Dragon Ball Z: Revival of "F"

Originally posted by Galan007
Beerus is still > Goku and Vegeta individually, but together they can match him. By DB standards, this means their powers must be fairly close to his, otherwise he'd stomp them both with little effort. Remember, in DB numbers are inconsequential... More powerful is more powerful.

And as of BoG, Toriyama stated:
Whis=15
Beerus=10
SSJG Goku=6.0

That said, I would imagine that BSSJG Goku and Vegeta are each about an 8.0, to Beerus' 10 now. While it wasn't explicitly stated that BSSJG>SSJG, we know that Goku and Vegeta have each underwent fairly extensive training with Whis since BoG--which means their powers are undoubtedly > what they were in BoG. BSSJG is, after all, a more perfected SSJG, without a time-limit. Aside from that, I can't imagine anything less than 8.0's being able to match Beerus. /shrug

With further training and evolution(which you know is bound to happen), I have no doubt that Goku and Vegeta will eventually surpass Beerus.

Pretty sure Akira has this in mind.

He already named the god form Super Saiyan. He seems to be following a trends with the transformations.

God I hope not.

I'd rather have Goku and Vegeta be able to perpetually expand upon their Godly ki in their current states. No more transformations... That BS is WAY overdone.

yeah. he should go back to writing new tecniques and outsmarts. All the transformations are way way overdone

In Toriyama's defense, the transformations have eclipsed much of his manga due to his executing them as well as he does. They're also simply fun to draw and see because it is altering how a character looks and mangaka love to do that. Naruto went through 3 super modes in the Ninja War alone and that is to say nothing of Ichigo at times.

But yeah some new techniques would not hurt anything. Say what you want about the Buu Saga, characters like Buu, Dabura, and Gotenks had neat move sets. Even Vegerott had a cool beam sword.

To be fair they are not so much different transformation but the same ones using a different power source.

I imagine Whis having a transformation that buffs him a hundredfold.

The blue hair transformation would make sense if it somehow tied to the same energy source as the Kamehameha. That's something that just popped to mind watching ROF.

Does anyone have Galan post where he compared the Z fighters to GT characters? The power difference.

He's posted it in several (or dozens of, even) threads, don't be so lazy, carver.

First, you didn't even see BoG despite having Internet access 24/7, now this...

In short, base Goku from GT was around as strong - or stronger - than Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku. Vegeta took on both Baby Gohan and infected Goten, Piccolo survived a kamehameha from Baby Gohan, etc. Everyone improved a lot, especially Goku.

Now that I think about it. I really liked how GT brought back the oozaru and integrated it into the SSJ4.

It is strange how there was never a SSJ with a tail. Dont like how they completely did away with the tail when it was the main focus of a good part of db/dbz

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He's posted it in several (or dozens of, even) threads, don't be so lazy, carver.

First, you didn't even see BoG despite having Internet access 24/7, now this...

In short, base Goku from GT was around as strong - or stronger - than Buu Saga SSJ3 Goku. Vegeta took on both Baby Gohan and infected Goten, Piccolo survived a kamehameha from Baby Gohan, etc. Everyone improved a lot, especially Goku.

😂

I seen BOG the first week it came out. Then seen it with subs. Seen it again DUBBED.

I just can't find his post.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He's posted it in several (or dozens of, even) threads, don't be so lazy, carver.

Originally posted by carver9
😂

I seen BOG the first week it came out. Then seen it with subs. Seen it again DUBBED.

I just can't find his post.

Wait, so you've seen it at least 3 times and still did not remember the basic fact about the SSJG ritual? 😕

Man they better explain how Vegeta can now go SSJG

Originally posted by bbrem123
Man they better explain how Vegeta can now go SSJG

I guess DB Super will explain it all in detail.

... I hope. Then again, it was never revealed/shown when or how exactly Vegeta reached SSJ2.

