SS4 Gogeta va All

Originally posted by bbrem123
http://www.comicvine.com/profile/sirmethos/blog/why-power-scaling-doesn-t-work-in-dbz/95665/

Why powerscaling doesnt work

@Q99 it's destroying the universe over a long period of time AND it's not in one blast anyway. City busters can destroy a continent over a period of time and they wouldn't be called continent busters.

Originally posted by banana3
I don't recall Bibidi being mentioned in the quote

Also it seems they only went around wrecking worlds, not blowing them up if the image shown while mentioning it is correct.

They turned hundreds of worlds into dead worlds, to paraphrase

Not that it matters anyhow

Oh it does, just not here.

A SSJ4 has never been hurt by a SSJ2.... and remember, GT base-form Goku and Vegeta > a solar system buster like Perfect Cell. Indeed, base-Goku was not hurt in his fight with Perfect Cell.

>Perfect Cell
>solar system busting

ahahahaha, no

Originally posted by Q99
Yes it is, it's destroying a universe 🙂

A SSJ4 has never been hurt by a SSJ2.... and remember, GT base-form Goku and Vegeta > a solar system buster like Perfect Cell. Indeed, base-Goku was not hurt in his fight with Perfect Cell.

So, in short, you're wrong on multiple levels. You're just ignoring what's shown because it's inconvenient to your conclusion.

That's... silly.

More powerful people who beat the crap out of less powerful people doesn't 'count'?

Keep in mind, this is not just counting-the-power-levels stuff, this is actual feats, who beats whom and by how much.

(And GT still has the best physical-strength-feats...)

Heck, it has Z beat simply due to the fact of having a feat, period.

With Z, it's mostly stuff like knocking each other through mountains, or Gotenks volleyball spiking Buu into a crater (To be fair, it was a large crater.)

Then there's cartoony feats like Tao Pie Pie throwing stone columns and trees, then leaping on them as cross city transportation.

Not much to work with for strength.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
>Perfect Cell
>solar system busting

ahahahaha, no

@cdtm SSJ2 Gohan pulverized the Cell JRs which have large planet+ durability in one punch

Originally posted by banana3
Anime SPC is a solar system buster.

@cdtm SSJ2 Gohan pulverized the Cell JRs which have large planet+ durability in one punch

Based on what feat is even anime Cell solar system busting?

Originally posted by Q99
No time limit. He can mess around and still win.

Originally posted by Q99
No time limit. He can mess around and still win.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Based on what feat is even anime Cell solar system busting?

While doing his final kamehameha, he says, "Forget the Earth! I can destroy the entire solar system with my energy now!"

As in the thing that's been cited as the textbook definition of hyperbole in vs debating for years for years across every debating board ever, well actually just him talking out his ass and is backed up by absolutely no feats whatsoever?

Moving on.....

Originally posted by banana3
Anime SPC is a solar system buster.

@cdtm SSJ2 Gohan pulverized the Cell JRs which have large planet+ durability in one punch

Yeah, but that only proves they have pretty low physical resistance.

Etrigan knocks Superman to the moon, Superman knocks Orion around the world, Joe Fixit breaks apart an asteroid twice the size of the Earth.. DBZ doesn't have feats like that.

Much less straight lifting feats. They're basically at herald class energy projection and resistance, with an ill defined amount of physical strength.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
As in the thing that's been cited as the textbook definition of hyperbole in vs debating for years for years across every debating board ever, well actually just him talking out his ass and is backed up by absolutely no feats whatsoever?

Moving on.....

@ctdm there's no difference between physical resistance and energy blast resistance (unless the canon says otherwise) energy is energy.

@everyone so does anyone know if Syn Shenron being called a galaxy buster in the GT Perfect Files is contradicted by the show?

Originally posted by StealthRanger
As in the thing that's been cited as the textbook definition of hyperbole in vs debating for years for years across every debating board ever, well actually just him talking out his ass and is backed up by absolutely no feats whatsoever?

Moving on.....

Mind you, if he's not a solar system buster? Still doesn't hurt the argument. Whatever level Perfect Cell is, it's around equal to SSJ2 level. Someone not at all far from that level hurt Beerus. If that's sub-solar system buster, that's fine too.

Low showing, Beerus wasn't at full power, SSJ2 Vegeta is technically SSJ3 tier, and SSJ4 Gogeta never did anything to make people believe he's above solar system level besides the the GT Perfect Files statement.

