SS4 Gogeta va All

Do we think SSJ2 Vegeta could bloody SSJ4 Goteta? Like ever? Regardless of anger level?

I sure don't

We have no idea how much vegeta amped. and we have no idea to how much power Beerus was even using at the time.

Also it was stated that vegito was superior to a ss4 so. We know that vegito is nothing compared to Beerus. Beerus is at an unfathomable power level. It was said may times in the movie. A level that could never have been reached. Unlike SS4 Gogeta which they were able to reach with normal inferior ki.

Originally posted by bbrem123
Also it was stated that vegito was superior to a ss4 so.

Link?

Originally posted by bbrem123
The only canon source of power level was stopped at the Frieza Saga. So the games should be taken into account. They are made by the creators of DB series. Powerlevels not making sense with feats is the problem with every power level presented to support GT. I will take the games power level created by the makes of DB series over fan made levels.

This just further proves my point that power level don't multiply the way you think they do. And how irrelevant they are post Frieza Saga.

Do you honestly believe Freeza was nearly 3x more powerful than a Cell Junior, or can you take the blinders off for a minute and just admit that the game's power levels are complete shit..?

Originally posted by bbrem123
They don't look that tiny when you see them in the background of a shot while beerus and whis are at the temple. Or when they fly by them on there way to King Kai's planet. You can also tell they are not tiny because you would be able to see objects on them just like you can on King Kai's planet. They clearly look similar to planets in our solar system showing they have atmosphere's and what not. They have all the properties of a larger planet. Unlike King Kai's.

It is quite clear that the 3d effects made every seem close together. Even when they were zooming in and out of the universe itself.

Which is why Whis was so serious on stopping him.

I always find it interesting how differently people(including myself) interpret things like this.

IF they were intended to look like full-sized worlds, Toriyama certainly didn't go out of his way to give us a better frame of reference... They look tiny--akin to Kain Kai's planet, imo.

Originally posted by bbrem123
Ahh you are right. They say stars if im not mistaken.

Originally posted by juggerman
Do we think SSJ2 Vegeta could bloody SSJ4 Goteta? Like ever? Regardless of anger level?

I sure don't

Originally posted by bbrem123
Also it was stated that vegito was superior to a ss4 so.

Translation:
"Merging With Vegeta!
After Goku and Vegeta use a merging item to merge, they become Vegetto! They can furthermore become a Super Saiyan, making them Super Vegetto! After the two strongest people merge, they become the greatest master in the universe! Perhaps even stronger than Super Saiyan 4!"

As you can see, it's got that classic non-committal "perhaps it's like this" thing the guides often do, so there's a built-in degree of uncertainty/ambiguity. Point being: that is absolutely not evidence that Vegito =/>/< SSJ4 Goku. At the end of the day in-universe evidence still trumps ambiguous guidebook excerpts. 👆

they make that mistake when they show the universe at the beginning of the movie. It is just poor animation.

On those pictures you can see distinct atmosphere and enviorments that a small planet like king kai does not have.

But yes it was stated that Beerus can destroy a solar system in an instance.

The power levels are from a canon source. I know you don't like them but it is what it is. That is why power level irrelevant. All your scaling is fan made. They would have taken the same approach in the games if they thought your multipliers were accurate.

This destroys all power scaling theories

Originally posted by bbrem123
they make that mistake when they show the universe at the beginning of the movie. It is just poor animation.

Originally posted by bbrem123
The power levels are from a canon source. I know you don't like them but it is what it is. That is why power level irrelevant. All your scaling is fan made. They would have taken the same approach in the games if they thought your multipliers were accurate.

This destroys all power scaling theories

Originally posted by Galan007
...Especially Z-era SSJ2 Vegeta. SSJ4 Goku would laugh hysterically at his feeble attempts.

That guidebook quote wasn't nearly so black and white...

Translation:
"[b]Merging With Vegeta!
After Goku and Vegeta use a merging item to merge, they become Vegetto! They can furthermore become a Super Saiyan, making them Super Vegetto! After the two strongest people merge, they become the greatest master in the universe! Perhaps even stronger than Super Saiyan 4!"

As you can see, it's got that classic non-committal "perhaps it's like this" thing the guides often do, so there's a built-in degree of uncertainty/ambiguity. Point being: that is absolutely not

evidence that Vegito =/>/< SSJ4 Goku. At the end of the day in-universe evidence still trumps ambiguous guidebook excerpts. 👆 [/B]

I will take that information over made up power level all day long. I know a lot of you guys dont like it but it is what it is.

Originally posted by Galan007
Perhaps, but it still depicts tiny worlds.

So Freeza>>>A Cell Junior, iyo?

I go by feats. Not power level like you.

I point these things out to disprove all this power level nonsense.

You think they just put random power levels in for sh*ts and giggles?

Originally posted by bbrem123
the problem is that there is no actually canon power levels (not including games), feats, and articles like this that show that vegito regarded as a peer to ss4. Which debunks all power scaling again.

