Originally posted by carver9
You're talking about the part where he grabbed one by the neck and it self destruct? Is that the part you are talking about?Which Lanterns? Kyle, Hal, John?
Prime is excellent at holding off teams. Not taking that away from him. Hulk has some outstanding team showings as well. Fought every team on the planet if we want to be direct.
Prime durability is uber. Doesn't mean Superman, Hal, or Superboy can't hurt him.
You know very well that's what I'm talking about.
Again, you know it's mostly nameless Lanterns.
He wasn't holding them off, he was winning. Also, it's a fact that hero teams tend to hold back against the Hulk. And I can't really think of a single team that Hulk has faced that's on that level.
They can't put him down, which is what's important.
Originally posted by Psychotron
It's a nice feat for sure, but it's totally overblown. First, Hulk didn't do all of that under his own power, Red She-hulk supplied 50% of the power. Second, you say Umar couldn't deal with the mindless ones, yet she survived Hulk and Betty's mid-air collision just fine, while they could not. Again, it's a great feat, but it's nothing Prime couldn't replicate.SBP has dozens of cheesy strength feats like that. Punching out of the Phantom Zone, the Retcon Punch, moving planets at ftl speeds, etc. And that's just strength, remember that Prime is fast enough to escape from the Speed Force (Barry needed to absorb the entire Force to return before him, and he was only seconds earlier), HV that can cut through Superman like a knife through butter (even while weakened), and uber durability that lets him punch through the Anti-Monitor and tank BA's punches with a smile. That's just too much for Hulk to deal with.
BTW, I have to laugh at your idea that a daximite with a power ring and Ion would be weaker than Hulk.
Its not totally overblown at all. if anything it is continuously undersold by people who either cannot grasp why it is so impressive or willfully decide to ignore of the factors involved that make it so. In the post you replied to i already explained why even taking into account the fact that Hulk contributed only half the force required for the feat, it is exceedingly impressive.In providing half the force at the the epicentre of a collision whose residual shockwave was capable of disintegrating herald level beings as well as a totality of beings capable of taking down a skyfather level charcater in their own realm...along with the realm itself.....Hulk himself still delivered exponentially exponentially more force than was contained within the shockwave itself that did the damage. Acknowledging that Betty also contributed half of the overall force does not denigrate Hulks contribution as the actual portion of the overall force that acted on the charcaters affected as well as the planet was far far (exponentially) less than half.
Additionally, it was stated within the comic that Umar couldnt defeat the mindless ones under her own power, i didnt make that up. The fact that she was able to survive an attack that they couldnt does not in any way undermine that fact or invalidate it. Unlike the mindless ones, Umar possesses numerous other magical abilities beyond mere physical power and so could have survived the attack through a variety of ways. Furthermore, the singular burst of force involved in the WBH feat is not synonymous to a continuous battle with the mindless ones and so that comparison is absolutely irrelevant.
Also for the strength feats you mentioned regarding Prime, only the planet moving is of comparable scale and even then doesnt have the direct character comparison component. Some of the other like the phantom zone, and recton punch etc are unquantifiable and not good bases for comparisons.
Prime is the much faster character but assuming CIS is on as it us by default he will definitely get hit by Hulk as he was by the numerous characters well below his peak speed. And taking all his feats into account and not just selectively choosing extreme high end ones on which to make nonsensical inferences that go against the totality of his experiences on panel...he will be affected greatly.
While Prime does undoubtedly have great feats they are tempered by his being consistently being hurt by herald level characters (sometimes even lower) and characters who are physically far weaker than WBH. WBH on the other hand has no such issues as his portrayal was consistent in this regard as being far above the capability of herald level force output to even harm. Sodam Yat with the Ion power did absolutely nothing within the range of what WBH did so what I laugh at is your facile argument suggesting that he was in some way more powerful than WBH based off of fallacious reasoning and no demonstrable on panel feat from Yat proving otherwise.
Originally posted by Psychotron
You know very well that's what I'm talking about.Again, you know it's mostly nameless Lanterns.
He wasn't holding them off, he was winning. Also, it's a fact that hero teams tend to hold back against the Hulk. And I can't really think of a single team that Hulk has faced that's on that level.
They can't put him down, which is what's important.
I know exactly what you're talking about. You said he was stomping the Guardian's though. Do you consider that "stomping"?
I agree about the 'no names'.
Holding back against Hulk? Do you think the heros was going all out against Prime?
