dragonball z lightspeed

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Such as?

Well, we already know that Whis is definitively MFTL, and Akira made his own statements on the difference in scale of Whis, Beerus, and Goku. Could Whis' exact speed be quantified, you think? If so, I'd like you (or someone) to do that, then scale it down to Goku to see where he ends up (if you wouldn't mind).

Originally posted by BloodRain
Thats an awful comparison because it missed the important part; Where is the limit? For Goku, going to the opposite side is the furthest distance possible he could possibly reach. You do not call the max you can go 'not far'. Hell, in the new scans the have up Goku is saying they're nearby.

No, Krillen.

Fact 1: Krillen at max speed takes an hour or two to go from A to C.

Fact 2: Goku's recovery took 40-50 minuites.

Your assumption: That in under an hour Krillen went from A to Z.

That's because it didn't. When forming that post the first time I went through the entire fight from beginning to Goku's arrival. They start off two islands away from the ship. During the fight they jump onto two other islands that I'll assume was in the opposite direction from the ship, though its still only four islands away. The first image I posted shows how close they initially were.

And just because you missed them:
+The trio snuck away using minimum ki to not get detected. You think a minimum ki Dende could cover the entire planet in a few minutes when a max ki Krillen takes an hour to cover a fraction of the planet?

+The area which Goku has the final battle with Frieza is about six islands from the summon point, so eight islands from the ship at most. Which is important because King Kai tells us what Goku is doing, which is going to the ship thats closer to himself.. stating that his own ship is too far away for the SSJ to get to in time, urging Goku to hurry. This tells us two things. First that Frieza's ship cannot be on the opposite side of the planet if Goku's ship is further away, second being that even as a SS1 Goku cannot lightspeed across the planet or he would have instantly been his ship and left the planet at that point.

+"[b]The feat doesn't happen. As we can see Frieza is standing over Vegeta in one scene, and in the next with him he's only over Vegeta with his arm cocked back as Goku appears." [/B]

Again, you're arguing that he would call a distance "far away", despite him being able to cross it casually in his sleep, and having done so to a distance ten times that size in a much weaker form. If the paper boy threw a newspaper to the end of my driveway, just because it's the furthest he could have thrown to me, doesn't mean I'd call that "far away". I'd walk for a couple feet, and pick it up no problem. It's the same thing for Goku. He simply didn't think it was that far, and it's not like it was a well-analyzed, descriptive, and completely accurate statement. Just something he said to himself on the fly, for christ sake. It proves nothing.

You can clearly see from this scan, that Frieza's ship is not even in view, while the curvature of Namek IS. My point here, is that these scans are not reliable. Also, Gohan said that it would take Krillin 2 hours to reach Guru's house, and come back. That means it's only a one hour trip to reach Guru's, which was supposed to be almost on the other side of the planet as well, as Piccolo WAS summoned to the other side, and after just a short bit of traveling, came across Nail's battlefield. Also, you're forgetting that it would take him a few hours, conservatively while hiding his power level. While fighting Frieza, and moving during battle, he was going all out(obviously).

I didn't see any scan like that. In fact, when Piccolo got there, the ship wasn't even shown in a single scan, other than while showing Goku.

And just because you don't have the mental capacity to think for yourself:

1. Do you think that it's impossible that Krillin/Gohan carried Dende, as they did when fleeing Dodoria? Also, Gohan used the "few hours" estimate based off of the speed he used when masking his ki. While fighting Frieza, he was going all out. The battle moved through several islands.

2. The battle point between Goku and Frieza is an undefined length from the ship, OTHER than across the planet. Also, WHAT DON'T YOU GET ABOUT THE FACT THAT GOKU AND FRIEZA MOVED ALL OVER THE PLANET WHILE FIGHTING? If the ship is point A, the starting point is B, and Goku's ship is C, they could very well have moved around with the ending point being in between A and B, which is the ONLY thing we can assume, as it's the only statement we were given. 👆

3. What are you trying to say? That since Frieza was not in striking position when Goku took off, that it would have been impossible for him to have attacked? Well, I was lowballing for just such an occasion. Roshi and Krillin traded dozens of blows, AND moved around the ring in the fifth of a second. Therefor, the feat very well DID happen. 👆

Originally posted by Sacred 117
Well, we already know that Whis is definitively MFTL, and Akira made his own statements on the difference in scale of Whis, Beerus, and Goku. Could Whis' exact speed be quantified, you think? If so, I'd like you (or someone) to do that, then scale it down to Goku to see where he ends up (if you wouldn't mind).

