Originally posted by h1a8
and I can show you a scan of the real spiderman fighting venom and stating and being shown to be faster than him.Like I said, Gamora wasn't shown faster just because she hit him. Slow beings have hit Superman. Venom didn't use SS so he wasn't fighting to the best of his abilities.
Venom could not hit her. Did you even read the book? It's obvious that you didn't, and are just lying at this point.
Originally posted by Stoicvenom hit her once. Why in the hell would I say that if it didn't happen and where anyone can verify? That's stupid. But even when she dodged doesn't prove she is faster than him. Batman has dodged supposedly faster attacks too. And remember that you talked about judging attacks due to skill give a false impression of speed. Well it should apply to Gamora too.
Venom could not hit her. Did you even read the book? It's obvious that you didn't, and are just lying at this point.
Not trying to interrupt your argument guys just want to add my two cents. Venom is as fast as Spidey but less agile. But I wouldn't use him as a measuring stick, in his "hulked out" form when he increases his mass he's slower than when in human shape (i.e. Brock) Taskmaster was also shown running circles around him. Also Flash is no Brock.
Originally posted by h1a8
venom hit her once. Why in the hell would I say that if it didn't happen and where anyone can verify? That's stupid. But even when she dodged doesn't prove she is faster than him. Batman has dodged supposedly faster attacks too. And remember that you talked about judging attacks due to skill give a false impression of speed. Well it should apply to Gamora too.
He hit her once, and then she decided that it was time to take him to school. She literally played with him. What do you mean it doesn't prove that she's faster than he is? You better go back and look at that fight closer. She reacted, and dodged him/it after the attack was made. It's best that you go back and look at that fight like I said, or you pretty much have resorted to lying since like I said before you don't even believe that Batman would beat Gamora. I mean look at the handicap that you placed on the match. Even with it he's one hit from away from a coma in this match.
Originally posted by SamZED
Not trying to interrupt your argument guys just want to add my two cents. Venom is as fast as Spidey but less agile. But I wouldn't use him as a measuring stick, in his "hulked out" form when he increases his mass he's slower than when in human shape (i.e. Brock) Taskmaster was also shown running circles around him. Also Flash is no Brock.
Excellent points. Venom (Flash) didn't become as large as it did when facing off against Colossus when it was trying to kill Gamora in that scene. It was also in full control of the host body (Flash) so it can easily be argued that the Venom that faced off against Gamora went in with all of it's prior experiences in terms of combat tactics, except that this time it was 100% going for the kill. Gamora handled it a lot easier than Spider Man ever did. This is above Batman's pay grade.
Batman is down in the Captain America/Daredevil tier as I said several times before. Then you have Wolverine, and Spider Man on a higher tier, and then you have Venom, who was made to be superior to Spider Man by a very slight margin. You don't tool Venom, if you lack the physical attributes to do so. I mean would you give Daredevil the majority against Venom?
Originally posted by Sin I AM
I just dont get how if Batman is so superior to Gamora why would he need the adamantium assist?
Exactly. It's gotten to the point that h1a8 doesn't seem to possess common sense. He also admitted that he did not believe that Batman could beat her without the slight handicap.
This has gone on so long, that in order to get a point across to him, you literally have to prove things that should automatically be understood. For one; if you have two individuals who have practiced all of their lives to be agile, and to use martial arts, but one of them can lift at max 1 ton (maybe), and the other can roughly lift between 60-70 tons, it shouldn't be difficult to come to the conclusion that the stronger character would be naturally faster without leaving out that that the far stronger character is also smaller, and weighs less.
Everything about Gamora screams superior to Batman in every physical way. The idea that she has a super skeleton also shows that her body can withstand higher gravity's of force, and her bodies stress tolerances would be astronomically higher than his are. Not to mention that anything that slips through those parameters would be dealt with by her healing factor. I know that you didn't ask for my summary, but it's hard to believe that some people wouldn't automatically see this from jump street.
Originally posted by Stoic
He hit her once, and then she decided that it was time to take him to school. She literally played with him. What do you mean it doesn't prove that she's faster than he is? You better go back and look at that fight closer. She reacted, and dodged him/it after the attack was made. It's best that you go back and look at that fight like I said, or you pretty much have resorted to lying since like I said before you don't even believe that Batman would beat Gamora. I mean look at the handicap that you placed on the match. Even with it he's one hit from away from a coma in this match.