Why can't they put him down? He has been koed before.
Originally posted by Naija boyI agree with a lot you said, people don't really understand the magnitude of the feat. They simply believe it was a planet destroying feat when in actuality it was astronomically more than that. Basically destroying something from hundreds of yards away without making contact takes at least billions of times more force than destroying it through making direct contact.
Its not totally overblown at all. if anything it is continuously undersold by people who either cannot grasp why it is so impressive or willfully decide to ignore of the factors involved that make it so. In the post you replied to i already explained why even taking into account the fact that Hulk contributed only half the force required for the feat, it is exceedingly impressive.[B]In providing half the force at the the epicentre of a collision whose residual shockwave was capable of disintegrating herald level beings as well as a totality of beings capable of taking down a skyfather level charcater in their own realm...along with the realm itself.....Hulk himself still delivered exponentially exponentially more force than was contained within the shockwave itself that did the damage. Acknowledging that Betty also contributed half of the overall force does not denigrate Hulks contribution as the actual portion of the overall force that acted on the charcaters affected as well as the planet was far far (exponentially) less than half.Additionally, it was stated within the comic that Umar couldnt defeat the mindless ones under her own power, i didnt make that up. The fact that she was able to survive an attack that they couldnt does not in any way undermine that fact or invalidate it. Unlike the mindless ones, Umar possesses numerous other magical abilities beyond mere physical power and so could have survived the attack through a variety of ways. Furthermore, the singular burst of force involved in the WBH feat is not synonymous to a continuous battle with the mindless ones and so that comparison is absolutely irrelevant.
Also for the strength feats you mentioned regarding Prime, only the planet moving is of comparable scale and even then doesnt have the direct character comparison component. Some of the other like the phantom zone, and recton punch etc are unquantifiable and not good bases for comparisons.
Prime is the much faster character but assuming CIS is on as it us by default he will definitely get hit by Hulk as he was by the numerous characters well below his peak speed. And taking all his feats into account and not just selectively choosing extreme high end ones on which to make nonsensical inferences that go against the totality of his experiences on panel...he will be affected greatly.
While Prime does undoubtedly have great feats they are tempered by his being consistently being hurt by herald level characters (sometimes even lower) and characters who are physically far weaker than WBH. WBH on the other hand has no such issues as his portrayal was consistent in this regard as being far above the capability of herald level force output to even harm. Sodam Yat with the Ion power did absolutely nothing within the range of what WBH did so what I laugh at is your facile argument suggesting that he was in some way more powerful than WBH based off of fallacious reasoning and no demonstrable on panel feat from Yat proving otherwise. [/B]
With that said, it is not always CIS that Prime sometimes gets hit by much slower beings. Sometimes Its just the writer ignoring his powers (super reflexes). Speed and reflexes must sometimes be ignored for the sake of the plot due to it making comics short and boring. That's why the flash example was used to explain the " fight at full capacity rule".
Prime does have some low showings though. But some of them can be easily dismissed as PIS, in which does not affect his overall portrayal (no PIS rule).
Superman himself has feats coming close to what WBH has done (holding at least 10 solar masses, surviving big bangs and super nova, etc) showing that it wouldn't be far fetch to believe at his highest that he can affect prime.
So assuming Prime fights with full capacity and has a decent portion of his highest feats ability then this would be a good fight. I do believe that WBH would hit him harder than the other way around but I believe Prime would hit WB far more times. I believe the ratio of hits would be more than 10:1. So again, it's a decent fight either way.
Originally posted by h1a8
I agree with a lot you said, people don't really understand the magnitude of the feat. They simply believe it was a planet destroying feat when in actuality it was astronomically more than that. Basically destroying something from hundreds of yards away without making contact takes at least billions of times more force than destroying it through making direct contact.With that said, it is not always CIS that Prime sometimes gets hit by much slower beings. Sometimes Its just the writer ignoring his powers (super reflexes). Speed and reflexes must sometimes be ignored for the sake of the plot due to it making comics short and boring. That's why the flash example was used to explain the " fight at full capacity rule".
Prime does have some low showings though. But some of them can be easily dismissed as PIS, in which does not affect his overall portrayal (no PIS rule).
Superman himself has feats coming close to what WBH has done (holding at least 10 solar masses, surviving big bangs and super nova, etc) showing that it wouldn't be far fetch to believe at his highest that he can affect prime.So assuming Prime fights with full capacity and has a decent portion of his highest feats ability then this would be a good fight. I do believe that WBH would hit him harder than the other way around but I believe Prime would hit WB far more times. I believe the ratio of hits would be more than 10:1. So again, it's a decent fight either way.
