Originally posted by DARTH POWER
You kidding me? ILS keeps repeating the same s***. "Maul was just an expendable assassin"What's his source? Some outdated Legends sh** totally contradicted by Lucas, TCW and even the Official site.
A mere assassin isn't trained to be a scheming master mind. Trying to make those things fit is clearly grasping for straws.
Was Maul expendable? Yes. Maul pretty much confirmed that's the reason he hated Sidious (SOD). Not to mention that in "The Lost One," it's confirmed that Dooku was already dubbed the name Darth Tyrannus while Maul was still Sidious's apprentice, which is a big hint that Sidious was planning on replacing Maul.
While serving Sidious, did Maul ever accomplish anything other than assassinating people for Sidious? From what we know of, no. Does that conclude that Maul wasn't trained to be a scheming mastermind? No.
Can you quote anything from ILS that contradicts canon?
Originally posted by ILS
Because an assassin who is a mastermind tends to be pretty good at his job, i.e separating Kenobi and Jinn during their duel and basically controlling the entire engagement.Plus, "scheming mastermind" isn't an occupation. Assassin is an occupation. Assassin was his only occupation.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66His only occupation was assassin. He did nothing but be an assassin.
You are completely and utterly changing your stance though on what Maul is, though.
Being "nothing but" or "just" an assassin implies he cannot do anything else or wasn't trained to either.
Sure, you can say that being a mastermind helps, but you are changing the intention of what you meant originally.
Scheming mastermind is an attribute, not an occupation.
I haven't changed my stance on anything, you're just failing to properly interpret what I'm saying because you seem to think being "nothing but an assassin" literally means that Maul can't do anything else other than kill people, which is obviously not the case. He speaks basic, can do a handstand, can see in the dark - but these aren't occupations. So I was right in saying that he was only an assassin, because that was what he was while he was under Sidious.
So are you going to accept that you derailed the conversation and misinterpreted what I said, or will you be persistent?
His occupation is a Sith Apprentice of the Order of the Sith Lords, not "just an assassin." 🙄
No, you just don't know how to explain yourself properly. Maul was trained to be much more then "just an assassin", as shown by his expertise in tactician when forming the Shadow Collective, and his command of the Force.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66Who assassinated people for a living.
His occupation is a Sith Apprentice of the Order of the Sith Lords, not "just an assassin." 🙄No, you just don't know how to explain yourself properly. Maul was trained to be much more then "just an assassin", as shown by his expertise in tactician when forming the Shadow Collective.
So what else exactly was it that Maul did other than assassinating people? Because him being intelligent enough to rally Mandalorians and criminal syndicates behind him doesn't indicate much past that he's smart. Still waiting for some kind of Canon confirmation that Sidious intended to have Maul do more than assassinate people. And I have a feeling I'll be waiting for a long time.
"A deadly, agile Sith Lord trained by the evil Darth Sidious, Darth Maul was a formidable warrior and scheming mastermind. He wielded an intimidating double-bladed lightsaber and fought with a menacing ferocity. Though he fell in battle against Obi-Wan Kenobi, the Zabrak from Dathomir would prove to be much harder to destroy than originally believed."
--StarWars.com Databanks: Darth Maul (http://www.starwars.com/databank/darth-maul)
And nah, the Shadow Collective is a lot more impressive then you are making it out to be. He got the alliance of the Hutts and Mandalorians in like a week.
I don't think that has ever been replicated. Maul's Collective ended up being so much of a threat that Palpatine considered his Order a rival of his own. 😐
Calling Maul as ''Lord'' make no sense either, if Sidious was thinking him just as an ''assassin'' it would be stupid I guess.
Sidious could use someone like Asajj Ventress or Savage Opress, without giving the title of ''Darth'' ...
Again, you're dwelling on this "Scheming mastermind" thing alongside your own conjecture that he was intended to be like General Grievous.
Believe, I'll be the first one to tell you how intelligent Maul is. But just because you "bet" he was going to be like Grievous means little in the way of proving me wrong. Sidious blatantly only ever wanted him to be an assassin.
I'd also love to see someone refute Sidious66, since he brought up some Canon evidence to support my argument that I honestly don't have the effort to go looking for, because TCW is awful.
Originally posted by ILS
Again, you're dwelling on this "Scheming mastermind" thing alongside your own conjecture that he was intended to be like General Grievous.Believe, I'll be the first one to tell you how intelligent Maul is. But just because you "bet" he was going to be like Grievous means little in the way of proving me wrong. Sidious blatantly only ever wanted him to be an assassin.
I'd also love to see someone refute Sidious66, since he brought up some Canon evidence to support my argument that I honestly don't have the effort to go looking for, because TCW is awful.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Maul's Collective ended up being so much of a threat that Palpatine considered his Order a rival of his own. 😐
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Was Maul expendable? Yes.
Maul pretty much confirmed that's the reason he hated Sidious (SOD).
Not to mention that in "The Lost One," it's confirmed that Dooku was already dubbed the name Darth Tyrannus while Maul was still Sidious's apprentice, which is a big hint that Sidious was planning on replacing Maul.
While serving Sidious, did Maul ever accomplish anything other than assassinating people for Sidious?
Does that conclude that Maul wasn't trained to be a scheming mastermind?
And there was the more immediate question of why he hadn’t been killed when the guard had activated the implanted charges in his heart. Had the dark side itself somehow intervened at the last second to save him? The implications of this possibility made Maul catch his breath. For all Darth Sidious’s talk of his role as his apprentice and eventual successor, Maul still felt precious little connection to the Sith grand plan for the galaxy and his place within it. At the Dark Lord’s command, he’d spent years training on Orsis and then on Coruscant in the LiMerge Building, enduring years of privation and the harshest imaginable discipline while awaiting his Master’s visits.---Maul: Lockdown
Originally posted by Marco1907
Calling Maul as ''Lord'' make no sense either, if Sidious was thinking him just as an ''assassin'' it would be stupid I guess.Sidious could use someone like Asajj Ventress or Savage Opress, without giving the title of ''Darth'' ...
Sidious likely intended for Maul to one day do more than just go around killing any threats to his plans, but once he had Dooku, it seems as if Maul was disposable, hence Maul's hatred for both Sidious and Dooku.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Bane considered Zannah disposable too, that's part of the Ro2.
Not sure how that contradicts anything I said.
As I said, Maul was likely intended to do more than go around killing people, but once Sidious found someone more helpful to his plans of galactic domination, he planned on replacing Maul right away. Well, it was hinted at in "The Lost One," seeing how he already gave Dooku his new sith name while Maul was still his apprentice.
What I'm trying to get at, is nothing ILS said is contradicted by canon, and I don't see how people are mis-interpreting what he's saying. All he's saying is Maul did nothing more than go around killing potential threats to Sidious. Even while Maul was still Sidious's apprentice, Dooku was contributing more to Sidious's plans than Maul was, and he was being treated as more than just an assassin. Filoni suggested that Sidious thought he may have found a successor in Maul when he discovered him, but as time went on, Sidious didn't regard him as such. He treated Dooku as a more valuable asset than he did Maul, and it had nothing to do with Dooku having the potential to surpass him, seeing how Lucas confirmed that neither him nor Maul did.