Prodigal Knight Story vs Jedi Exile Story vs Jedi Knight Story

Started by AncientPower7 pages

Set him free, that was some brutal stuff, I never could manage to go Closed Fist very well.

Back on topic, I did actually like the Hero of Tython story but I agree with others that the whole 'you're superman' shtick got old quick.

Ranking as per my liking:

1. KoTOR - Prodigal Knight
2. SWTOR - Jedi Knight
3. KoTOR II - Jedi Exile

Comments about each:-

1. My favorite is Prodigal Knight story. It is a story of redemption with classic Star Wars feel.

2. Jedi Knight story is OK but I find it excessively long and linear. On top of this, final confrontation with Emperor have been extremely poorly done.

3. KoTOR II deviated from classic Star Wars themes and concepts and introduced utterly garbage concepts of Marvel and Dragon Ball Z Universes to Star Wars lore. I don't find the planet-munching, Force-busting and Wound creation concepts intriguing and convincing in any way of form. On top of this KoTOR II totally ruined Revan's heroic efforts to stop the Sith menace from spreading, cheapened Revan's accomplishment in the battle of Malachor V, and over-complicated the concept of Force Drain. I find Mr. Karpyshyn's treatment of Jedi Exile (nonsense) a befitting response to the mess created by Obsidian. Even Mr. Chris Avellone admitted once that if he had played KoTOR I earlier, KoTOR II would have been a vastly different project. The only positive aspect of KoTOR II is character of Darth Traya.

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No pun intended to fans of KoTOR II lore between.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I find Mr. Karpyshyn's treatment of Jedi Exile (nonsense) a befitting response to the mess created by Obsidian.

If you think that's an appropriate action you have the mental age of a five year old.

Originally posted by Selenial
If you think that's an appropriate action you have the mental age of a five year old.

Nah, Meetra is the worst jedi ever written. I'm glad she died like a worthless loser. 😈

Originally posted by Sinious
Nah, Meetra is the worst jedi ever written. I'm glad she died like a worthless loser. 😈

That I can agree with. Karpyshyn's Surik was a disgrace.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Ranking as per my liking:

1. KoTOR - Prodigal Knight
2. SWTOR - Jedi Knight
3. KoTOR II - Jedi Exile

Comments about each:-

1. My favorite is Prodigal Knight story. It is a story of redemption with classic Star Wars feel.

2. Jedi Knight story is OK but I find it excessively long and linear. On top of this, final confrontation with Emperor have been extremely poorly done.

3. KoTOR II deviated from classic Star Wars themes and concepts and introduced utterly garbage concepts of Marvel and Dragon Ball Z Universes to Star Wars lore. I don't find the planet-munching, Force-busting and Wound creation concepts intriguing and convincing in any way of form. On top of this KoTOR II totally ruined Revan's heroic efforts to stop the Sith menace from spreading, cheapened Revan's accomplishment in the battle of Malachor V, and over-complicated the concept of Force Drain. I find Mr. Karpyshyn's treatment of Jedi Exile (nonsense) a befitting response to the mess created by Obsidian. Even Mr. Chris Avellone admitted once that if he had played KoTOR I earlier, KoTOR II would have been a vastly different project. The only positive aspect of KoTOR II is character of Darth Traya.

---

No pun intended to fans of KoTOR II lore between.

Excellent.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Set him free, that was some brutal stuff, I never could manage to go Closed Fist very well.

Back on topic, I did actually like the Hero of Tython story but I agree with others that the whole 'you're superman' shtick got old quick.

Lol My moral compass is too damn high too and yeah, being superior to everyone kind of gets dull after a while

Originally posted by Selenial
That I can agree with. Karpyshyn's Surik was a disgrace.

👆 Karpshyn might as well have just given a cardboard cut-out a lightsaber

Originally posted by Selenial
That I can agree with. Karpyshyn's Surik was a disgrace.

