for those who have seen matrix 2

Yeah can't wait to see what happens.

"Hmmm you pride yourselves in understanding the movie but you all dont understand the simple message of SPOILER TAGS."

Actually this topic is Labled, "FOR THOSE WHO HAVE SEEN MATRIX 2".

That implies that if you have not seen it then read at your own risk.

P.S, I do not pride myself on understanding the movie, it is just a movie. But I do love that the movie makes you think and want to understand it.

Well I've seen it.Seeing it again Friday.

Thanks for posting the final conversation.

Know that I have heard it again I understand it way better. The previous "The One's" all choose the right door and choose to rebuild zion, as there programs were designed to lead them to do. But Neo has now chossen the left door and has now changed the pattern. The architect said that Trinity would not live, but Neo did save her. I cannot wait to see the next one.............

why did this movie (trilogy..or whatever) get the reputation of being 'harder' to understand? It just has a better story line than most new movies, and a more entangled plot. it's really not that tough to get.
I doubt my mom understands it, though..but that doesn't mean she can't, because i KNOW she thinks it's not worth two hours of her life to work on understanding. Some people just have different conceptions about films..

now the movies...it's great...but the balance of the forces is totally screwed from the first. Agents look like pussies by now..and there are too many non-agent characters that manage to get neo into a headacke.
Also, these new elements:...find the keymaster...destroy the power plant....these seem a little 'dungeons and dragons' if you know what i'm sayin

wonder if a second time would be better.

chico, thanks for the script. that's awesome!

this movie is a bit harder to understand because it's not as cut and dry as the first one. the first movie was the general overview of what has happend and what will happen. This is going into the details. The details are always the hardest to decipher and comprehend

like that thing with the girl's cake..in the restaurant...*grins*...heheh. You know..i really thought he was gonna kill her with it, at first...

Spoiler:
Architect: Please, as I was saying she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at an unconscious level. While this answered function it was obviously fundamentally flawed thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly. That if left unchecked might threaten the system itself, ergo those that refuse the program while the minority if unchecked would cause an escalating probability of disaster.

The first part talks about the people not accepting the program like Morpheus and Trinity. But what is the second part talking about?

Architect: Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it. And we have become exceedingly efficient at it. The function of the One is now to return to the source allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry reinserting the prime program after which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix. Which, coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.

What do these these sentences mean. It's too complicated wording for me to understand. What was the source? I thought it was the room the architect and Neo were in. Why would everyone connected to the Matrix be killed?

Architect: There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However the relevant issue is whether you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world. It is interesting reading your reactions. Your 5 predecessors were by design based on a similar predication a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species facilitating the function of the One. While the others experienced this in a very general way your experience is far more specific, Vis a vie love.

He says by design. Does this mean that Neo is a program. The architect designed him? Is Neo the anomally or is everyone that is unplugged an anomally? Just making sure, but the agents are programs right, and does the architect control them? Are the twins programs, because I don't see how they can become ghost-like?

I think I just messed up my whole reply because I experimented with it. I'm not used to using this. I thought I was bolding sentences and and making it spoiler-proof, but I guess I messed it up.

hey, can we get a mod in here to fix the posts so we don't have to scroll vertically for hours?

You mean scrolling horizontally for hours???

Hey there, want to apologize 4 any potential etiquette mistakes, havn't posted 2 this brd b4.
So many cool postings...

Spoiler:
I am avidly reading the NEO: program vs. human debate. on the program side now....Anyone want to discuss further implication of the Merovingian and his wife?? My friends and I have a debate about what happened to Naiobi at the end of the movie. anyone clear of her fate? dead, alive, unknown?

haha! yep. that's what i meant. horizonatally, not vertically. my bad. stupid me!

Hi,

after following this thread with many good explanations I have two things that do not make sense to me, maybe one of you can help me there...

One: why do the machines not know the exact location of Zion if the architect is saying, this will be the sixth time they will have destroyed it?

Two: Although in the middle of their talk, the architect says that Zion will be destroyed for the sixth time, he also states later, that "the door to your right leads to the source and the salvation of Zion".

Three: At the end of their talk, the architect points out to Neo that they already know Neo's choice and indicates it will be the one destroying everyone bound to the matrix. Since this would be a severe problem for the machines, why is he not at all worried and even appears to be very calm, as if he expected that all along?

