Executive Order on Immigration

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Force them to pay and earn there citizenship like the rest of their compadres did or deport them since its against the law.

http://www.itep.org/immigration/

In 2010, illegals paid an estimated $10.6 billion in state and local taxes, more than 2 billion of that in California alone.

"Allowing undocumented immigrants to work in the United States legally would increase their state and local tax contributions by an estimated $2 billion a year. Their effective state and local tax rate would also increase to 7 percent on average, which would put their tax contributions more in line with documented taxpayers with similar incomes."

I don't think many of the illegals would disagree with your position, apart from the deportation part. It would be easier to tax and monitor illegal immigrants if it were easier for them to come into the light--they won't declare themselves because of the fear of arrest or deportation.

I don't know how much you know about the citizenship process in America, but I know from friends who've tried getting citizenship--and I'm talking British people, not Nicuraguans who can't speak English--and have found the process so long, grueling, and complicated that it almost isn't worth the trouble. This becomes much more difficult when you factor in language difficulties.

And this still doesn't answer the question I posed above. How do you envision more than eleven million people being rounded up and relocated? To where? Who will find them? Who will remove them?

There's only one historical example of that many people being rounded up and relocated, and that's the Holocaust. I'm not saying that deporting the illegals would be morally similar to that (though there would probably be lots of force involved and I can't envision a scenario where at least temporary interment camps wouldn't need to be constructed), but the resources and will required to get it done would be comparable.

Bottom line: I don't think mass deportation has ever been an option except in the wet dreams of certain Conservatives who haven't considered the logistics.

Its beyond taxes. Just because you come into the country illegally, and gain work illegally, does that make you a rightful national and citizen?

The proper immigration process is there for a reason, yes?

Illegal immigration is like drugs you could say, you can't get rid of drugs, but making them legal is something we would not do.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Its beyond taxes. Just because you come into the country illegally, and gain work illegally, does that make you a rightful national and citizen?

The proper immigration process is there for a reason, yes?

Illegal immigration is like drugs you could say, you can't get rid of drugs, but making them legal is something we would not do.

I would actually support the legalization of certain drugs, in cases where said drugs don't present a serious danger to society. And just as our prisons don't have room for all the minor drug offenders, there's no feasible way of deporting all the illegals.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Did you even read my post past the second line?

I'm on my phone, will respond to the rest soon.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
A lot of illegals are currently paying taxes.

http://www.itep.org/immigration/

In 2010, illegals paid an estimated $10.6 billion in state and local taxes, more than 2 billion of that in California alone.

"Allowing undocumented immigrants to work in the United States legally would increase their state and local tax contributions by an estimated $2 billion a year. Their effective state and local tax rate would also increase to 7 percent on average, which would put their tax contributions more in line with documented taxpayers with similar incomes."

I don't think many of the illegals would disagree with your position, apart from the deportation part. It would be easier to tax and monitor illegal immigrants if it were easier for them to come into the light--they won't declare themselves because of the fear of arrest or deportation.

I don't know how much you know about the citizenship process in America, but I know from friends who've tried getting citizenship--and I'm talking British people, not Nicuraguans who can't speak English--and have found the process so long, grueling, and complicated that it almost isn't worth the trouble. This becomes much more difficult when you factor in language difficulties.

And this still doesn't answer the question I posed above. How do you envision more than eleven million people being rounded up and relocated? To where? Who will find them? Who will remove them?

There's only one historical example of that many people being rounded up and relocated, and that's the Holocaust. I'm not saying that deporting the illegals would be morally similar to that (though there would probably be lots of force involved and I can't envision a scenario where at least temporary interment camps wouldn't need to be constructed), but the resources and will required to get it done would be comparable.

Bottom line: I don't think mass deportation has ever been an option except in the wet dreams of certain Conservatives who haven't considered the logistics.

If you take a look at Australia, they have zero problems with illegal immigration.

I know quiet a bit about the Immigration hurdles because my gf is Russian and she went through it. So I know it is possible. As for your British friends, I don't have an answer to that. But I can say that they will not be included in this amnesty which is very discriminating if you think about it because of their skin color.

All in all I agree with most of what you said. You are smart.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
If you take a look at Australia, they have zero problems with illegal immigration.

All in all I agree with most of what you said. You are smart.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Im 3rd generation in American in my family.

Also this is not white vs anyone.

Its the constitution of which we were founded on.

