Originally posted by juggerman👆
That's actually the one I was looking for but came across the one I posted first
I just wish there was a more accurate way to quantify SSJ4 Gogeta. However, in the original(and most canon) Japanese dub, Omega Shenron stated that he was at least 10x> before... And Goku(who can very accurately sense ki) didn't disagree:
This is important because prior to absorbing the Dragon Balls, Syn Shenron was already ~/> SSJ4 Goku. So using that figure, in conjunction with the multipliers I've mentioned before, it means Omega Shenron was at least 40,000x> SSJ3 Z Goku(4,000*10.)
As for SSJ4 Gogeta: even if we only assume he was 2x> Omega Shenron, it still means he was 80,000x> SSJ3 Z Goku(40,000*2.) However, I'd say Gogeta stomped Omega just as easily as Omega stomped SSJ4 Goku/Vegeta(probably even easier.) So if we assume the gap between SSJ4 Gogeta and Omega was proportional to the gap between Omega and SSJ4 Goku(ie. ~10x), it means that Gogeta would have been ~400,000x> SSJ3 Z Goku(40,000*10.)
Most people won't accept such absurd levels/multipliers(admittedly, it's hard for even me to fathom/stomach)... But it is what it is. /shrug
Suffice to say: on paper, I doubt anything in the DBS-era will ever approach the level of peak SSJ4 Goku/Vegeta... Much less Omega Shenron... And nevermind SSJ4 Gogeta. They're just that retardedly powerful, unfortunately. 😘
Originally posted by Galan007
👆I just wish there was a more accurate way to quantify SSJ4 Gogeta. However, in the original(and most canon) Japanese dub, Omega Shenron stated that he was at least 10x> before... And Goku(who can very accurately sense ki) didn't disagree:
This is important because prior to absorbing the Dragon Balls, Syn Shenron was already ~/> SSJ4 Goku. So using that figure, in conjunction with the multipliers I've mentioned before, it means Omega Shenron was at least [b]40,000x>
SSJ3 Z Goku(4,000*10.)As for SSJ4 Gogeta: even if we only assume he was 2x> Omega Shenron, it still means he was 80,000x> SSJ3 Z Goku(40,000*2.) However, I'd say Gogeta stomped Omega just as easily as Omega stomped SSJ4 Goku/Vegeta(probably even easier.) So if we assume the gap between SSJ4 Gogeta and Omega was proportional to the gap between Omega and SSJ4 Goku(ie. ~10x), it means that Gogeta would have been ~400,000x> SSJ3 Z Goku(40,000*10.)
Most people won't accept such absurd levels/multipliers(admittedly, it's hard for even me to fathom/stomach)... But it is what it is. /shrug
Suffice to say: on paper, I doubt anything in the DBS-era will ever approach the level of peak SSJ4 Goku/Vegeta... Much less Omega Shenron... And nevermind SSJ4 Gogeta. They're just that retardedly powerful, unfortunately. 😘 [/B]
I'm sure you know very well that the gaps you listed are the bare minum ones.
In reality they are much greater since Ssj4 Goku gets stronger every saga: Ssj4 Goku at Baby < Ssj4 Goku vs 17 < Ssj4 Goku vs dragons < Ssj4 Goku's 10X Kamehameha < Surpassed limits Ssj4 Goku vs Syn (more than 10 times greater than before, since he was more powerful than his own 10X Kamehameha) = Ssj4 Vegeta (thanks Bulma) < Omega (~10x) < Ssj4 Gogeta (few tens of times stronger than Surpassed limits Ssj4 Goku).
Ssj4 Gogeta is easily above million of times stronger than Z Ssj3 Goku.
Originally posted by bbrem123When did they need to destroy a galaxy in GT, though? When did they need to destroy a solar system? A star? Etc. Rhetorical: they didn't.
seriously if they even destroy a galaxy. That trumps GT.I see where the GT stance comes from but. Multiplies only go so far
Statements have always been the primary source of information regarding a character's power level in DB. These are characters who can very accurately sense ki, after all--their word is nigh-irrefutable. Aside from that, high-end displays of raw ki output in the form of collateral damage, while nice to have, are not the end-all/be-all for determining a character's power... Never have been. Feats like those are simply not that plentiful in general.