Hm... Well, to be honest, other than using the scale Toriyama gave us, and scaling it from Goku's speed, I don't think you could.

The reason is because they never told us how far their planet was from King Kai's planet in the first place. They only told us that it took them 26 minutes to reach. However, they were crossing presumably hundreds and thousands of galaxies in order to do so, meaning it WOULD be pretty ridiculously fast. While we have this info though, we still also don't even know how hard Whiss was trying. He accomplished the feat pretty casually, so I would wager that he wasn't even using a fraction of his power to do so. In fact, it seemed that if Bills truly wished, he could have done the same, also very easily.

However, I could scale the numbers of Goku's speed into SSJG, and then the scale Toriyama gave us, making Whiss effectively 90% faster/i.e. stronger, than Goku, which would be pretty easy to calc. I will tell you now though, the calc I recently presented is PRECISELY accurate, for Namek saga Goku's speed. There was nothing stated or shown that could disprove it, and it was supported by many things. Just in case you wanted to know. It may seem like it, because not many people are used to acknowledging DBZ's actual feats, but I'm NOT just wanking here.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta

You can clearly see from this scan, that Frieza's ship is not even in view, while the curvature of Namek IS.

Nice try though. 👆

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
This is the stupidest argument I've ever heard made on here. You're literally using the same junk that Yungz does, lol.

You're LITERALLY arguing about the perspective shown from the series. You might as well argue that Namek actually took a few hours to blow up, because of how long it took in the anime.

The way they're TALKING here, you wouldn't think they're moving almost a million times faster than light, would you?

Your entire argument is null and void, because Buu found Goku and Vegeta by their ki, and was there three pages later. This entire argument you're presenting is disproven by the fact that EVERY fictional character EVER that has gone FTL, can talk while doing so. This makes no sense, because sound is not even comparable to light in terms of speed, meaning that no one should be able to, but it's a cartoon for gods sake. Chalk it up as PIS if you want, but they do it, so there's no denying the feat.

Those aren't speech bubbles when Superman is flying. Those are thought bubbles. You can think faster than you can talk. Also there are a plethora of direct text, both through narration and dialog than say Superman and others can move at light speed. Here you only have your faulty reasonings that must disregard what we actually see and are told. Also this is about DB. If you want to complain about Superman's speed open a thread

But basically what I'm getting from you is that you want to just chalk it up to PIS? It happens far too often to be just that. And you keep bringing up the anime as if it matters here when the original work tells us otherwise

If Buu could even go 1/100th the speed of light he would have been on top of Goku and Vegeta before they were able to get a word out. He was obviously trying to reach them quickly so even if he didn't wanna go his top speed he still should have been able to circle the planet once in less than a second. He couldn't. And if he can't nobody weaker than him can either

There is only *one* somewhat quantifiable/legitimate travel speed feat in the whole of DBZ, and that was when Goku flew from King Kai's planet back to earth during the Saiyan Saga. However, even that 'feat' leaves quite a bit of guesstimating to be had, as Goku flew in a straight line, thereby bypassing *all* of Snake Way's twists and turns(which would have cut down tremendously on the overall distance he traveled)... But at least we know the distance of Snake Way-proper, and the time it took Goku to fly back to earth. This allows us to come up with a ballpark speed estimate that is at least mathematically conclusive(ish). Without BOTH of those variables, however, ALL you can do is take half-assed GUESSES at his/their speed. Nothing more.

That being said, some of you people act like your idiotic wank-math definitively 'proves'(lol) that Goku's speed far exceeds c, even though neither a stated distance, NOR a stated time, was explicitly mentioned during these feats. Frankly that is absolutely phucking ridiculous, and not even worth the time that others(inc. myself) have taken to thoroughly debunk it. If you want to take wanked-out GUESSES at their speed, go right ahead... But stop trying to sell your wanked-out GUESSES as more than they are. That is all.

