Superman VS Thor: STRENGTH RANKING · Comic Book 'Versus' Forum

ODG Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by Reflassshh
So you admitedly ignore Atom's statements. Good to know 👆

Boldly lying about the course of this conversation isn't going to improve your position, son.

Originally posted by Reflassshh
If the gravitational field wasn't removed why would they have had to restrain it with that thing they did?

Begging already-answered questions won't either. The magnetic field was eroding due to Mnemon's efforts. Superman had to bolster it before it fully released. As was pointed out about two dozen times throughout this thread by half a dozen posters. From the comic itself.

Originally posted by Reflassshh
Clark didn't grab a fully released black hole though,

Originally posted by Reflassshh
but it's obvious that the pressure was increasing and that the MF was almost/gone. That's why they had to do that maneuver. Damn impressive even for a shared feat.

Impressive. Not a solar system level feat for Superman. Not when static electricity and a Green Lantern play their part.

Originally posted by Reflassshh
At this point you're trying to dismiss everything that's written in the book and claiming your word as law. That's a proper way to debate, isn't it?

Considering we now both agree Superman didn't exhibit solar system level strength, your accusations of my dismissiveness are rather pointless. That you want to ignore that I've provided multiple facts that were glossed over that provide fuller context to the feat in question, is your prerogative.

Let's not pretend this was ever a debate. It's the same old tired cycle of mythcrafting, followed by mythbusting, followed by the limp recriminations that the mythbusters are only haters because they dared to read the comic plainly. I.e., another Superman thread.

Star428 Restricted

More like "typical Superman haters that deny facts" instead.

h1a8 Senior Member

Whether the black hole can Instantly destroy a solar system is irrelevant. The gravitational force of one is infinite at the singularity, no matter the mass. So what Superman did was an infinite feat.

Silent Master Senior Member

LOL!!!! of course you'd say that.

ODG Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by Star428
More like "typical Superman haters that deny facts" instead.

Like clockwork:

Originally posted by ODG
followed by the limp recriminations that the mythbusters are only haters because they dared to read the comic plainly. I.e., another Superman thread.

Get some phucking self-awareness, please.

One thing I forgot to add to the cycle list: socks trying to make it look like the discussion isn't as lopsided as it actually is.

leonidas MWHAHAHAHA!

well, this thread got interesting. lol i think odg is right as regards his interpretation of the early portion of the book. i don't think the solar systems were destroyed by the black hole. imo that became pretty obvious from rereading the book. those worlds/systems were collateral damage resulting from the loss of memory of so many of those worlds denizens. there is no way to assume mnemon was able to 'unleash' the power of the black hole in that type of offensive way--it also makes no sense tbh. his purpose wasn't destruction, it was gathering memories. so...yeah.

this discussion of 'solar system level strength' is pretty funny though. wth does that even mean to anyone...? 😕

what do we know? we know the black hole (if we simply take the scan at its word), if released from its shielding, would have grown to consume a solar system. does that mean this field has 'solar system level strength' (again, whatever the hell that means.....)?? well, no, not exactly. but it was strong enough to prevent the expansion of said hole, which is pretty damn impressive no matter how you cut it as it was able to withstand the pressures exerted by the black hole. the size of the black hole doesn't matter btw. the singularity is...infinitely smaller than a speck of dust. i mean a singularity has no size at all (in theory) or if it does it's no larger than what, a planck length? so even that 'speck of dust' would have had an event horizon (dust sized) that would have been itching to grow. it would still have had all the power of a black hole with a massive event horizon. the singularity is the important part.... the field was also strong enough to easily perform a feat superman and green lantern, combined, could only manage for seconds. so, i think it's safe to say the magnetic field was pretty strong.....

that said, clearly it was a synthetic creation, and so who knows what that says about its mass but since mnemon carried it easily it couldn't have been very 'heavy' (something i again realized after rereading the issue). so, what was so impressive about the feat then? well, superman, however briefly, was able to both reverse the expanding event horizon (the effect we saw would have been dilation as the event horizon approached) and then hold it in, resisting the pull of the partially freed singularity and somehow (using purely comic book logic) preventing the expansion of the event horizon. both things should, in theory, be impossible of course.

i have no idea if the feat is a strength feat, (resisting the pull of the singularity) in endurance feat or a durability feat, but it's likely a combo of all of them and any way you slice it, it is a pretty dern impressive feat imo.

that said, of course, we've all seen how comics deal with black holes--sometimes they are awesome!!1!, and sometimes....not so much. so feel free to factor that into your evaluation of the feat. regardless, is it the greatest feat ever?? no, but it is impressive, at least imo.