I will take that information over made up power level all day long. I know a lot of you guys dont like it but it is what it is.

Lol, your prerogative here is clear: ignore evidence, and/or cherry-pick showings just to make Beerus/SSJG Goku look better. I mean, you're even trying to claim that Freeza>>>a Cell Junior, just because you don't want to admit that the video game PL chart you're referencing is complete BS. It's just silly at this point.

Originally posted by bbrem123
I go by feats. Not power level like you.

I point these things out to disprove all this power level nonsense.

You think they just put random power levels in for sh*ts and giggles?

Do you agree with that? Yes or no.

Oh please. All these sources are far more creditable than any information you have provided. You and your multiplier none sense. Why do you think they say these things? they like to provide fake and irrelevant information for no reason. Sure they do.

You can't even accept the fact the planets beerus destroyed were not tiny. Even when I provided clear facts to how they are much larger. You have your opinion and I have mine.

Originally posted by bbrem123
Oh please. All these sources are far more creditable than any information you have provided. You and your multiplier none sense. Why do you think they say these things? they like to provide fake and irrelevant information for no reason. Sure they do.

And again: Goku himself stated that Baby Vegeta's ki>ALL before him(Z characters included)... And in comparison to some of the more prominent powers in GT, Baby Vegeta was nothing. Should I ignore that statement just because you don't like it?

Originally posted by bbrem123
You can't even accept the fact the planets beerus destroyed were not tiny. Even when I provided clear facts to how they are much larger. You have your opinion and I have mine.

Also, you completely dodged/ignored the question I asked above. Once AGAIN:
According to the video game PL list you're clinging desperately to, Freeza>>>a Cell Junior.

Do you agree with that? Yes or no.

I think no power levels outside of the frieze saga are canon. Including your fake ones that have no feats to back them up. Only theory and empty statements.

But no I do not believe the game power levels. But I would take there creditabiliy over your multipliers. Which are out of control and make no sense.

Outside of obsurd multipliers you have no argument. Even when I debunked them you still proceed to bring them up.

They have no sway over God ki either so again. Irrelevant

Can you show me feats that prove all this power scaling? Also can you provide another power level from the game that is inaccurate?

Originally posted by bbrem123
I think no power levels outside of the frieze saga are canon. Including your fake ones that have no feats to back them up. Only theory and empty statements.

But no I do not believe the game power levels. But I would take there creditabiliy over your multipliers. Which are out of control and make no sense.

Originally posted by bbrem123
Outside of obsurd multipliers you have no argument. Even when I debunked them you still proceed to bring them up.

They have no sway over God ki either so again. Irrelevant

Can you show me feats that prove all this power scaling? Also can you provide another power level from the game that is inaccurate?

"Debunk" implies that you posted some sort of canonical evidence to correct something I've posted(kind of like what I just did with your video game power level chart.) You haven't.

The extent of your alleged 'evidence' has been: "your multipliers are fake. God ki pwns ALL!!!1!111!!!" You haven't provided a shred of legitimate evidence that contradicts anything I've said, while I actually have utilized canon sources/statements/feats in order to thoroughly break down for you why GT>>>Z. Once more: everything I have said here is based exclusively on canon material. Disagree all you'd like, it changes nothing.

It seems like you are just throwing a hissy-fit at this point, because you have no other retort for my posts. /shrug

Originally posted by bbrem123
We have no idea how much vegeta amped. and we have no idea to how much power Beerus was even using at the time.

Vegeta wasn't amped enough to be stronger than any form of Vegetto, that's for sure. Vegetto's power level is Goku's multiplied by Vegeta's. SSJ2 is only 250X base. So say, for example, Goku and Vegeta were at 100,000,000,000 each in base form. That means Vegeta at SSJ2 would be 25,000,000,000,000, 25 trillion. If Goku and Vegeta fused, they'd be at 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, or 10 sextillion. Ridiculously higher, not to mention the rival boost Vegetto gets. Yeah, Vegetto is incomparably stronger than either of the two. Not to mention that Vegeta is weaker than Super Buu, who is weaker than Buutenks, who is weaker than Buuhan, who is weaker than Vegetto. Arguing that Bills is ridiculously stronger than Vegetto is arguing that Vegeta is also stronger than Vegetto, which just isn't true... At all.

Originally posted by bbrem123 Also it was stated that vegito was superior to a ss4 so.

No it wasn't. 👆

Originally posted by bbrem123
We know that vegito is nothing compared to Beerus.

No we don't. That would be insinuating that Vegeta was nothing compared to Bills, which he clearly wasn't. Vegetto is incomparably stronger than Vegeta, being able to dominate someone hundreds of times stronger than someone Vegeta couldn't kill by sacrificing his life as a Majin SSJ2. Not to mention that Vegetto did that IN BASE FORM. For all we know, Vegetto in base might be superior to Bills. However, I already calced this accurately, and SSJ Vegetto is equal to or greater than SSJG Goku. SSJ2 Vegetto is several times stronger than Whiss. 👆

Originally posted by bbrem123
Beerus is at an unfathomable power level. It was said may times in the movie. A level that could never have been reached. Unlike SS4 Gogeta which they were able to reach with normal inferior ki.