Have fun with this short-bus of a thread... G out. salute

Way to make me feel like a jackass for slapping these fools with the pimp hand of logic! 🙁

Originally posted by juggerman
He didn't need to go his tops. He was clearly trying to reach them quickly so there is no reason he wouldn't go atleast close to LS especially since characters FATHOMS weaker and slower were "casual lightspeedsters"

And was able to spot them during the end of the panel. He had to search Earth, the entirety of it to find them and he did. Again, it's not like he was going his tops because if he did, they wouldn't have saw him.

if goku is ls how come it took him so long to traverse snake way to get back to his friends during the saiyan saga........ he was flying at top speed too

He wasn't just flying. During that time, I don't think their flying speed was FTL, thunk their reflexes were. It's obvious their combat speed is/burst speeds is>>>>>than their flight.

Question, does anyone have Akira email address?

Originally posted by carver9
And was able to spot them during the end of the panel. He had to search Earth, the entirety of it to find them and he did. Again, it's not like he was going his tops because if he did, they wouldn't have saw him.

He locked on to their location. He was not searching the entire planet. It was a B-Line.

Again it didn't have to be his top speed unless you think Buuhan needs to push himself to reach speeds Goku could reach before he could even go SSJ1. Doesn't hold water

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Again, you're arguing that he would call a distance "far away", despite him being able to cross it casually in his sleep, and having done so to a distance ten times that size in a much weaker form. If the paper boy threw a newspaper to the end of my driveway, just because it's the furthest he could have thrown to me, doesn't mean I'd call that "far away". I'd walk for a couple feet, and pick it up no problem. It's the same thing for Goku. He simply didn't think it was that far, and it's not like it was a well-analyzed, descriptive, and completely accurate statement. Just something he said to himself on the fly, for christ sake. It proves nothing.

No, the argument is that no one says the furthest point possible is not for or nearby. And because it was left unmentioned;

For added convenience when Piccolo is sent to Namek he says "Damn, they're not anywhere nearby" and "I sense a ridiculously huge ki far away from here". This was said when his PL was by his word surpassing Gohan and Krillin at that time, but stated by Nail to be still weaker than Frieza. Making his PL between 200,000 and 250,000.

Now lets go back to what you just said about Goku not thinking a planet distance away is far because he covered Snake way with a 5,000-8,000 PL.. See at this point you'll need to explain why your evidence doesn't count for Piccolo, when hes meant to be far above that Goku.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
You can clearly see from this scan, that Frieza's ship is not even in view, while the curvature of Namek IS. My point here, is that these scans are not reliable. Also, Gohan said that it would take Krillin 2 hours to reach Guru's house, and come back. That means it's only a one hour trip to reach Guru's, which was supposed to be almost on the other side of the planet as well, as Piccolo WAS summoned to the other side, and after just a short bit of traveling, came across Nail's battlefield. Also, you're forgetting that it would take him a few hours, conservatively while hiding his power level. While fighting Frieza, and moving during battle, he was going all out(obviously).

I didn't see any scan like that. In fact, when Piccolo got there, the ship wasn't even shown in a single scan, other than while showing Goku.

Lol that would still mean it would take Krillen flying at max speed around an hour to reach "almost the other side", when you're saying Dende can now fly at slow speeds and get to the opposite side while having the whole scuffle with Frieza within 40 minutes? And don't be quick to forget that base Frieza was flying at max speed from Nail to the ship and took the time he did, even with the dragon getting within eyes view. Or as said, Piccolo doing the exact same thing, first with lower then a higher PL than base Frieza.

Yeah, by the time Piccolo shows up they are three or four islands away from the ship. And since then no scan shows more than two islands in the background. Check it.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
And just because you don't have the mental capacity to think for yourself:

1. Do you think that it's impossible that Krillin/Gohan carried Dende, as they did when fleeing Dodoria? Also, Gohan used the "few hours" estimate based off of the speed he used when masking his ki. While fighting Frieza, he was going all out. The battle moved through several islands.

2. The battle point between Goku and Frieza is an undefined length from the ship, OTHER than across the planet. Also, WHAT DON'T YOU GET ABOUT THE FACT THAT GOKU AND FRIEZA MOVED ALL OVER THE PLANET WHILE FIGHTING? If the ship is point A, the starting point is B, and Goku's ship is C, they could very well have moved around with the ending point being in between A and B, which is the ONLY thing we can assume, as it's the only statement we were given. 👆

3. What are you trying to say? That since Frieza was not in striking position when Goku took off, that it would have been impossible for him to have attacked? Well, I was lowballing for just such an occasion. Roshi and Krillin traded dozens of blows, AND moved around the ring in the fifth of a second. Therefor, the feat very well DID happen. 👆