Regards, J. 😑

JellyLorum:
In my opinion, the answers to your questions3 r as follws:

Spoiler:

1. Why do you think the Machines don't know where Zion is from the beginning? Neo wouldn't have gone on the journey to the source, handing himself to the Architect to potentially reset the programme, as the anomaly's purpose seems to be (albeit merely one purpose) unless Zion was threatened severely. I think the whole concept of Zion is to foster a environment where the One - the anomaly that worries the Architect- is found is constantly searched for, and then sent on a mission to save Zion, the people of Zion being mere pawns.
2. I think you have to take the "source and salvation" comment in context with the previous statement "The function of the One ..reinserting the prime program after which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, ...rebuild Zion. Failure to comply ...will result in a cataclysmic system crash " (THX for giving us the script!). If Neo goes 2 Source, he resets the program, and supposedly gets 2 save some humans from Zion to begin again...if he doesn't reset, the Matrix and machines will start 2b destroyed...w/o the machines keeping the humans alive, the pods will die, and the machines, inexorably linked will cease to function.
3. I agree that there is lots of ambiguity here. Perhaps that is why so much effort was put out to stop Neo, b/c his version would be the one that made the cataclysmic choice. But the Architects words to try to persuade Neo from making the other choice, stating Trinity will die anyway, etc.

Question 4u, and anyone else, any1 catch the forshadowing of the Architect scene from the scene w/ the Councellor? His speech re: the interwining of man and machine?

I was going through the MAtrix 1, and Noticed that they referenced the Architect. He's actually watching Neo, when Neo is being held/arrested by the Agents in that white room.

Pretty Cool.

I want to see more of niobie fighting smiths or the up graded agents

http://blogs.salon.com/0001797/2003/05/19.html#a532

I anyone is interested I thought this post was very interesting and made some sense of the questions that Reloaded brought up. Its is a spoiler so beware. 🙂

Also, Flip I saw that too. Funny how watching Reloaded made me want to go home and watch Matrix again.

Sent,

Spoiler:

your first question, people knew that there wasn't a choice on the unconcious level, but on the conscious lever they believed that they did have one. this is what is contraditory. Now like he said, 99% of people accepted that programming, but as for the 1% who didn't, if they were left unchecked, they would wreak havoc on the system. this is where Zion comes in. Zion is pretty much the place they dump this 1% of people so that the entire matrix won't collapse and die.

2nd question: We know that despite his best efforts, he could not destroy the anomaly (the one) but he could control him. the entire matrix is about control. the quote at the end of the first movie when neo is talking into the payphone. he says he will show these people a world without borders and boundries where anything is possible. The agents are another level of this control. Anyways, the architect knows that eventually, there will be another major anamolaic person, carrying a "code" that will make him "the one." Since he can predict that, he can in ways control what will happen to him. His control over neo has brought neo to him. the oracle is yet another system of control because of that. As for the extinction of the human race, i believe that it is a dupe. Obviously the architect wouldn't want to have all the humans die, the machines would as well. He is trying to persuade Neo to take a few people out of the matrix and start a new Zion like the previous "neos" had. afterall, would you want to be held responsible for the extinction of the entire human race? (assuming you believed him)

as for the 3rd: since the matrix is a system of control, if you read the the architects reply to neo's first question, does it not seem like he is talking about neo as if he is a program? A program which he still controls. that control is what brought neo to him.

As for Niobe, she's still alive. only one of the hovercrafts were destroyed when at the end when they needed to take out 27 blocks of electricity to get neo through the door. i'm sure she'll play a much bigger role in revolutions.

as for Merovingian and his wife, persephone, i believe that persephone is the mother of the matrix. think about it, we've only been introduced to 2 female characters that reside within the matrix. persephone, and the oracle. the architect scoffs when neo mentions the oracle, indicating that it isn't her. also, another clue is when Merovingian finds out that Persephone betrays him. all he says is: "Women, you'll be the death of me." and she walks away without a care.

Another thing i noticed. Persephone is also Hope. Hope is always portrayed by a female. Ok. the entire movie is about Neo fighting to make a choice for himself. When they arrive in Zion, Trinity says: "They need you." Neo says: "I need you." This is VERY important in the end. This is what leads Neo to make his decision when he is at the source. He NEEDS Trinity. I think that he will need Trinity even more in Revoltions. Persephone, now, asks for a kiss from Neo. Trinity gets quite jealous and angry. What did the Architect say about hope?

"Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion simultaneously the source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness."

What is Persephone? She, at that moment, was their greatest strength by providing The Keymaker to the trio, while simultaneously being the greatest weakness by in a sense splitting Neo and Trinity up by asking for that kiss.

Jelly,

Spoiler:

I'm guessing that they do, but as Counselor Hammon ( I'm pretty sure that's the old councelor) the machines are dependant on man, and man on machine. Zion is the place where they dump the 1% who don't accept the programming. The purpose they serve is to root out the anomaly, the one, who eventually goes to the Architect. All of the previous anomalies have chosen to start a new Zion with 23 people. Or perhaps they choose a different location for Zion everytime. Either way, both are dependant upon one another.