So Stalemate? This is what happens when attempting to pick apart perfection.
Originally posted by carver9Why would they carv? Prime was going to kill them all and would have succeeded if not for the guardian.
I know exactly what you're talking about. You said he was stomping the Guardian's though. Do you consider that "stomping"?I agree about the 'no names'.
Holding back against Hulk? Do you think the heros was going all out against Prime?
Why can't they put him down? He has been koed before.
Care to point out the times he's being koed?
Anyway i don't see the point of this debate, will you ever acept the fact that prime wins this? Don't think so.
Originally posted by Reflassshh
Why would they carv? Prime was going to kill them all and would have succeeded if not for the guardian.Care to point out the times he's being koed?
Anyway i don't see the point of this debate, will you ever acept the fact that prime wins this? Don't think so.
Why does prime win? Where are all of these poor showings of the Hulk? Prime had them, but I never saw WB Hulk have even one poor showing. How does prime win aside from biased wishing? Show me one chink in the Hulk's armor. Just one.
Originally posted by Stoic
Why does prime win? Where are all of these poor showings of the Hulk? Prime had them, but I never saw WB Hulk have even one poor showing. How does prime win aside from biased wishing? Show me one chink in the Hulk's armor. Just one.
So your just going to argue that because Prime has some low feats that automatically makes him lose.
K.
Originally posted by Stoic
Why does prime win? Where are all of these poor showings of the Hulk? Prime had them, but I never saw WB Hulk have even one poor showing. How does prime win aside from biased wishing? Show me one chink in the Hulk's armor. Just one.
Why can't he speed blitz him and smash him hundreds of times in the face until KO?
Originally posted by Werewolf582
So your just going to argue that because Prime has some low feats that automatically makes him lose.K.
No. I can't consciously give either of them the win. Instead I said stalemate. You on the other hand seem to want to give one a win over the other. I can't see any glaring weaknesses in either. What is your take? Speed vs Constant and immediate amplification. It's not so easy to give either the win, when they were both written up to the levels that they were.
Originally posted by Stoic
Why does prime win? Where are all of these poor showings of the Hulk? Prime had them, but I never saw WB Hulk have even one poor showing. How does prime win aside from biased wishing? Show me one chink in the Hulk's armor. Just one.
By that reasoning, that Hulk should beat Galactus, since that Hulk has no low showing when Galactus has a ton load.
Originally posted by SquallX
By that reasoning, that Hulk should beat Galactus, since that Hulk has no low showing when Galactus has a ton load.
With this reasoning SB Prime would beat Galactus, because the no limits fallacy only applies when another character has the ability to challenge anything that has Super written on it. This is no reason to make claims for one or the other. One of these characters has low showings while the other does not.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Why can't he speed blitz him and smash him hundreds of times in the face until KO?
What makes you claim that he would have the power to KO him with all of these strikes to the face instead of the hulk just growing stronger, and more resistant to harm? Was SB Prime infinitely powerful? How does anyone even begin to make any claims when both were written up so high? From what I saw of the collision between the Hulk, and Betty, and the aftermath, I didn't see anything but destruction, and yet I have read people making claims that it was only a planet that was turned to rubble by an indirect impact.
Not one low showing... Not even one. Do you still want to continue adding to what appears to be baseless claims made by others?
Originally posted by Werewolf582
Phantom Zone > Anything Hulk has done
Universal Blast > Anything Hulk has Done
Monarch > Anyone hulk had faced
Based on what?
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Everyone in that scan would have been turned to dust by WB Hulk. And it would take less than Galactus to do so.
Originally posted by StoicNo limits fallacy at its finest.
Why does prime win? Where are all of these poor showings of the Hulk? Prime had them, but I never saw WB Hulk have even one poor showing. How does prime win aside from biased wishing? Show me one chink in the Hulk's armor. Just one.
Just because WB hulk "hasn't low showins" doesn't mean he is superior to prime. Prime's highest feats trump hulk's feats. that's a fact, flash fact.
You like to only talk about prime low showings while at the same time you admittedly haven't read his stories. That's not how fights should be debated.
Hulk will keep amping himself? That's good, prime just will hit him harder and faster until hulk is nothing more than a green pile of goo.