Remember, I read the fight. It looked like he was going to kill her eventually. She was just buying time. It didn't look pretty for her. Anyway you are contradicting yourself. You said earlier that Batman feats of speed is due to him using his skill by judging and anticipating attacks. Now when Gamora does it then it is pure speed? I told you a billion times that Batman has multiple feats where he reacts and first moves AFTER the attack is launched. I'm talking about against very fast shit too.
Batman has armored suit and have literally taken blows from beings far stronger than Gamora multiple times. She would literally have to hit him in the face flush in order to one shot him. This is very difficult for her to do without her limb getting cut off. Anyway, batman can still easily slice off one of her limbs in defense to one of her attacks against him. She has a chance though, they both do. But IMO, batman in this situation edges her out.
You are really going to argue that Batman's armor can stand up to far above cl 60-70 level force, Because doing so would basically mean that the hundreds of examples of him being effected and injured by everyone from street to mid-tier heroes are PIS.
I really hope that is what you're saying, because that would prove to the entire board that you're nothing but a troll.
Originally posted by h1a8
Remember, I read the fight. It looked like he was going to kill her eventually. She was just buying time. It didn't look pretty for her. Anyway you are contradicting yourself. You said earlier that Batman feats of speed is due to him using his skill by judging and anticipating attacks. Now when Gamora does it then it is pure speed? I told you a billion times that Batman has multiple feats where he reacts and first moves AFTER the attack is launched. I'm talking about against very fast shit too.Batman has armored suit and have literally taken blows from beings far stronger than Gamora multiple times. She would literally have to hit him in the face flush in order to one shot him. This is very difficult for her to do without her limb getting cut off. Anyway, batman can still easily slice off one of her limbs in defense to one of her attacks against him. She has a chance though, they both do. But IMO, batman in this situation edges her out.
First of all let's end this farce. You gave Batman tools that you assumed would give him the victory because he now has an even greater reach than he did with only his hands, but it is still not enough for him to win. The reason that you gave him the swords was because you thought that Gamora would beat him correct? I mean this is what you said. The question here is why did you believe that Gamora would defeat him? Could it have been because she has superior attributes? I believe so. You should just quit now, because the only thing that you've proven thus far is that you are very good at trolling, and being dishonest even with yourself.
Now to address what you believe to be a contradiction on my part. They both anticipate telegraphed moves from less skilled opponents than they are. i gave you a solid example of this when I told you that you will always know when a person is about to kick you. Their shoulders drop. So to put it all together. They both use speed, agility, and anticipation to dictate their next move. Gamora is just that much better at it due to her increased speed over him, which is granted by her being vastly stronger, lighter, and smaller than him.
So to nail this coffin shut on you; You believed that Gamora would stomp an unarmed Batman. Why is that? I'll answer for you. You knew without a reasonable doubt, that she was physically superior to Batman in every way, and this is why you attempted to tailor a fight between the two giving him a reach advantage, but then realized that you would have had to tie her up in order for him to win.
Venom did not almost defeat her, she was in control of the entire match, and yes if she allowed it, Venom could have killed her, but this isn't saying much. If Venom was allowed to run his tendrils up the nose of Superman, he would do serious if not permanent damage to his brain. Gamora won the fight, lets not make up things that were not there.
She would also cut right through his armor. She actually has the strength to rip that suit right off of him, not to mention how stupid the suit actually is in terms of that idiotic cape that she could easily pull over his head, and beat the life out of him while she drags him from one position to the next.
Originally posted by Stoic
First of all let's end this farce. You gave Batman tools that you assumed would give him the victory because he now has an even greater reach than he did with only his hands, but it is still not enough for him to win. The reason that you gave him the swords was because you thought that Gamora would beat him correct? I mean this is what you said. The question here is why did you believe that Gamora would defeat him? Could it have been because she has superior attributes? I believe so. You should just quit now, because the only thing that you've proven thus far is that you are very good at trolling, and being dishonest even with yourself.Now to address what you believe to be a contradiction on my part. They both anticipate telegraphed moves from less skilled opponents than they are. i gave you a solid example of this when I told you that you will always know when a person is about to kick you. Their shoulders drop. So to put it all together. They both use speed, agility, and anticipation to dictate their next move. Gamora is just that much better at it due to her increased speed over him, which is granted by her being vastly stronger, lighter, and smaller than him.