Originally posted by banana3
Low showing, Beerus wasn't at full power, SSJ2 Vegeta is technically SSJ3 tier,

Majin Vegeta was still equal with SSJ2 Goku, SSJ3 Goku was 4 times that.

And SSJ3 Goku is massively outmatched by an unfused SSJ4 level foe. Like, not even close to a fight.

There's 'low showing' but if Beerus was at 5% of full, then that means SSJ4 Gogeta crushes him.

And that's 5%- or whatever- that's still Godly Ki, so it still shows the vulnerability to non-godly ki attacks.

and SSJ4 Gogeta never did anything to make people believe

*Watches as Banana3 ignores all the actual fights and things like 'higher forms being demonstrated stronger than lower forms that have shown to be effective' *

Originally posted by StealthRanger
As in the thing that's been cited as the textbook definition of hyperbole in vs debating for years for years across every debating board ever, well actually just him talking out his ass and is backed up by absolutely no feats whatsoever?

Moving on.....

-Translation-
Red Text: "Everything's super!! Declare this invincible Saiya-Power!!"

Black Text: "Super Saiyan Grade Five (Strongest Form). An aura with sparks like flashes of lightning and an upright, combative hairstyle are the distinguishing features of this, the strongest Saiyan warrior! One's personality also becomes aggressive; even the ordinarily gentle Gohan started to enjoy battle! Its power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!"

Originally posted by banana3
Anime Kid Buu's "galaxy" erasing feat that is large star-solar system and an anime guidebook

@ctdm there's no difference between physical resistance and energy blast resistance (unless the canon says otherwise) energy is energy.

@everyone so does anyone know if Syn Shenron being called a galaxy buster in the GT Perfect Files is contradicted by the show?

Buu's way beyond Cell, so why you bring him up is beyond me. Also that galaxy thing happened over an unknown timeframe, so at best you could argue is Buu can destroy stars

Anime guidebooks are not valid evidence, especially when they're not supported by feats in any continuity (kid of the reason why the Nardo databooks have been laughed out of vs debates since 2006)

Originally posted by Q99
Mind you, if he's not a solar system buster? Still doesn't hurt the argument. Whatever level Perfect Cell is, it's around equal to SSJ2 level. Someone not at all far from that level hurt Beerus. If that's sub-solar system buster, that's fine too.

So taking a questionably PIS moment and making Cell a solar system buster? Okay that's new

But seriously, Berrus fodderised and punked SSJ3 Goku and required a SSJG to match, which even then, is still weaker, an SSJ2 harming him seems kind of out of place no?

Originally posted by Galan007
For what it's worth, Cell's boast that he possessed enough chi to "blow away the entire solar system" was confirmed(so to speak) in the 'Trunks TV Special' guidebook:

-Translation-
Red Text: "Everything's super!! Declare this invincible Saiya-Power!!"

Black Text: "Super Saiyan Grade Five (Strongest Form). An aura with sparks like flashes of lightning and an upright, combative hairstyle are the distinguishing features of this, the strongest Saiyan warrior! One's personality also becomes aggressive; even the ordinarily gentle Gohan started to enjoy battle! Its power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!"

Yeah like I said, databooks arent valid evidence, especially when they're contradicted by on panel evidence and have no backing by feats in any continuity

Galaxy busting Buu now?

Nothing really "contradicts" Cell's statement, though. He said that he possessed enough power to destroy the solar system, and the guidebook corroborates his statement. Obviously we never got to see Cell physically destroy the solar system, because Gohan killed him before he could do so. This does not "contradict" his statement in any way/shape/form, however.

Now, had Cell tried, and failed, to destroy...say...the sun, a legit "contradiction" would exist. But as it stands: we have an in-universe statement, backed by a canon guidebook, stating that Cell was a solar system-buster. Typically, that is enough to canonize the statement(s) in question, so long as no blatant contradictions exist(and none do.)

That being said, whether or not Cell could destroy the solar system means very little to me--I could care less one way or the other. I'm just saying that his 'baseless claim' is also backed by an outside/canon source, which we must take into consideration. Furthermore, Cell might have only been able to destroy the solar system through some sort of chain reaction for all we know(ie. he destroys the sun's core, and the resulting detonation creates a domino effect which "blows away" the rest of the solar system--not unlike Freeza did to Namek, but on a much larger scale.) Who knows..?