1. Dear lord what? Okay, so even though there was not a single flying around instance we see Krillin carrying Dende in this instance, its possible? No. Here's Dende's movement throughout the battle: At the summoning island up until stage 2 Frieza blows it up > then he's healing Krillin on the fourth island he swam up to, as Kirllin was thrown aside, at best he got some distance back, then is told by Piccolo to hide there > healing Piccolo and Vegeta on the same island, then dying there. Thats it. At no point did he either move more, was he carried besides Krillin saving him from the stage 2 blast, or was he even with the others a they were in combat. So yes, it is impossible that Dende was more than three or four islands away from the ship until his death. After that Frieza is kicking ass and still remaining on the same island until Goku shows up.

2. All caps means I'm serious?

They were a nearly the same distance from Frieza's ship as they were to Goku's? You know how far Goku's ship was? It's so close that a slow Gohan with barely any Ki remaining (As said by Piccolo early, back by Krillin saying he cannot fly that fast due to little ki) was carrying Piccolo and still made it to the ship in a short time.

Lets continue from where Dende left us;
Goku fights on that same island > Goku jumps out of the water and kicks Frieza though the next island and into the next, but Frieza hops back to Goku. At this point the trio have flown back and are three islands away > Frieza knocks him in an energy attack down, maybe to the next island > Goku flies back to Frieza who leads him to the next island > they stay here through the cross arm fight, through the kaio-ken, and until the spirit bomb (check it) > Frieza is kicked back by Piccolo around one island back, yes that scared island is the one they were fighting on. We also see that Gohan and Krillen are six islands away, which perfectly how far Frieza has been pushed back > they end up one island closer where Frieza was. Knocked another island back > blasted back another >...

..reverse time. At this point the dragon is brought back right around where the first island was destroyed, as shown from Dende's prespective. And not only do we see this second islands location in relation to where Frieza is, but Frieza also flies back to this area. It is on this island they have their final fight.

So yes, SS1 Goku is currently around four islands away from the ship.

And still, King Kai says Goku's ship is too far away.

3. Are you serious? You honesty don't have a counter to this, the foundation of your calc? 😐 You can't just say "hey, it could have happened" and call it a fact saying it did, 100%.

Jaysus I wish this part was at the top of the reply so maybe I could have avoided posting all the rest. Literally all you have is an image of Frieza crouching over Vegeta with his arm cocked back, so by that you're saying its proof that he was in mid attack?

Can't facepalm hard enough so go ahead, prove with 100% certainty with scans that Frieza was currently in mid-strike. I'm asking because I can only assume the site I'm on is skipping out on a page or something.

Originally posted by juggerman
He locked on to their location. He was not searching the entire planet. It was a B-Line.

Again it didn't have to be his top speed unless you think Buuhan needs to push himself to reach speeds Goku could reach before he could even go SSJ1. Doesn't hold water

When was that said?

Why bring it up if it had nothing to do with his top speed? If he was going his tops, Goku nor Vegeta, especially at black hair forms wouldn't have detected him which makes your post irrelevant. Now if you have proof of him going his tops and he was still unable to achieve light, then your argument would hold water but until then...

Originally posted by carver9
When was that said?

You're kidding right? Did you even follow the links? He says another strong fighter is here meaning he feels the ki. That's what he was closing in on

Originally posted by carver9
Why bring it up if it had nothing to do with his top speed? If he was going his tops, Goku nor Vegeta, especially at black hair forms wouldn't have detected him which makes your post irrelevant. Now if you have proof of him going his tops and he was still unable to achieve light, then your argument would hold water but until then...

Why would Buuhan need to go his top speed to reach a speed Goku could achieve before he even hit SSJ1?

Originally posted by BloodRain
No, the argument is that no one says the furthest point possible is not for or nearby. And because it was left unmentioned;

For added convenience when Piccolo is sent to Namek he says "Damn, they're not anywhere nearby" and "I sense a ridiculously huge ki far away from here". This was said when his PL was by his word surpassing Gohan and Krillin at that time, but stated by Nail to be still weaker than Frieza. Making his PL between 200,000 and 250,000.

Now lets go back to what you just said about Goku not thinking a planet distance away is far because he covered Snake way with a 5,000-8,000 PL.. See at this point you'll need to explain why your evidence doesn't count for Piccolo, when hes meant to be far above that Goku.

