for those who have seen matrix 2

Hi ppl. Saw M2 a couple of weeks ago with a friend. We were blown away. Both in terms of the plot and the raw action. It was difficult making the transition back to "real life" - exiting the theatre... finding the car... remembering how to drive... It wasn't just a movie. It was a mind-bending, life-altering experience!

Anyhow, I've been reading this forum on and off since then. Finally got to the last post and figured I'd add my .02 currency units worth.

I think that in M3, everyone dies in the first three minutes, then the credits roll. 😄 Would that be cruel or what??

Ok seriously... Another poster commented that "the programs don't lie" or something like that. I recalled the Oracle initially telling Neo (in M1) "Sorry Kiddo", he wasn't the One. Later there was something said about the Oracle telling him what he needed to hear. While this might not be a case of outright "lying" (in a malicious sense, anyhow) it seems to prove the machines capable of being other than truthful. (Geez I sound like a politician!)

In later discussions with my friend and fellow M2 survivor, the "matrix in a matrix" theory popped up. At the time, it made as much sense as anything else. (My brain was still tapioca at that point.) They left sooooo much dangling at the end of M2. I mean, they ended the film halfway through a major battle, among other things! Found that a little frustrating, to say the least. Definitely be queued up for M3 though. But moving right along, I'm having my doubts now about matrix within a matrix. Seems like that would be a cheap plot trick. Haven't completely discounted it though, as one of the directors said something in an interview about the plot being "like peeling back the layers of an onion." Yeah, not exactly "proof", but it makes me wonder.

The other prevailing theory seems to be that the whole Neo<-->Smith connection has resulted in strange new abilities. That seems a bit of a stretch to me. Whatever fantastic abilities Neo has, isn't it incongruous to think he can just start doing wacky stuff in the real world like zapping Sentinels?

But then the whole plot was such a brain bender (blender?) to me that it's been difficult to get a handle on just what the "rules" of their environment are and speculate plot solutions that are consistent with those rules.

Thoughts?

Later, gotta go fer now...

-cw-

I just watched most of the first one again and I realised something.You know how there's so much speculation on who's going to die in Revolutions?Well in the first the oracle tells neo that Morpheus is going to die to save his life but he doesn't "die" in the first or second so maybe that comes in the third?!

actually in that prophecy I think Neo had the choice (funny how that always gets in there) between his life and morpheus'. and eventually he did die for morpheus.

Understanding the meaning about the oracle.

Originally posted by cwilkins
Another poster commented that "the programs don't lie" or something like that. I recalled the Oracle initially telling Neo (in M1) "Sorry Kiddo", he wasn't the One. Later there was something said about the Oracle telling him what he needed to hear. While this might not be a case of outright "lying" (in a malicious sense, anyhow) it seems to prove the machines capable of being other than truthful. (Geez I sound like a politician!)
-cw-

The Oracle didn't lie in the matrix 1. She said: "You got the gift, but you are waiting for something. Then she said, in your next life maybe, that's how these things goes". And that is exactly what happen.... NEO (Anagram for ONE) did die, at the and of the movie, and love made him live again as the ONE.

So I stil believe that the oracle did not lied to NEO!!!

Originally posted by Plataveloz
Understanding the meaning about the oracle.

The Oracle didn't lie in the matrix 1. She said: "You got the gift, but you are waiting for something. Then she said, in your next life maybe, that's how these things goes". And that is exactly what happen.... NEO (Anagram for ONE) did die, at the and of the movie, and love made him live again as the ONE.

So I stil believe that the oracle did not lied to NEO!!!

Yeah, you've got a good point. I also watched M1 again since posting and noted that part. And actually, she didn't tell him he wasn't the One. She just said "Sorry kid." Then Neo responded with something like "I'm not the One?" which was then followed by the dialog you quoted.

So... Somewhat misleading perhaps, but ok, not a lie.

But hey, what about the French guy, when he disappeared into the ladies room for some hanky panky? There was certainly some deception there.

And I'm not sure this amounts to much, but how about when Cypher was telling Smith his conditions for selling out? "I want to be rich." "I don't want to remember anything." etc... I got the feeling that Smith had no intention of keeping his side of the bargain. Smith didn't even raise an eyebrow to all those demands. No telling whether that was because Smith planned to simply use and dispose of Cypher (something which there seems to be plenty of precedent for), or because in a virtual world such demands are trivial to meet. Of course, we didn't get a chance to find out... ZAP!!