Originally posted by bbrem123
Man they better explain how Vegeta can now go SSJG

What I'm more interested in is how they became BSSJG--as that is an entirely different level of mastery, imo.

What thread did he post it in?

Who loves ya baby?

Originally posted by Galan007
Not necessarily. You just have to connect the dots, is all. 🙂

In GT, Goku stated that base Rildo was "even more powerful than Majin Buu"--yet Goku went on to stalemate Rildo as a base-level Saiyan. Thus we know base-level GT Goku~SSJ3 Z Goku, as that was the power required to contend with Majin Buu in Z. Subsequently, this means base-level GT Goku is at least [b]400x> base-level Z Goku(remember, in Z a SSJ3 is 400x> base.) And given how easily Goku trounced Frieza and Cell as a base-level Saiyan, the above seems completely logical.

When GT Goku went SSJ later on in their battle, his power increased "a hundred fold" according to Rildo. This means SSJ GT Goku was roughly 100x more powerful than SSJ3 Z Goku.

Even if we assume the SSJ2-SSJ3 multipliers were the same in GT as they were in Z(they were probably much greater, given the above) then it puts SSJ2 GT Goku at 200x> SSJ3 Z Goku, and SSJ3 GT Goku at 800x> SSJ3 Z Goku.

If we then use the commonly accepted SSJ4 multiplier of 10x a SSJ3, it puts SSJ4 Goku at 8,000x> SSJ3 Z Goku, and 3,200,000x> base-level Z Goku. Given all the hype a SSJ4 was given by the Kais+the fact that it was powerful enough to override a wish from the all-powerful Black Star Dragon+plus having Super-Baby as a visible gauge between a SSJ3 and a SSJ4... The 10x multiplier certainly isn't an overestimation, imo.

Now we can factor in Omega Shenron. He effortlessly trounced SSJ4 Goku AND SSJ4 Vegeta at the same time, in a ridiculously...laughably...retardedly one-sided shit-stomp.

ie. Omega Shenron>>>>SSJ4 Goku(8,000x)>SSJ3 Z Goku.

All of that being said, Omega Shenron was, in all likelihood, tenS of thousandS of timeS more powerful than SSJ3 Z Goku. I simply don't think Bills was portrayed as that much more powerful than Z Goku(and for good reason.)

BoG takes place 5 years after the battle with Majin Buu--the 28th WMAT(the final canon 'arc' of Z) takes place 10 years after the battle with Buu--GT begins 5 years after the conclusion of Z.

So basically there's a 10 year gap between BoG and GT. [/B]

You are the best. Thanks friend.

This post breaks down SSJ1-SSJ4 a little better, imo:

Originally posted by Galan007
Base GT Goku~base Rilldo, who was confirmed to be "even more powerful than Majin Boo." This means base GT Goku ~/> SSJ3 Z Goku.

That said, when GT Goku transformed into a SSJ, his PL would have increased by [b]50x. When he transformed into SSJ2, his PL would have increased by an additional 2x. When he transformed into SSJ3, his PL would have increased by an additional 4x.

As for SSJ4: we also know that Super Baby Vegeta 2(who was >> SSJ3 GT Goku) gained a 10x power increase when he became a Golden Oozaru. This is important because n00b SSJ4 Goku was on par with Golden Oozaru Baby. Subsequently, this means SSJ4 was upwards of 10x> SSJ3.

In a nutshell:
n00b SSJ4 Goku [10x>] SSJ3 GT Goku [4x>] SSJ2 GT Goku [2x>] SSJ GT Goku [50x>] base GT Goku [~] base Rilldo [>] Majin Boo [~] SSJ3 Z Goku [400x>] base Z Goku.

OR we can simplify it by saying that n00b SSJ4 Goku was at least 4,000x> SSJ3 Z Goku... And by the Super 17 arc, he'd become a lot more powerful still. 🙂

Stupid as it sounds, that is the type of absurd power we're dealing with in GT. [/B]