So to nail this coffin shut on you; You believed that Gamora would stomp an unarmed Batman. Why is that? I'll answer for you. You knew without a reasonable doubt, that she was physically superior to Batman in every way, and this is why you attempted to tailor a fight between the two giving him a reach advantage, but then realized that you would have had to tie her up in order for him to win.
Venom did not almost defeat her, she was in control of the entire match, and yes if she allowed it, Venom could have killed her, but this isn't saying much. If Venom was allowed to run his tendrils up the nose of Superman, he would do serious if not permanent damage to his brain. Gamora won the fight, lets not make up things that were not there.
She would also cut right through his armor. She actually has the strength to rip that suit right off of him, not to mention how stupid the suit actually is in terms of that idiotic cape that she could easily pull over his head, and beat the life out of him while she drags him from one position to the next.
Gamora would beat Batman straight up in a h2h fight because she is a lot stronger while being a peer in skill, speed, and agility. Not because she is faster.
Now you are using question begging reasoning when you say that Gamora is faster in combat speed because she is stronger. You must prove this by feats. If Batman has moved faster than her in comics throughout history then clearly she can't be faster. Doesn't matter what type of fallacious reasoning you try to use.
Being twice as massive is offset by being twice as strong. But vastly stronger beings in comics are not as fast or faster Gamora. Thor and Hercules is very skilled with thousands of years of experience and super reflexes and anticipation skills while being probably millions of times stronger and only a few more times massive. Theoretically, they should be thousands of times faster than Gamora. But comics don't portray that to be true. Thus writers are not using the logic that stronger equals faster. You can't force that reasoning on them either by disregarding character's feats and showings.
In a forum, venom couldn't even affect Superman in the slightest. Superman's organs are invulnerable too. Batman's armor has tanked beings vastly stronger than Gamora. She is not going to easily destroy it like that.
Originally posted by h1a8
Gamora would beat Batman straight up in a h2h fight because she is a lot stronger while being a peer in skill, speed, and agility. Not because she is faster.Now you are using question begging reasoning when you say that Gamora is faster in combat speed because she is stronger. You must prove this by feats. If Batman has moved faster than her in comics throughout history then clearly she can't be faster. Doesn't matter what type of fallacious reasoning you try to use.
Being twice as massive is offset by being twice as strong. But vastly stronger beings in comics are not as fast or faster Gamora. Thor and Hercules is very skilled with thousands of years of experience and super reflexes and anticipation skills while being probably millions of times stronger and only a few more times massive. Theoretically, they should be thousands of times faster than Gamora. But comics don't portray that to be true. Thus writers are not using the logic that stronger equals faster. You can't force that reasoning on them either by disregarding character's feats and showings.
In a forum, venom couldn't even affect Superman in the slightest. Superman's organs are invulnerable too. Batman's armor has tanked beings vastly stronger than Gamora. She is not going to easily destroy it like that.
I proved that she is stronger.
I proved that she was more agile
I proved that she was faster, and you agreed. Venom is just as fast as Spider Man, who happens to be faster than Batman, and also happens to be far slower than Gamora based on their latest confrontation.
Gamora trained to use her strength to be agile, and quick. Thor and others that you mentioned did not. This isn't up for discussion any longer. I've proven that Gamora is superior to Batman in every way.
Venom or the alien would affect Superman, just like it would be able to join with him. Batman has gotten his costume shredded by Killer Croc are you kidding me here? Gamora would beat Croc, and Bane at the same time.
Gamora would grab Batman by that silly cape, and strangle him with it. Did you actually see how easily she threw Ronan, and how far she threw him? Ronan is nearly twice as heavy as Batman. This isn't even a contest. Don't you see people calling you a troll?
Originally posted by tkitna
Stoic, don't let yourself become this invested. I've gotten to the point that if H1 gives his opinion on a thread, I just go with the opposite and its worked out for me almost 100% of the time. The guy lives in his own world. You cant be logical with people like that.
Shhhh... I'm huntin wabbits. 😄
You're right though.
Originally posted by Stoicyou didn't prove that she was more agile. Batman has crazy agility feats. You didn't prove that she was faster. She has no feats showing combat speed better than Batman's feats.
I proved that she is stronger.I proved that she was more agile
I proved that she was faster, and you agreed. Venom is just as fast as Spider Man, who happens to be faster than Batman, and also happens to be far slower than Gamora based on their latest confrontation.
Gamora trained to use her strength to be agile, and quick. Thor and others that you mentioned did not. This isn't up for discussion any longer. I've proven that Gamora is superior to Batman in every way.