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Heh, ODG as usual dismissing evidence which doesn't suits him. Why am I not surprised?

Oh yeah, he does it everytime.

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by leonidas
well, this thread got interesting. lol i think odg is right as regards his interpretation of the early portion of the book. i don't think the solar systems were destroyed by the black hole. imo that became pretty obvious from rereading the book. those worlds/systems were collateral damage resulting from the loss of memory of so many of those worlds denizens. there is no way to assume mnemon was able to 'unleash' the power of the black hole in that type of offensive way--it also makes no sense tbh. his purpose wasn't destruction, it was gathering memories. so...yeah.
this discussion of 'solar system level strength' is pretty funny though. wth does that even mean to anyone...? 😕
what do we know? we know the black hole (if we simply take the scan at its word), if released from its shielding, would have grown to consume a solar system. does that mean this field has 'solar system level strength' (again, whatever the hell that means.....)?? well, no, not exactly. but it was strong enough to prevent the expansion of said hole, which is pretty damn impressive no matter how you cut it as it was able to withstand the pressures exerted by the black hole. the size of the black hole doesn't matter btw. the singularity is...infinitely smaller than a speck of dust. i mean a singularity has no size at all (in theory) or if it does it's no larger than what, a planck length? so even that 'speck of dust' would have had an event horizon (dust sized) that would have been itching to grow. it would still have had all the power of a black hole with a massive event horizon. the singularity is the important part.... the field was also strong enough to easily perform a feat superman and green lantern, combined, could only manage for seconds. so, i think it's safe to say the magnetic field was pretty strong.....
that said, clearly it was a synthetic creation, and so who knows what that says about its mass but since mnemon carried it easily it couldn't have been very 'heavy' (something i again realized after rereading the issue). so, what was so impressive about the feat then? well, superman, however briefly, was able to both reverse the expanding event horizon (the effect we saw would have been dilation as the event horizon approached) and then hold it in, resisting the pull of the partially freed singularity and somehow (using purely comic book logic) preventing the expansion of the event horizon. both things should, in theory, be impossible of course.
i have no idea if the feat is a strength feat, (resisting the pull of the singularity) in endurance feat or a durability feat, but it's likely a combo of all of them and any way you slice it, it is a pretty dern impressive feat imo.
that said, of course, we've all seen how comics deal with black holes--sometimes they are awesome!!1!, and sometimes....not so much. so feel free to factor that into your evaluation of the feat. regardless, is it the greatest feat ever?? no, but it is impressive, at least imo.

So interjecting your own view into Atom's statement? Where did Atom say that the black hole would grow to destroy solar system.

And it's a phucking comic book. If atom said the magnetic field was stopping a solar system level black hole, it was. You don't need to prove it.

psycho gundam The Nightmare of Solomon

Originally posted by h1a8
all black holes are singularities. They have no size. The minimum mass is 10 solar masses. Those are the minature ones. A 1 solar mass black hole (if it existed) could destroy a universe. The gravitation force is infinite at the singularity. Nothing can withstand it. Nice try though

Not true at all.

The minimum is 3, not 10 (in the real world) but in the comic the SYNTHETIC singularity had an event horizon small enough to just warp the light in the room without killing Batman so it was infinitesimal in power compared to anything in reality.

It was a crumb of a black hole

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Not true at all.
The minimum is 3, not 10 (in the real world) but in the comic the SYNTHETIC singularity had an event horizon small enough to just warp the light in the room without killing Batman so it was infinitesimal in power compared to anything in reality.
It was a crumb of a black hole

It warped superman but he caught it before it could exert it's gravitational field any more.

There is no way to circumvent around Atom's statement. DCs greatest scientist flat out said it but it's still getting questioned?

Laughable.

leonidas MWHAHAHAHA!

