really asking me if we disregard instances of characters without super speed hitting characters with massive amounts of it?

But you say "your entire argument is based off speed" as if..that is some outlandish idea? Here is the thing: I don't care how hard you can punch, it doesn't mean a damn thing if you are too slow to hit your opponent.

Hulks current speed feats are..what exactly? Also, I never said being faster always means you win, but you seem to have issues with the whole "super speed is an advantage" to which then perhaps do not make fights where you put characters with massive amounts of speed up against those without any.

Seriously, I get people may not be fans of the whole super speed thing, they might feel it is cheap, which is fine..but it doesn't mean you ignore speed advantages. If a character defeating another character relies on that character flat out forgetting their various powers..that isn't much of a victory, is it? If Superman has to forget his speed and just stupidly stand there and let a character wail on him for them to have a chance..well, what does that say? Would you not want a character who can beat a Superman who is actually fighting intelligently?

So I ignore these characters entire history based on an assumption? I ignore the fact that Surfer has been challenged by people far less versatile than him and sometimes lost. Let's flip this...Surfer has every last one of Superman's powers plus interest. Does Surfer stomp Superman 10/10 based on him being capable of doing anything? Do i ignore comics and just say "Surfer opens a black hole in Superman brain 10/10 for the win? Or do I stick by the "in character" rule which shows us people like Superman can give Surfer a fight and possibly win? We do not ignore what happens in comics to suit a character needs. We don't debate off powerset, we use scans to back our claim...comic book showings, not Internet myths. Gladiator speed piss on Darkseid speed but I don't think anyone here would give Gladiator the majority against him. If you're going to sit here and use the speed argument for Superman, make sure you share the wealth with the other characters.

Lol...have you been keeping up with Hulk?

Originally posted by abhilegend
[B]What? Superman specifically said that Hulk wouldn't be awake after he throws him.

Which obviously doesnt prove anything. Superman was constantly being surprised by the Hulk - see his remarks later in the fight when he wondered if Hulk had been hurt worse by the missiles or by his punch into the mountain.

And we catch Hulk after some time had passed.

If by some time you mean the next page.

And Hulk specifically sees Superman blitzing him, how is that blindsiding him?

Yeah Hulk was obviously ready - hence the giant "?!" thought balloon when he sees Superman about 10 meters away flying full speed into his gut.

Yeah, Byrne Superman was more or less equal to savage Hulk in strength. And then he tossed Hulk out of the energy field when Hulk was unable to breach it.

Yeah? Where does it state that Hulk is unable to "break free from the energy field"? Why didnt Superman just fly out of it? This is a giant stretch.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Definitely? That's a bold claim.

Just dont see them getting past 2 power gems

Originally posted by riv6672
He realized it, and turned the thread into Superman vs Hulk.

Man its like i knew it was going to happen....😆

Nope. 🙂

This is an interesting thread, all off topicness aside. I'm too lazy but someone needs to make a street leveler version; Cap and Batman vs the world...

Originally posted by carver9
What are you talking about? No one here is saying Hulk can't lose and before losing to Sungod, he was beating the h*** out of him. It wasn't a easy win for the guy but again, characters do lose. It is what it is.

Has Silver Surfer fought Hulk recently? Things would probably play out different since Hulk has most def received a jump in power. Also, one of your faves (Blue Marvel) got taken out by Hyperion with a couple of blows. Don't see you throwing that around in people face. Don't see you bringing up Sentry loses either or Thor's. If you are going to cling to a loss for one character, make sure you open your eyes and look at the other characters as well.

I don't want to go too far off topic. But to address your views on things; Blue Marvel, and Sentry aren't in this thread. Blue Marvel defeated K Hyperion, and the fight did not begin the way a forum match up would. If they both began fighting at the same time, instead of Adam making speeches, being cocky, and unprepared for K Hyperion's attack, the fight would have gone completely different.

In the end Adam wasn't out long enough for the fight to have been over at that point. KH put damage on BM. BM was able to get back up before the 10 count. When BM put damage on KH, KH was unable to get back up, and he failed the 10 count. Who won? In my eyes BM won the fight. If they both went in swinging from the door, and not talking, I would side with BM coming out the winner without taking as much damage as he did in the scenario that took place in that book.

I was going by what I have seen with the Hulk. No character is unbeatable, but at the same time, you can't tack the Hulk's loses onto BM, because BM never lost to the guys that the Hulk has. He will lose for sure. There is no evidence to suggest that BM would lose to Sungod. The Hulk on the other hand has dropped the ball too many times while being at the win or go home stage. The Hulk that fought Sungod has a problem of ramping up fast enough to meet the big challenges, which is why I gave Team Power Cosmic the win here. The Hulk is the problem here, not Superman. The Hulk was pissed in his fight with Sungod, and he still lost convincingly. There was not cockiness, or prolonged dialog, and then a sneak attack is launched. They fought it out from the door, and the Hulk lost.

The Hulk has never been able to physically hurt the Surfer. Why should I believe that anything has changed without any proof? Comic book Superman would be the teams only chance. I just can't see the Hulk taking Morg and Firelord together. In comics where we see the Surfer being punched by guys, but is able to avoid boulders in debris fields, while traveling at Light or above speeds seems like a sham, but whatever. Have you ever noticed how tough the Abomination has been for the Hulk, but then Thor turns around and 2 pieces him? Doc Green is another story. I have no idea how well he'd do outside of the Gamma Crew.

Originally posted by Stoic
I don't want to go too far off topic. But to address your views on things; Blue Marvel, and Sentry aren't in this thread. Blue Marvel defeated K Hyperion, and the fight did not begin the way a forum match up would. If they both began fighting at the same time, instead of Adam making speeches, being cocky, and unprepared for K Hyperion's attack, the fight would have gone completely different.

