Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The number tree. 😂Math is not the symbols. Meth is something basic in the universe. What is your educational level?
What is your educational level?
Math were created by men. Mathematical principles are archetypical at best, you might as well say chairs were discovered.
Originally posted by Bentley
What is your educational level?Math were created by men. Mathematical principles are archetypical at best, you might as well say chairs were discovered.
I have a BS degree. And you are wrong, just go ask a mathematician. Mathematics at its purest form is intrinsic to nature.
Now what is your educational level?
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I have a BS degree. And you are wrong, just go ask a mathematician. Mathematics at its purest form is intrinsic to nature.Now what is your educational level?
I did spoke about it with a Ph. D. in mathematics who immediately dismissed the idea as misinformed. But of course, the important part of the argument is not an official stance but the origin of our mutual misunderstanding.
The thing you're calling the "purest form" of mathematics it's just an archetype. Every cognitive structure has an archetype, hence, acording to your reasoning, chairs are intrinsic to nature.
I'm bac + 4 in computer science and litterature
🤣
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I have a BS degree. And you are wrong, just go ask a mathematician. Mathematics at its purest form is intrinsic to nature.Now what is your educational level?
Mathematics, in its purest form, is set theory. More on point, it is a descriptive philosophy/approach to creating a language that explains our experiences and thoughts.
If this is what you meant, above, ignore my post.
To answer the OP:
My position on the matter is that, to date, I've been provided no examples or evidence of anything supernatural existing. I'm not simply talking about Abrahamic Religious Beings (God, Angels, Demons, 'Holy Spirit', Souls). I've been presented nothing that would suggest that supernatural energy, beings, or events exist outside of fictional stories and anecdotes. Gods, Demigods, Titans, Fates, Cyclopsi, Minotaurs, Satyrs, Centaurs, Wraiths, Ghosts, Spirits, Poltergeists, Trolls, Fairies, Djinn, Genies, Dragons, Vampires, Zombies, Resurrections, Reincarnations, Transubstantiation, Magic Spells, Sorcery, etc. On that basis I find the proposition of "A Creator", as described by most theists in reference to an all powerful supernatural being, irrational, because presupposing the existence of a supernatural God without establishing the existence of the supernatural to begin with seems illogical. Without determining and demonstrating that the supernatural exists, and what it consists of, I can't accept claims regarding the supernatural, be it a haunting of an old house, a super strong Titan holding up the world on his shoulders, a 30 foot tall lumberjack with a blue ox, a reoccurring war amongst a pantheon of gods that periodically resurrects after a 'final battle', a supernatual being in a sleeping state within we all exist in it's dreams, or a being so powerful it can spontaneously create all existence with a thought. Just as I can't accept claims regarding Alien Abductions without any evidence that intelligent extraterrestrial life not only exists, but is space-faring and has a vested interest and curiosity in the life on Earth to the point of wanting to abduct and perform extensive surgical procedures on humans and cattle, I can't accept claims about supernatural beings existing, influencing, and acting on our planet on a regular basis sans anything to differentiate these claims from a delusion, purposeful lie, or a 'tall tale'.
As for the laws, I find slavery immoral, and Biblical Law (Levitical) allows for it, as well as prescribing rules about the penalties for physically assaulting your slaves, with degrees of severity. I find that unacceptable. I also find stoning disobedient children immoral. That's for starters. There's much more, but I think the point has been made with these two examples alone.
Originally posted by MF DELPHTo answer the OP:
My position on the matter is that, to date, I've been provided no examples or evidence of anything supernatural existing ...
Without determining and demonstrating that the supernatural exists, and what it consists of, I can't accept claims regarding the supernatural ...
I can't accept claims about supernatural beings existing, influencing, and acting on our planet on a regular basis sans anything to differentiate these claims from a delusion, purposeful lie, or a 'tall tale' ...
I read this and come to the conclusion "MF DELPH, like many, many others, does not fully know what exists in nature and does not fully know what THAT consists of, or even have a definition for it. He dismisses the supernatural because he does not even have the first defined as he just TOLD us above in his previous post."
The rest of the post strikes me as emotional reasoning or reasoning from sheer distaste or sense of injustice, and I might make a second post to cover that, but the first part simply strikes me as dismissal without examination.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Scientist are not looking for a missing link. I changeling you to learn something about evolution. If you took the time to learn, you might change your mind.However, evolution is not part of this thread.
What's so fictional about The Bible?
Many of the stories are unbelievable. People living inside of a fish, a super strong man as long as his hair is long, people walking in fire, raising the dead and talking snakes. These are all things that would be found in a fictional book of today.
I can see how it may be hard to visualize those specific events happening. Although, they're not entirely impossible or too far fetched. There are large animals that dwell under water, perhaps back then there was a certain type that isn't around today sort of like the dinosaurs. The Nazarite Vow involved more than just long hair, and I don't doubt divine intervention back then. Certain things that can't be accomplished or accounted for presently, just don't seem unheard of to me. People walk through fire in our modern era.
I find many elements of the Bible throughout fiction, but I have yet to find reason to doubt a superior being. There's a certain aspect of mystery and delicacy about the Bible that every other book or theory lacks that just can't be emulated, or just simply can't account for.
I appreciate your reply though.
Re: What's so fictional about The Bible?
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I think the laws of the Bible, though you'd have to specify which ones you're referring to, are, in general, effective worldwide.But as for the main question "What's so fictional about the Bible"?, it's worth pointing out that SO much stuff has proven true from the Bible, that there is a book called "The Bible as History" that points out some of the remarkable accuracy it has in describing how things are even today.
I started the following as one of my first threads and you can find some corroboration for that assertion after clicking the link.