Originally posted by abhilegend
So interjecting your own view into Atom's statement? Where did Atom say that the black hole would grow to destroy solar system.
And it's a phucking comic book. If atom said the magnetic field was stopping a solar system level black hole, it was. You don't need to prove it.

which statement? that it would destroy the solar system? i already said it would do so.... 😕 but black holes don't just...instantly destroy anything. they grow and draw material into themselves. it's what they do. the effects grew as soon as the field was breached. and like i said, it doesn't matter the size of the event horizon--a singularity is a singularity so imo it would have been as powerful as any black hole--unless you want to say it's not because it was synthetic but given the threat it manifested it seemed to react like a regular black hole, which means it would grow as it consumed.

ANY black hole is a 'solar system' level black hole--if if exists long enough and is allowed to grow to sufficient size, so sure, if you want to say it was a solar system level shield (meaningless terminology imo, and a misnomer in the sense that "all" it did was contain the pressure of a black hole) go nuts. i don't think the term 'solar system level' adds to the feat at all (i mean unchecked it should go on to consume the galaxy, so is it a galactic level black hole....?) and it's already plenty impressive enough.

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

OK, fair enough.

Spawningpool Cheeky Bastard

Super win this

JBL Wrestling God

Originally posted by h1a8
Whether the black hole can Instantly destroy a solar system is irrelevant. The gravitational force of one is infinite at the singularity, no matter the mass. So what Superman did was an infinite feat.

That black hole was so small that it could be held in a toddlers hand, it did not one thing to the room or the humans in that room. Trying to give that thing the power of a super-sized black hole is laughable, i can see if the earth started shaking or the coffee cup fell on the floor, then you would have a claim. The coffee cup thing means you are trying to give that thing power to destroy a solar system when it could not even knock a coffee cup off the table or topple humans. 🙁

celeyhyga17 Yawning Void

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a black hole increase in mass from the stuffs it pulls into itself? And consequently that should increase it's gravitational pull right?

What say u physics eggheads?

h1a8 Senior Member

Originally posted by psycho gundam
Not true at all.
The minimum is 3, not 10 (in the real world) but in the comic the SYNTHETIC singularity had an event horizon small enough to just warp the light in the room without killing Batman so it was infinitesimal in power compared to anything in reality.
It was a crumb of a black hole

All black holes are smaller than crumbs. Also, you are confusing a neutron star with a black hole. It takes about 10 solar masses to form a natural black hole.
Synthetic or not, the writer's intent was that it was equivalent to a real black hole, the same as comic bullets are the same as real bullets. Lol, at you using Leo's point as your own.

Anyway, my argument was that size or mass is irrelevant since the force is infinite at the singularity. So why correct irrelevant things?

h1a8 Senior Member

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't a black hole increase in mass from the stuffs it pulls into itself? And consequently that should increase it's gravitational pull right?
What say u physics eggheads?

That's true. I didn't read the whole comic but from the scans it seems the black hole ate a galaxy or multiple solar systems or something. Someone correct me. If so then the black hole was very massive.

pym-ftw Mizukage

Everything H1 just said is not backed by fact

Also your Sig shows you lack of understanding of the boards rules.

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by JBL
That black hole was so small that it could be held in a toddlers hand, it did not one thing to the room or the humans in that room. Trying to give that thing the power of a super-sized black hole is laughable, i can see if the earth started shaking or the coffee cup fell on the floor, then you would have a claim. The coffee cup thing means you are trying to give that thing power to destroy a solar system when it could not even knock a coffee cup off the table or topple humans. 🙁

So if that black hole was so weak, how come DCs greatest scientist said it would destroy the whole solar system or superman said it would rip his hands off?

h1a8 Senior Member

Originally posted by JBL
That black hole was so small that it could be held in a toddlers hand, it did not one thing to the room or the humans in that room. Trying to give that thing the power of a super-sized black hole is laughable, i can see if the earth started shaking or the coffee cup fell on the floor, then you would have a claim. The coffee cup thing means you are trying to give that thing power to destroy a solar system when it could not even knock a coffee cup off the table or topple humans. 🙁

you shouldn't be participating in this discussion since you know next to nothing about black holes.

ALL BLACK HOLES are singularities. That means they are so small that they are smaller than a speck of dust. No black hole is large. The masses of black holes vary, but not their size. Super massive black holes have millions of solar masses but are atom sizes or less.

Also, no matter the mass, the force is infinite at the singularity.