Neme already covered this. In the scans with Vegeta we can clearly see that the ship is on the dragons front and right of that image, meaning the island on the bottom right is only the first of two islands from the ship. So this point still stands up.

Lol that would still mean it would take Krillen flying at max speed around an hour to reach "almost the other side", when you're saying Dende can now fly at slow speeds and get to the opposite side while having the whole scuffle with Frieza within 40 minutes? And don't be quick to forget that base Frieza was flying at max speed from Nail to the ship and took the time he did, even with the dragon getting within eyes view. Or as said, Piccolo doing the exact same thing, first with lower then a higher PL than base Frieza.

Yeah, by the time Piccolo shows up they are three or four islands away from the ship. And since then no scan shows more than two islands in the background. Check it.

Calm son.

1. Dear lord what? Okay, so even though there was not a single flying around instance we see Krillin carrying Dende in this instance, its possible? No. Here's Dende's movement throughout the battle: At the summoning island up until stage 2 Frieza blows it up > then he's healing Krillin on the fourth island he swam up to, as Kirllin was thrown aside, at best he got some distance back, then is told by Piccolo to hide there > healing Piccolo and Vegeta on the same island, then dying there. Thats it. At no point did he either move more, was he carried besides Krillin saving him from the stage 2 blast, or was he even with the others a they were in combat. So yes, it is impossible that Dende was more than three or four islands away from the ship until his death. After that Frieza is kicking ass and still remaining on the same island until Goku shows up.

2. All caps means I'm serious?

They were a nearly the same distance from Frieza's ship as they were to Goku's? You know how far Goku's ship was? It's so close that a slow Gohan with barely any Ki remaining (As said by Piccolo early, back by Krillin saying he cannot fly that fast due to little ki) was carrying Piccolo and still made it to the ship in a short time.

Lets continue from where Dende left us;
Goku fights on that same island > Goku jumps out of the water and kicks Frieza though the next island and into the next, but Frieza hops back to Goku. At this point the trio have flown back and are three islands away > Frieza knocks him in an energy attack down, maybe to the next island > Goku flies back to Frieza who leads him to the next island > they stay here through the cross arm fight, through the kaio-ken, and until the spirit bomb (check it) > Frieza is kicked back by Piccolo around one island back, yes that scared island is the one they were fighting on. We also see that Gohan and Krillen are six islands away, which perfectly how far Frieza has been pushed back > they end up one island closer where Frieza was. Knocked another island back > blasted back another >...

..reverse time. At this point the dragon is brought back right around where the first island was destroyed, as shown from Dende's prespective. And not only do we see this second islands location in relation to where Frieza is, but Frieza also flies back to this area. It is on this island they have their final fight.

So yes, SS1 Goku is currently around four islands away from the ship.

And still, King Kai says Goku's ship is too far away.

3. Are you serious? You honesty don't have a counter to this, the foundation of your calc? 😐 You can't just say "hey, it could have happened" and call it a fact saying it did, 100%.

Jaysus I wish this part was at the top of the reply so maybe I could have avoided posting all the rest. Literally all you have is an image of Frieza crouching over Vegeta with his arm cocked back, so by that you're saying its proof that he was in mid attack?

Can't facepalm hard enough so go ahead, prove with 100% certainty with scans that Frieza was currently in mid-strike. I'm asking because I can only assume the site I'm on is skipping out on a page or something.

Basically, I'm replying to this dribble as shortly as possible, given that 99% of what you posted is either untrue, or just completely ridiculous.

1. Again, you're basing your entire argument off of a hastily made statement by someone who's legitimately brain damaged. Not just that, but going by your logic, he shouldn't have said nearby at all, considering they were, even with your ridiculous downplay, AT LEAST SEVERAL ISLANDS AWAY. You're not taking in the context of the statement, so I'm done arguing something I've already disproven undoubtedly to you a dozen times. 👆

2. Was Saiyan saga Goku the one saying that they were "nearby"? No, dummy. Moving on.

3. You still see the curvature of the planet, which is 3.5 times the size of Earth. If I was an idiot like you two, I could pixel scale the distance from that alone. But, I know that Toriyama doesn't draw to scale, unlike you and Neme apparently, so it's a waste of time pointing frivolous things like this out. 👆

4. "The time he did"? You act as though we were given the amount of time it took Frieza to reach them. Only a few brief moments, enough time to make a single wish once Frieza noticed the dragon was summoned.