Note even the miraculous manna and quail are readily explained in this book:
I was actually thinking that I should have specified earlier, it would have helped a lot. I meant along the lines of...."thou shall not covet they neighbor," if such and such nation just minded their business. That would reduce conflict, and the like. And the Bible basically says don't be lazy, or greedy...or murder. If applied to all aspects of life, how wouldn't this be the way to live?
and also thanks. I'll check this out in a bit.
Originally posted by Jynocidus
I can see how it may be hard to visualize those specific events happening. Although, they're not entirely impossible or too far fetched. There are large animals that dwell under water, perhaps back then there was a certain type that isn't around today sort of like the dinosaurs. The Nazarite Vow involved more than just long hair, and I don't doubt divine intervention back then. Certain things that can't be accomplished or accounted for presently, just don't seem unheard of to me. People walk through fire in our modern era.I find many elements of the Bible throughout fiction, but I have yet to find reason to doubt a superior being. There's a certain aspect of mystery and delicacy about the Bible that every other book or theory lacks that just can't be emulated, or just simply can't account for.
I appreciate your reply though.
That's fine. You can believe whatever you want to. To me, taking the bible literally is misses the point. Most of the bible is fiction, but important fiction. There are good reasons for these stories to have been saved from the ravages of time. The main difference between you and I is that I don't think the bible being fiction (mostly) is a bad thing.
Originally posted by MF DELPH
To answer the OP:My position on the matter is that, to date, I've been provided no examples or evidence of anything supernatural existing. I'm not simply talking about Abrahamic Religious Beings (God, Angels, Demons, 'Holy Spirit', Souls). I've been presented nothing that would suggest that supernatural energy, beings, or events exist outside of fictional stories and anecdotes. Gods, Demigods, Titans, Fates, Cyclopsi, Minotaurs, Satyrs, Centaurs, Wraiths, Ghosts, Spirits, Poltergeists, Trolls, Fairies, Djinn, Genies, Dragons, Vampires, Zombies, Resurrections, Reincarnations, Transubstantiation, Magic Spells, Sorcery, etc. On that basis I find the proposition of "A Creator", as described by most theists in reference to an all powerful supernatural being, irrational, because presupposing the existence of a supernatural God without establishing the existence of the supernatural to begin with seems illogical. Without determining and demonstrating that the supernatural exists, and what it consists of, I can't accept claims regarding the supernatural, be it a haunting of an old house, a super strong Titan holding up the world on his shoulders, a 30 foot tall lumberjack with a blue ox, a reoccurring war amongst a pantheon of gods that periodically resurrects after a 'final battle', a supernatual being in a sleeping state within we all exist in it's dreams, or a being so powerful it can spontaneously create all existence with a thought. Just as I can't accept claims regarding Alien Abductions without any evidence that intelligent extraterrestrial life not only exists, but is space-faring and has a vested interest and curiosity in the life on Earth to the point of wanting to abduct and perform extensive surgical procedures on humans and cattle, I can't accept claims about supernatural beings existing, influencing, and acting on our planet on a regular basis sans anything to differentiate these claims from a delusion, purposeful lie, or a 'tall tale'.
As for the laws, I find slavery immoral, and Biblical Law (Levitical) allows for it, as well as prescribing rules about the penalties for physically assaulting your slaves, with degrees of severity. I find that unacceptable. I also find stoning disobedient children immoral. That's for starters. There's much more, but I think the point has been made with these two examples alone.
It's not irrational to me to think that slavery, punishment, and other forms of discomfort are the result of not following directions spoken of in that book, especially when the entire world to this day can't get it right. Like, who's to say ..."magic"... wouldn't happen if all people sync to the same frame of mind? That hasn't been tried yet, but people want to look for where the Creator is...and they're still deciding which one is the right one. Even if they did, it wouldn't be for the right purpose. What if things are unlocked because people think a star died for us? Is that not a rule spoken of in this book regarded as a tale? 😆
Even in that book, some things are written of to be secret. You said yourself, you see no evidence of supernatural. And while I agree that much of the mythology you posted is definitely not to be taken literally, to this day there is no reason for the Bible to be disregarded. Correction needs to take place throughout the lands before anyone can say anything, IMO. And the odds of that happening... 😘
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
The transition from nonliving to living ... of the first living thing.
And you know life was caused by supernatural means based on what, exactly? What was your methodology to come to this conclusion? How did you go about eliminating all other possibilities for the beginnings of biology? How did you determine what those other possibilities were in order to eliminate them?
Originally posted by Jynocidus
It's not irrational to me to think that slavery, punishment, and other forms of discomfort are the result of not following directions spoken of in that book, especially when the entire world to this day can't get it right. Like, who's to say ..."magic"... wouldn't happen if all people sync to the same frame of mind? That hasn't been tried yet, but people want to look for where the Creator is...and they're still deciding which one is the right one. Even if they did, it wouldn't be for the right purpose. What if things are unlocked because people think a star died for us? Is that not a rule spoken of in this book regarded as a tale? 😆Even in that book, some things are written of to be secret. You said yourself, you see no evidence of supernatural. And while I agree that much of the mythology you posted is definitely not to be taken literally, to this day there is no reason for the Bible to be disregarded. Correction needs to take place throughout the lands before anyone can say anything, IMO. And the odds of that happening... 😘
I think you misunderstand me. Leviticus details the means by which the Israelites can enslave other people, as well as eachother, and the rules and bylaws of slavery. Not as 'punishment', but by the right of the chosen people to subjugate non-Israelites. I find the ownership of other people immoral. People aren't property. Moreover, I find racism and xenophobic laws immoral.
As for magic; demonstrate it.