...Yet when it comes to GT, all of the sudden people want to start acting like feats are all that matter, because they just don't want to accept how powerful GT characters were. Evidently it's not enough that Cell was a confirmed solar system-buster, and GT Goku toyed with him(and Freeza) as though he/they were fodder, in his BASE level. No, no. If Goku didn't destroy a solar system or galaxy himself, he's weaksauce who doesn't live up to his hype.
I just don't get the double-standard here..? I don't like GT multipliers either, but I can at least accept them. /shrug
Originally posted by AuraAngelThat is why I am saying the multipliers are flawed. If we see some kind of feat like that in DBS
A galaxy is a bit more impressive than a solar system.Not that I'm interested in galaxy busting. Having multiple universes makes universe busting seem possible. And no amount of multipliers gets GT Goku to that dude. Galaxy sure. But universe? Nah.
It really isn't flawed. Someone with a higher power level can generate far more power than someone with a lesser power level. This has been proven ongoing...even with people that are 'near' equals. Power levels are an indication of raw power and the power level difference doesn't have to be major either. A good example of this is Vegeta vs Goku first fight or Gohan vs Cell. On and on and on. If Cell can Solar system bust and we know there are beings that are millions of times more powerful then that should give you a clew on what these beings are capable of.
Originally posted by Galan007
When did they need to destroy a galaxy in GT, though? When did they need to destroy a solar system? A star? Etc. Rhetorical: they didn't.Statements have always been the primary source of information regarding a character's power level in DB. These are characters who can very accurately sense ki, after all--their word is nigh-irrefutable. Aside from that, high-end displays of raw ki output in the form of collateral damage, while nice to have, are not the end-all/be-all for determining a character's power... Never have been. Feats like those are simply not that plentiful in general.
...Yet when it comes to GT, all of the sudden people want to start acting like feats are all that matter, because they just don't want to accept how powerful GT characters were. Evidently it's not enough that Cell was a confirmed solar system-buster, and GT Goku toyed with him(and Freeza) as though he/they were fodder, in his BASE level. No, no. If Goku didn't destroy a solar system or galaxy himself, he's weaksauce who doesn't live up to his hype.
I just don't get the double-standard here..? I don't like GT multipliers either, but I can at least accept them. /shrug
GT characters could be a billion times more powerful than a solar system buster and they still couldn't destroy our galaxy.
k, just got around to seeing this movie. REALLY liked it! I think it was way better then Battle of Gods.
so after browsing through this thread, most of the questions i had about the movie were answered by previous posts. one thing though: what in the hell type of attack did Frieza use to destroy earth? i'm talking about THIS.
?? 😕
Originally posted by john allerdyceImo, Freeza destabilized/destroyed the Earth's core with a kiai, which subsequently resulted in the destruction of the entire planet. We've seen numerous characters use a kiai several times in the past--here's an example of Freeza himself using this ability:
k, just got around to seeing this movie. REALLY liked it! I think it was way better then Battle of Gods.so after browsing through this thread, most of the questions i had about the movie were answered by previous posts. one thing though: what in the hell type of attack did Frieza use to destroy earth? i'm talking about THIS.
?? 😕
Anyway, while a kiai has never been used on such a large scale as Freeza used it in RoF(not even close actually), I am not at all surprised that he was able to do so. After all, 4th form Freeza(RoF) is one of the most powerful characters in the mythos--only surpassed by Goku/Vegeta and Whis/Beerus, respectively.
Originally posted by Galan007
^ He pushed down on the ground as he released the kiai(which is what caused all of the damage.)It's not a strength feat, carver. Stop digging. srsly
There was no kiai.
He simply pushed downward, and the planet blew up.
Kind of like how Bills blows up planets, just by tapping them.
I don't think Carver's really digging here. I don't see it as a strength feat, because you can't destroy a planet by pushing downward on the surface a couple of feet, no matter how strong you are, but there was definitely no kiai.
Originally posted by ares834
GT characters could be a billion times more powerful than a solar system buster and they still couldn't destroy our galaxy.
It doesn't quite work like that, in DBZ.
The strongest confirmed buster we have in DBZ, was Super Perfect Cell, before Bills came into play. And Bills is a universe buster.
There is no way that Bills is legitimately over 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times stronger than Super Perfect Cell. That's 100 sextillion, btw.
At most, he's probably around 100 times stronger than Super Perfect Cell. Yet their powers go from solar system busting, to universe busting.