😕

I was trying to get you mad. Damn it I should've said "The Exile"

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
3. KoTOR II deviated from classic Star Wars themes and concepts and introduced utterly garbage concepts of Marvel and Dragon Ball Z Universes to Star Wars lore. I don't find the planet-munching, Force-busting and Wound creation concepts intriguing and convincing in any way of form. On top of this KoTOR II totally ruined Revan's heroic efforts to stop the Sith menace from spreading, cheapened Revan's accomplishment in the battle of Malachor V, and over-complicated the concept of Force Drain. I find Mr. Karpyshyn's treatment of Jedi Exile (nonsense) a befitting response to the mess created by Obsidian. Even Mr. Chris Avellone admitted once that if he had played KoTOR I earlier, KoTOR II would have been a vastly different project. The only positive aspect of KoTOR II is character of Darth Traya.

---

No pun intended to fans of KoTOR II lore between.

You have no comprehension of anything that happened in the game apparently:

1.KotOR II didn't introduce any of those elements, the Dark Empire series which had Lucas involvement did, but you'd know that if you had researched the production of Dark Empire.

2.Revan's efforts were exactly as described in the KotOR game, KotOR II merely expanded the same references, in-fact KotOR II gives Revan more praise than the game you play as him in.

3.Revan's accomplishment in the Battle of Malachor V was created in KotOR II, how exactly does something cheapen what it created?

4.Force Drain has been usable in such ways in both Dark Empire and Tales of the Jedi, series created decades before KotOR II ever released.

5.What Selenial stated.

6.Avellone also stated that LucasArts would not allow them to play the game first, but I'm sure you knew that.

If the only thing people got out of KotOR II was planet-busting and stuff like that then you are clearly blind to the statements the game was trying to make.

"Power? Do you think so, you would be wrong."

"It is an empty road to the Dark Side."

Nihilus isn't power, he is a black hole created because of the horrors of Malachor V, if you think planet busting super Dark Lord is the point of Nihilus then you weren't paying attention.

He is a raw presence, a spot in the Force that exists solely to destroy and absorb, his power is not the point, the futility of journeying down the dark path is.

Originally posted by AncientPower
1.KotOR II didn't introduce any of those elements, the Dark Empire series which had Lucas involvement did, but you'd know that if you had researched the production of Dark Empire.

When was gigadrain ever used in dark empire? Nor did it introduce force wounds.

Originally posted by AncientPower
4.Force Drain has been usable in such ways in both Dark Empire and Tales of the Jedi, series created decades before KotOR II ever released.

Show me someone using it. And no, Exar Kun draining the Massassi is not all that similar as they were willing participants in a ritual. Ultimately, no one in the comics use it as an attack, and no one ever states it to be unblockable. I've got no problem with the basic concept of drain, but I hated how KotOR 2 presented a new version of drain that could be used on a far vaster scale and is basically Avada Kedavra.

Originally posted by AncientPower
If the only thing people got out of KotOR II was planet-busting and stuff like that then you are clearly blind to the statements the game was trying to make.

"Power? Do you think so, you would be wrong."

"It is an empty road to the Dark Side."

Nihilus isn't power, he is a black hole created because of the horrors of Malachor V, if you think planet busting super Dark Lord is the point of Nihilus then you weren't paying attention.

He is a raw presence, a spot in the Force that exists solely to destroy and absorb, his power is not the point, the futility of journeying down the dark path is.

And? I enjoy the themes behind Nihilus but making him the Star Wars equivalent of Galactus is frankly ridiculous. Admittedly, Nihilus isn't the only Sith I think that wields far too much power and I find it moronic that SWL seems fine with Vitiate while bitching about Nihilus.

Originally posted by ares834
When was gigadrain ever used in dark empire? Nor did it introduce force wounds.

Sidious freely absorbed the life force of 18 Billion beings on Byss without them knowing about it, Luke states that he felt as if his power was being siphoned by Sidious' very presence.

Luke fears that something extremely similar was left behind when Byss was destroyed.

Show me someone using it. And no, Exar Kun draining the Massassi is not all that similar as they were willing participants in a ritual. Ultimately, no one in the comics use it as an attack, and no one ever states it to be unblockable. I've got no problem with the basic concept of drain, but I hated how KotOR 2 presented a new version of drain that could be used on a far vaster scale and is basically Avada Kedavra.

Force Drain on a mass scale was introduced by Dark Empire and expanded upon in TOTJ, KotOR II merely expanded further on the most extremes of this technique.