5. Um, what? In the first few seconds of the fight, Goku and Frieza went to a different island, and after just a bit later, they even destroyed multiple islands, and had to find another to fight on because of Goku's preference.

6. Using your logic by visual perspective, you can still see a defined curvature of the planet, proving Dende was WAY more than, "a few islands", away from Porunga. Don't forget that it is even further from there to the ship, also. 👆

7. So no, SSJ1 Goku is an undefined amount of distance away from the ship, and it wouldn't matter anyway. Since we don't know how fast a planet would explode, we would have to gauge it to similar levels of those present in a supernova. Basically, the debris of the planet when detonated like that, would be launched ridiculously fast, about 10% the speed of light. If Goku didn't know where the ship was, and it wouldn't start that fast, it's no wonder such a blast was so close to catching him.

8. You're also forgetting to take into account the time it took to start his ship up, which is an unknown variable that I can easily use as context for my calc.

9. A counter to what? Literally all you're doing is saying that Krillin didn't carry him, because he didn't carry him. Which is not true. It's very possible, and most likely that he did. This, again, is supported by the fact that Dende had them carry him many times before.

10. Either way, I'm going to use one of your popular arguments, and chock that one up as PIS, as Dende should have been left behind LONG ago, even BEFORE Piccolo showed up. It's just something Toriyama didn't think about, like he said he does all the time.

Originally posted by chasedown
if goku is ls how come it took him so long to traverse snake way to get back to his friends during the saiyan saga........ he was flying at top speed too

Namek saga > Saiyan saga, genius.

Originally posted by juggerman
Those aren't speech bubbles when Superman is flying. Those are thought bubbles. You can think faster than you can talk. Also there are a plethora of direct text, both through narration and dialog than say Superman and others can move at light speed. Here you only have your faulty reasonings that must disregard what we actually see and are told. Also this is about DB. If you want to complain about Superman's speed open a thread

But basically what I'm getting from you is that you want to just chalk it up to PIS? It happens far too often to be just that. And you keep bringing up the anime as if it matters here when the original work tells us otherwise

If Buu could even go 1/100th the speed of light he would have been on top of Goku and Vegeta before they were able to get a word out. He was obviously trying to reach them quickly so even if he didn't wanna go his top speed he still should have been able to circle the planet once in less than a second. He couldn't. And if he can't nobody weaker than him can either

Uh, the one from the Spectre WAS a speech bubble. If Superman was going so fast, he should have in no way/shape or form been able to hear that. Either way, it was just a comparison to prove that it happens all the time in fiction. There's no point in arguing about PIS.

When did I bring up the anime? You were the one using the time frame we SEE in the anime as a gauge to speculate on the time span. That's retarded, and hilarious.

Buu did circle the planet in less than a second. Much less, in fact. the only thing you're arguing here is the fact that they were speaking, which proves nothing as it holds no water unless you can prove that the characters were speaking at human speeds(which you can't). Either way though, you can't argue about PIS, so I'm dropping it. Toriyama has never done a good job at using science anyway. He made an anime were characters can blow up stars, fly, ride flying cars, and other junk like moving FTL. Anything in a series that goes FTL doesn't surprise me. Again, you can't use science to determine these things. It's a cartoon for god sake. GG ❌

Your entire argument hinges on the claim that Goku traveled any distance in a span of time between Freeza throwing a punch and that punch hitting Vegeta. There is no proof of this claim, nor did you even address it in your latest few posts. Therefore, you have no argument. No one should feel compelled to respond to you anymore.

When you finally graduate high school and have some spare time on your hands I'd recommend taking a course in Logic. It would help you a great deal.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Your entire argument hinges on the claim that Goku traveled any distance in a span of time between Freeza throwing a punch and that punch hitting Vegeta. There is no proof of this claim, nor did you even address it in your latest few posts. Therefore, you have no argument. No one should feel compelled to respond to you anymore.

When you finally graduate high school and have some spare time on your hands I'd recommend taking a course in Logic. It would help you a great deal.

And their counter-argument relies on the basis that Frieza would sit over a barely conscious Vegeta with his fist hovering for an extended period. Usually when someone cocks their fist back, they mean to punch. 👆

Recommend what you may, but the fact of the matter, is that the person here who is suggesting Frieza to sit over Vegeta with his fist cocked back, waiting for someone to come save him, is totally retarded. I'll do that, while you get back to your special ed. 😉