Also the same people that get to skip to the front of the line, while the ones who chose to do it the right way took years and a financial commitment.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
They actually have a growing problem with asylum seekers. I've even seen some analysts who've envisioned a war between Australia and Indonesia over the practice of Australians pushing migrants toward Indonesia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum_in_Australia
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timtreadgold/2014/01/31/australia-v-indonesia-approaches-a-flashpoint/

That they don't have the same problem as America has more to do with geography than anything else. Australia doesn't have a land border with anyone. If they shared a land border with Indonesia you'd see a lot more illegals in Australia.

Having money helps, so does having experience with forms and bureaucracy from what I understand. In the case of my friends, they kept filling out the same forms over and over again and getting the same responses, and each form seemed to lead to another form and the people who were supposed to help them really didn't give a damn about their problems. A lot of people who want to get into America for economic reasons either don't know how to get in legally or can't afford to wait on the bureaucracy--they need the money now.

I think if we get past the "they broke the law by coming illegally" mentality, we see that there's not much harm in the illegals remaining in America. The ones who commit crimes can be weeded out and deported or imprisoned, the rest should be rewarded for good behavior with fast-track paths to citizenship. The current system with the citizenship test is outdated. I'll bet you most American citizens wouldn't even pass it if they took it.

You can be my wingman any time. 😎

Its times like these where we have no right or wrong answer it seems.

Originally posted by red g jacks
good for you... you don't think your ancestors were hazed in the same way? "the legal way" is so ****ed up that we would mess up our own economy if we did strictly clamp down and apply the current laws to the word. we need to figure out a way to make immigrating to this country to work and add to our economy way more simple than what it is right now. especially since you're dealing with different people with different cultures, capabilities, and expectations.

No clue man if my grandfather was.

I could ask around the family though.

I agree, we need to make it work. But is the president taking action on his own right the way when congress has not been seated yet since the vote?

yes, because the congress aint about getting shit done one way or the other. the dems try to rep obama while the reps try to sandbag him. so **** congress anyway.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Im 3rd generation in American in my family.

Also this is not white vs anyone.

Its the constitution of which we were founded on.

Also the same people that get to skip to the front of the line, while the ones who chose to do it the right way took years and a financial commitment.

The Constitution was written by the children of illegal immigrants, just saying

Obama oh he mad.

He wants to shut down the government if republicans don't fund his bill.

Cry more.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Obama oh he mad.

He wants to shut down the government if republicans don't fund his bill.

Cry more.

Edit: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2014/12/01/morning-plum-republicans-have-a-simple-response-to-obamas-immigration-tyranny/

This is an interesting article. It's basically saying "if Republicans don't like the executive order, they can, you know, do their job and actually pass legislation to present an alternative that might be acceptable to both parties."

Why is it the republicans job to do immigration reform when democrats had control of the government for 4 years?

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Why is it the republicans job to do immigration reform when democrats had control of the government for 4 years?

What Omega just said.

If they don't like the current plan and wish to block it, it's their job to also propose an alternate plan that both parties can agree on, instead of doing what they've done since Obama took office, deny, block and stagnate any progress like a bunch of diaper-babies.

I'm talking about before this, the last 4 years. Dem's did absolutely nothing and Obama said over 52 jobs it was not his job. So. He passes the blame to congress in which he controls, now its republicans fault. Go figure.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I'm talking about before this, the last 4 years. Dem's did absolutely nothing and Obama said over 52 jobs it was not his job. So. He passes the blame to congress in which he controls, now its republicans fault. Go figure.

Seriously, where do you get your info from?

Obama back in 2009 on immigration reform: “Now, am I going to be able to snap my fingers and get this done? No,” the president said. “But ultimately, I think the American people want fairness. And we can create a system in which you have strong border security and an orderly process for people to come in. But we’re also giving an opportunity for those who are already in the United States to be able to achieve a pathway to citizenship so they don’t have to live in the shadows.”-Source

The conservative wing of the Republican Party has made dialogue and compromise on most issues, but especially on immigration reform and healthcare, impossible.

It's a shame that local interests (the interests/values/beliefs of a congressman's constituency) have effectively trumped national interest and clogged up the government. Republicans have to take a hard line because if they don't, they might lose primaries to more zealously conservative candidates.

Originally posted by Robtard
The Constitution was written by the children of illegal immigrants, just saying

Wouldn't they be conqueror's? 😛

Personally, I hate talking border control, because both sides talk right past each other.

Right side: "Security, job shortage, laws being flouted, citizenship becoming meaningless."

Left side: "People fleeing inhumane conditions, families being split up, the constitution applying to everyone in our borders, jobs no one else wants."

Meanwhile, just about everyone knows a tons of people on the left and right could care less about all that stuff, and just want cheap labor and/or bolster up a voting block. Basically, their concern is how to exploit immigrants.

On the subject of the Founding Fathers, they were colonists, not illegal immigrants, legally speaking.