And? I enjoy the themes behind Nihilus but making him the Star Wars equivalent of Galactus is frankly ridiculous. Admittedly, Nihilus isn't the only Sith I think that wields far too much power and I find it moronic that SWL seems fine with Vitiate while bitching about Nihilus. [/B]

It is not ridiculous, are we forgetting one of the most iconic lines from the OT? "The ability to destroy a planet is nothing compared to the power of the Force."
Nihilus was not the first and in-fact represents something far more than Sith that can nom planets, but that the entire path to ultimate power always ends the same way, an empty road to the Dark Side.

Sidious was going to do something similar to increase his power, Vitiate is well-known to want to absorb all life in the galaxy.

This is a pattern, Nihilus is just one dot.

Giga-Drain more like an extreme Force Sever, not Force Drain, honestly.

I have to admit, the best thing about the Knight story was the companions. They were some of the best written companions in the game, bar Doc. Scourge was pretty meh I guess, too. But the others?

Kira was raised as a Sith from birth, she's struggling constantly to become something she was always trained not to be, and she can't hide the fact that a lot of her inner thoughts are dark and disturbing.

T7's seen some horrible things, he's always wanted to find a life without battle and without the constant fear of loosing a Master, as all he remembers is Death, only to get shoved into a crew who are basically on a suicide Mission.

And Rusk, he saw all of his friends killed, was tortured, and has turned into one of the most disturbing people in the game. He has no regard for life in the slightest, which actually makes him an exemplary soldier. He no longer is willing to gain any sort of attachments to people, and even yearns for his own death. He actually wanted to face the Emperor because, and I quote "The chances of me surviving an encounter with the Emperor are almost 0"... He actually wants it ended.

They've got nothing on the Kotor 2 crew, but those companions are the reason I find it a close 2nd to Kotor.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Sidious freely absorbed the life force of 18 Billion beings on Byss without them knowing about it, Luke states that he felt as if his power was being siphoned by Sidious' very presence.

Luke fears that something extremely similar was left behind when Byss was destroyed.

And yet, the drain is quite different than how it is presented in KotOR II. It's slow and never utilized as an unblockable attack.

Also I'm not inclined to believe Byss is a wound. A dark side nexus, sure, but a place that sucks up force energy eh...

Originally posted by AncientPower
Force Drain on a mass scale was introduced by Dark Empire and expanded upon in TOTJ, KotOR II merely expanded further on the most extremes of this technique.

And therin lies the problem. I can't speak for SWL, but I'm fine with how drain was in those stories but hated how KotOR II presented gigadrain.

Originally posted by AncientPower
It is not ridiculous, are we forgetting one of the most iconic lines from the OT? "The ability to destroy a planet is nothing compared to the power of the Force."

A complete misinterpretation of that line. We see in ANH that all the Death Star's power is insignificant against the force when Luke uses it to guide him in destroying the Death Star. Or another example in the movie would be how Sidious used the force to help him conquer the galaxy. That is what Vader is talking about. Not the ability for Sith/Jedi to fly around nuing planets with force energy.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Nihilus was not the first and in-fact represents something far more than Sith that can nom planets, but that the entire path to ultimate power always ends the same way, an empty road to the Dark Side.

Sidious was going to do something similar to increase his power, Vitiate is well-known to want to absorb all life in the galaxy.

This is a pattern, Nihilus is just one dot.

Yes. And like I said I'm not a fan of any of these characters being as powerful as they are.

Originally posted by Selenial
If you think that's an appropriate action you have the mental age of a five year old.

Actually your responses indicate that you have yet to mature in life. Seriously, your obsession with your favorite fictional characters to this much extent that you cannot digest any kind of criticism of such characters, is absolutely unhealthy. Get some therapy.

On the contrary, Mr. Karpyshyn made the correct decision to portray a "recovered" Jedi Exile. The Wound philosophy didn't sat well with lore on the whole.

Originally posted by AncientPower
1.KotOR II didn't introduce any of those elements, the Dark Empire series which had Lucas involvement did, but you'd know that if you had researched the production of Dark Empire.

Thanks for the reminder. Dark Empire is likely to be retconned, a step in the right direction.