In the end Adam wasn't out long enough for the fight to have been over at that point. KH put damage on BM. BM was able to get back up before the 10 count. When BM put damage on KH, KH was unable to get back up, and he failed the 10 count. Who won? In my eyes BM won the fight. If they both went in swinging from the door, and not talking, I would side with BM coming out the winner without taking as much damage as he did in the scenario that took place in that book.

I was going by what I have seen with the Hulk. No character is unbeatable, but at the same time, you can't tack the Hulk's loses onto BM, because BM never lost to the guys that the Hulk has. He will lose for sure. There is no evidence to suggest that BM would lose to Sungod. The Hulk on the other hand has dropped the ball too many times while being at the win or go home stage. The Hulk that fought Sungod has a problem of ramping up fast enough to meet the big challenges, which is why I gave Team Power Cosmic the win here. The Hulk is the problem here, not Superman. The Hulk was pissed in his fight with Sungod, and he still lost convincingly. There was not cockiness, or prolonged dialog, and then a sneak attack is launched. They fought it out from the door, and the Hulk lost.

The Hulk has never been able to physically hurt the Surfer. Why should I believe that anything has changed without any proof? Comic book Superman would be the teams only chance. I just can't see the Hulk taking Morg and Firelord together. In comics where we see the Surfer being punched by guys, but is able to avoid boulders in debris fields, while traveling at Light or above speeds seems like a sham, but whatever. Have you ever noticed how tough the Abomination has been for the Hulk, but then Thor turns around and 2 pieces him? Doc Green is another story. I have no idea how well he'd do outside of the Gamma Crew.

Here goes this weird debating again. You don't know what that version of Hulk can do (the one that fought sun god) since he took a serum before facing Sun God.

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/Screenshot_2014-06-25-13-46-15_zps3518d875.png.html

That wasn't the known green giant we are familiar with. Also, lol, yes, Hulk koed Surfer during Planet Hulk and again, Hulk has had a jump in power since then. You bringing up his classic showings mean crap here.

You can think Blue Marvel won but that doesn't change the fact that Hyperion dropped him easily with a couple of blows. EASILY. And then turned his back from him and gave a speech. Lol...crazy thing is, with Sun god small showings, there proof he could take Blue Marvel. Blue got dropped by a ft less Hyperion, Sun God possess fts.

I agree with your concept on no character being unbeatable but you're approaching it the wrong way. Everyone in this thread has been dropped, so you don't need to point fingers at one character...you need to point to all. Do i honestly need to name the defeats of every last one of these characters in this thread to get you to comprehend common sense?

Lol...did you really just bring up Thor when we are talking about someone being defeated. Trust me, he has loses. His showing against Superior Venom wasn't good at all and I think Hulk would outright murder superior Venom.

Also, when did Thor two piece Abomination?

Lol at you using Zombie Abomination as evidence. Did you even read the comic? Read the comic, THEN discuss what you thought about it because it's obvious you seen a couple of scans.

Originally posted by carver9
Also, when did Thor two piece Abomination?

Lol at you using Zombie Abomination as evidence. Did you even read the comic? Read the comic, THEN discuss what you thought about it because it's obvious you seen a couple of scans.

Why try to make things as personal as you can? Why make assumptions? You have no idea what I have read. The Hulk is being used here, and depending on how you look at it, the Hulk is never on the same level. What has this Hulk done? I'm not talking old school stories of the Hulk, except with the Abomination/Thor comment. What has the indestructible era Hulk done?

KH lost to BM, deal with it. If you want to turn things around, while ignoring what happened on panel, that is up to you. Perhaps we may have even comprehended the battle differently, which is possible. All the same BM won the fight. KH could not take the power that he was hit with. The End. KH was also strong enough to break the Juggernaut's kneecaps. Wasn't that the same Juggernaut that fought WW Hulk at Xavier's school? Again this is not about BM, or Sentry. Not sure why you brought that into this thread?

Also just look for any fight that Thor has had with the Abomination, and any fight that Hercules has had with him while you're at it. This shows that he is not always Herald level, it also shows that he takes a considerable amount of time to ramp up to that level. No one has to give him that time. If this was the Hulk at his WW Hulk power control levels I can see him going up against Sungod, and winning. I'm only saying that the current Hulk has to prove that he can win against the big challenges, and can not be given any wins until he proves that he can actually win. Indestructible Hulk has done nothing to make me believe that he would beat the Surfer, or Morg. No offense intended. Don't take it personally, you did not create the Hulk, and the writer's do not agree that this Hulk, can do the things that WW Hulk era Hulk could do. It's obvious Carver.

Originally posted by carver9
Superman and Hulk (starts off pissed) team up in a physical matchup (fist fight) to take on a group of contenders. Can they clear this? Where do they stop?

Remember, this is a fist fight. The cage is closed and made of adamantium. The ring is 8 times the size of the WWF ring. Supes and Hulk is fully healed between each round but each match starts seconds apart (10 sec max). The only way to win is knock out.

Contestants.

1. Colossus, Thing, Sasquash, Korg
2. Morlun, Terrax, Titania
3. Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel (can charge his fist)
4. Champion, Dumb Drax (no gem for either)
5. Thor, Beta Ray Bill
6. Silver Surfer, Morg, Firelord
7. Rematch - Champion, Drax -both have Power gem
8. Thanos, Darkseid
9. Monarch, Superboy Prime
10. Zeus, Odin (ability to amp physical stat)

How far do they get.

Stop at 8, Thanos goes down though.

^How do they get past 7? I see an argument being made for 6, but 7?