Not really.

They said the same things about King Piccolo, Nappa, and Frieza. They were proven wrong. Hell, Whiss one-shotted Bills, and Whiss isn't a god, nor was it implied that he uses godly ki. So what, now Whiss, who has normal ki, is weaker than Bills? 👆

Also, SSJ2 Goku from GT is several times stronger than Whiss, according to statements from Toriyama himself. Let alone SSJ4 anyone, LET ALONE SSJ4 GOGETA. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
Cool, so you agree that the game power levels you mentioned are complete BS, because Freeza is obviously NOT more powerful than a Cell Junior. Glad we clarified that. 👆

😂

"Debunk" implies that you posted some sort of canonical evidence to correct something I've posted(kind of like what I just did with your video game power level chart.) You haven't.

The extent of your alleged 'evidence' has been: "your multipliers are fake. God ki pwns ALL!!!1!111!!!" You haven't provided a shred of legitimate evidence that contradicts anything I've said, while I actually have utilized canon sources/statements/feats in order to thoroughly break down for you why GT>>>Z. Once more: everything I have said here is based exclusively on canon material. Disagree all you'd like, it changes nothing.

It seems like you are just throwing a hissy-fit at this point, because you have no other retort for my posts. /shrug

I'm actually surprised that you are taking the stance of unproven power level and disregard every showing that disprove the power you think they have. But hey whatever floats your boat.

Originally posted by bbrem123
at least go by feats and not made up nonsense. You have no arguemnt in your favor. It is somewhat comical that you think those power level you presented are even accurate. I have giving my stance and others agree with it. So im sorry you get upset with gt begin an inconsistent featless series.

I'm actually surprised that you are taking the stance of unproven power level and disregard every showing that disprove the power you think they have. But hey whatever floats your boat.

Stop throwing a tantrum. It's apparent by now that you don't have a leg to stand on, here. You just can't(or won't) admit it, and are trying to project your angst onto me for whatever reason. Again, it changes nothing. 🙂

Originally posted by Galan007
Like I said: The extent of your alleged 'evidence' has been: "your multipliers are fake. God ki pwns ALL!!!1!111!!!" You haven't provided a shred of legitimate evidence that contradicts anything I've said, while I actually have utilized canon sources/statements/feats in order to thoroughly break down for you why GT>>>Z. Once more: everything I have said here is based exclusively on canon material. Disagree all you'd like, it changes nothing.

Stop throwing a tantrum. It's apparent by now that you don't have a leg to stand on, here. You just can't(or won't) admit it, and are trying to project your angst onto me for whatever reason. Again, it changes nothing. 🙂

Agreed.

Brem belongs on the short bus of this site. 👆

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Vegeta wasn't amped enough to be stronger than any form of Vegetto, that's for sure. Vegetto's power level is Goku's multiplied by Vegeta's. SSJ2 is only 250X base. So say, for example, Goku and Vegeta were at 100,000,000,000 each in base form. That means Vegeta at SSJ2 would be 25,000,000,000,000, 25 trillion. If Goku and Vegeta fused, they'd be at 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, or 10 sextillion. Ridiculously higher, not to mention the rival boost Vegetto gets. Yeah, Vegetto is incomparably stronger than either of the two. Not to mention that Vegeta is weaker than Super Buu, who is weaker than Buutenks, who is weaker than Buuhan, who is weaker than Vegetto. Arguing that Bills is ridiculously stronger than Vegetto is arguing that Vegeta is also stronger than Vegetto, which just isn't true... At all.

again speculation.

as I have shown. Vegito was compared to a ss4. It is plain as day. But you have stick up your as* so I guess you will ignore it an make up some more power level. shrug

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta

No we don't. That would be insinuating that Vegeta was nothing compared to Bills, which he clearly wasn't. Vegetto is incomparably stronger than Vegeta, being able to dominate someone hundreds of times stronger than someone Vegeta couldn't kill by sacrificing his life as a Majin SSJ2. Not to mention that Vegetto did that IN BASE FORM. For all we know, Vegetto in base might be superior to Bills. However, I already calced this accurately, and SSJ Vegetto is equal to or greater than SSJG Goku. SSJ2 Vegetto is several times stronger than Whiss. 👆

Not really.

They said the same things about King Piccolo, Nappa, and Frieza. They were proven wrong. Hell, Whiss one-shotted Bills, and Whiss isn't a god, nor was it implied that he uses godly ki. So what, now Whiss, who has normal ki, is weaker than Bills? 👆

Also, SSJ2 Goku from GT is several times stronger than Whiss, according to statements from Toriyama himself. Let alone SSJ4 anyone, LET ALONE SSJ4 GOGETA. 👆