Originally posted by AncientPower
2.Revan's efforts were exactly as described in the KotOR game, KotOR II merely expanded the same references, in-fact KotOR II gives Revan more praise than the game you play as him in.

Point is not about praise, point is about mindless expansion of the lore. The Sith Empire was seemingly destroyed in the Battle of Rakata Prime and Revan became a savior of the galaxy. Instead, KoTOR II expanded the KoTOR I lore with missing Revan, devastation of the Jedi Order, a Republic lacking any viable military force to tackle external threats, and return of Sith in full force.

Originally posted by AncientPower
3.Revan's accomplishment in the Battle of Malachor V was created in KotOR II, how exactly does something cheapen what it created?

I think that you need assistance in recalling some stuff as well. The Battle of Malachor V was first referenced in KoTOR I by Canderous. Following are his statements:

"I still remember that final battle in the skies above Malachor V. The two fleets filling the space around it, outshining the stars..."

&

"It was not your ships or your men or your vaunted 'fight for freedom' that won this, the final battle of the war. It was by the actions of one person–the Jedi Revan–that you prevailed. Revan's strategies and tactics defeated the best of us. Even Mandalore himself was taken aback by the ferocity, the tenacity, and the subtlety of Revan's plans."

And how exactly KoTOR II cheapened this battle? By introducing Mass Shadow Generator and a trigger-happy Jedi general.

Originally posted by AncientPower
4.Force Drain has been usable in such ways in both Dark Empire and Tales of the Jedi, series created decades before KotOR II ever released.

I have been through this debate before. Your point is misplaced.

Originally posted by AncientPower
5.What Selenial stated.

Then you also need therapy for condoning mindless insulting that was totally unwarranted.

Originally posted by AncientPower
6.Avellone also stated that LucasArts would not allow them to play the game first, but I'm sure you knew that.

Do you have proof?

Mr. Avellone played KoTOR I during the time of development of KoTOR II to familiarize himself with the background. He regretted the blunder of KoTOR II afterwards.

Originally posted by AncientPower
If the only thing people got out of KotOR II was planet-busting and stuff like that then you are clearly blind to the statements the game was trying to make.

"Power? Do you think so, you would be wrong."

"It is an empty road to the Dark Side."

Nihilus isn't power, he is a black hole created because of the horrors of Malachor V, if you think planet busting super Dark Lord is the point of Nihilus then you weren't paying attention.

He is a raw presence, a spot in the Force that exists solely to destroy and absorb, his power is not the point, the futility of journeying down the dark path is.


The entire concept and philosophy behind Darth Nihilus is cheap and poorly thought-out, IMO. In shortest terms, Darth Nihilus is a malfunctioning Wound.

Originally posted by ares834
A complete misinterpretation of that line. We see in ANH that all the Death Star's power is insignificant against the force when Luke uses it to guide him in destroying the Death Star. Or another example in the movie would be how Sidious used the force to help him conquer the galaxy. That is what Vader is talking about. Not the ability for Sith/Jedi to fly around nuing planets with force energy.

One of the finest interpretations and display of intellect. I have newfound respect for you. 👆

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Actually your responses indicate that you have yet to mature in life. Seriously, your obsession with your favorite fictional characters to this much extent that you cannot digest any kind of criticism of such characters, is absolutely unhealthy. Get some therapy.

I... I'm not really sure how to respond to this. Suffice it to say, Seleniel simply wanted you to understand "the ground realities" of one of her favorite characters.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I... I'm not really sure how to respond to this. Suffice it to say, Seleniel simply wanted you to understand "the ground realities" of one of her favorite characters.

She could so without insulting me.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
She could so without insulting me.

Yes indeed. I'm merely saying that calling her out on her rudeness is something that is well within your rights to do, but calling her out on fixating over a character isn't exactly something you can convincingly do here.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
I... I'm not really sure how to respond to this. Suffice it to say, Seleniel simply wanted you to understand "the ground realities" of one of her favorite characters.
😂

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yes indeed. I'm merely saying that calling her out on her rudeness is something that is well within your rights to do, but calling her out on fixating over a character isn't exactly something you can convincingly do here.

I don't insult others for criticizing my favorite characters.