-cw-

Like Morpheus said she told him only what he needed to hear.

Originally posted by chico23
actually in that prophecy I think Neo had the choice (funny how that always gets in there) between his life and morpheus'. and eventually he did die for morpheus.

Yeah, Neo seems to be developing a pattern. When presented with two choices and he doesn't like either one, he comes up with a third option that no one else has tried before (or would dare try). A clear cut case of "Captain Kirk Syndrome?" 🙂

-cw-

Originally posted by svicic
I just watched most of the first one again and I realised something.You know how there's so much speculation on who's going to die in Revolutions?Well in the first the oracle tells neo that Morpheus is going to die to save his life but he doesn't "die" in the first or second so maybe that comes in the third?!

As chico23 indicated, the Oracle didn't tell Neo that Morpheus was going to die. She told him that he would have to make a choice between his own life and Morpheus' life. Morpheus was captured. Neo was prepared to sacrifice his own life to make the rescue because at the time, he was thinking he wasn't the One and Morpheus was making a needless sacrifice for him, though ironically, who else but the One would have attempted a rescue against such ridiculous odds? Even the first time I saw it, that's when it became blatantly clear to me that this guy was the One - whether he knew it or not.

Well that's what I got out of it anyway...

FWIW, I thought the funniest scene in M1 was when the guard asked him if he had any metal objects on him... and he opened his coat.

Three posts here in one night. 😮 I'll go away quietly now...

-cw-

Ok Sorry-I made a mistake-I apologise for any needless hassle......

Originally posted by cwilkins
I thought the funniest scene in M1 was when the guard asked him if he had any metal objects on him... and he opened his coat.

😂

"Holy S@$t!"

Originally posted by BEST TRINITY
HEY talking about CYPHER how he got into the matrix without someone who unplugged him when he came back to NAB

I speculate he did it with a kind of automatic Jack-in/Jack-out procedure.... The only difference is maybe that it would be time and place dependant, and with an operator you can jack-in and jack-out wherever and whenever you like.....

But then again it is just a theory... I would like to hear it from The Wachowski themselves.....

I would just like to add also that the Merovingian, Oracle etc are programs, not machines 🙂 So they could easily be programmed to lie but none have done so far.

Ok, here are some of my theories.

Theory#1 - It is very possible that there is infact, a "matrix within a matrix"

Explanation - If the machines have destroyed Zion 5X b4, then where is the hole leading fr/Zion directly 2 the surface?? It is possible that everything has happened b4. That the system is just repeating itself over and over....etc.(I myself do not support the idea of a "matrix within a matrix".)

Theory#2 - On the part where Persephone kisses Neo. Persephone says 2 Trinity "I envy u, but such a thing is not meant 2 last" She is hinting that Neo is meant 2 go to the door on the right, and not go 2 save Trinity. It's also like saying "All the other "The One"'s went through the door on the right, y wont u?"(Persephone sorta knows how its supposed 2 go. She must b a program.)

Theory#3 - Im am soooo damn tired, ive been up all night on these forums, and all i need is a good day's rest.

Explanation - As I look in the mirror I say "damn" because my eyes r sooooooo red.

O and 1 more,

Theory - The mother of The Matrix is the Oracle

Explanation - While The Architect was talking(and i feel as if I'm the only one that recognizes this) The part where he says who the mother is. There is one key word noone's seem 2 mention. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>PSYCHE<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 💃 💃 💃

I think the answer lies in the simetry of what happened to Neo and what happened to Smith in that moment in the end of the movie.
I mean, Smith could not alter the reality so he could survive to the attack. That's impossible! And the same applies to Neo. He couldn't destroy those Medusas.
So there's a simetry here and I bet this is the key for the answer...
Maybe one the theories discussed here could just fit in...
Believe me, the movie is very subtil and ironic in the logic of how all the things work together and this really fits in the model.

Also just for curiosity, the Medusas were destroyed exactly the same way they were destroyed in the first movie using that special device...
Not sure if there's a link here...

I had noticed that also CrazyShady, I posted this in a topic earlier actually 🙂 "Psyche" combined with "Fortune Teller" and combined with "I protect that which matters most". A few other things as well which I mentioned in another post - It is logical to assume it is her and all evidence points that way.

My bad

who likes the part where neo fights all the agents after talking with the oracle

uhhhhhhhh.... me

neo is good...
i have nothing more to add.