Venom or the alien would affect Superman, just like it would be able to join with him. Batman has gotten his costume shredded by Killer Croc are you kidding me here? Gamora would beat Croc, and Bane at the same time.
Gamora would grab Batman by that silly cape, and strangle him with it. Did you actually see how easily she threw Ronan, and how far she threw him? Ronan is nearly twice as heavy as Batman. This isn't even a contest. Don't you see people calling you a troll?
Venom is not just as fast as Spider-man. Spidey is faster by feats and direct confrontation. Venom has nothing to do with this. Clearly she anticipated his attacks. Hardly no speed is needed according to you. Force is force. Force creates acceleration. More force equals more acceleration. More acceleration equals more speed. Thor isn't thousands of times faster like he should be.
You have characters in comics that can't lift a single ton able to move as fast as a bullet. That would take a lot of force to do. But writers aren't having characters become fast because of their strength.
Bottomline: most of you guys are trolling. I'm getting tired of it. We go by feats. We don't say trolling stuff like Gamora is faster because she is stronger when in fact Batman is shown to be as fast or faster in comics on a consistent basis. Obviously Gamora is not using her strength effectively since her feats are not beyond Batman's. The same reasoning why Thor isn't faster than Gamora.
Originally posted by tkitnaso you purposely troll the thread by supporting someone IGNORING ON PANEL EVIDENCE in favor of something that don't exist in the writers mind. And by flaming. This is report worthy
Stoic, don't let yourself become this invested. I've gotten to the point that if H1 gives his opinion on a thread, I just go with the opposite and its worked out for me almost 100% of the time. The guy lives in his own world. You cant be logical with people like that.
Originally posted by h1a8
so you purposely troll the thread by supporting someone IGNORING ON PANEL EVIDENCE in favor of something that don't exist in the writers mind. And by flaming. This is report worthy
tkitna isn't supporting you, so I don't see how you can legitimately accuse him of supporting someone that ignores on panel evidence.
Originally posted by h1a8
you didn't prove that she was more agile. Batman has crazy agility feats. You didn't prove that she was faster. She has no feats showing combat speed better than Batman's feats.Venom is not just as fast as Spider-man. Spidey is faster by feats and direct confrontation. Venom has nothing to do with this. Clearly she anticipated his attacks. Hardly no speed is needed according to you. Force is force. Force creates acceleration. More force equals more acceleration. More acceleration equals more speed. Thor isn't thousands of times faster like he should be.
You have characters in comics that can't lift a single ton able to move as fast as a bullet. That would take a lot of force to do. But writers aren't having characters become fast because of their strength.
Bottomline: most of you guys are trolling. I'm getting tired of it. We go by feats. We don't say trolling stuff like Gamora is faster because she is stronger when in fact Batman is shown to be as fast or faster in comics on a consistent basis. Obviously Gamora is not using her strength effectively since her feats are not beyond Batman's. The same reasoning why Thor isn't faster than Gamora.
I proved that she was, and she is. Thanos has incredible reaction feats for someone of his size. He is able to react to light speed attacks, and stop them in their tracks (which is on panel). He could not lay a glove on Gamora. Gamora is smaller, lighter, and vastly stronger than Batman in every way possible. This is why she is more agile than Batman, as well as the fact that with her vastly more powerful body, is able to propel herself with far more ease than Batman can. A vertical leaping test would be all that is needed to prove that she is faster. You can't be very smart if you aren't able to realize this.
Venom was stated on panel to be as fast as the Scarlet Spider, this does not mean that he is as agile. Speed and agility are two different things, but are both byproducts of strength. Unless of course you're saying that a feeble normal human can be move as fast as someone vastly stronger than they are, while having the same type of physique. So yeah it was stated on panel that Venom was just as fast as Spider Man. Batman is not as fast as Spider man which was what you admitted. Venom is not as fast as Gamora, which was seen on panel. If anyone is report worthy it's you.
Name one character in comics that can run as fast as a bullet, and aren't mutants, or tap into the speed force, or mystical/supernatural forces.
Bottom line: We have never seen Gamora in a comic with Batman, and although he is fast, she is faster because she has greater attributes that dictate her superiority over Batman. What you do, is troll, and have yet to show any solid proof that would make anyone with a brain in their heads believe that Batman is faster than she is. After all I have actually shown that she is faster than he is by providing solid evidence of it.
Venom, Spider Man, Scarlet Spider are all faster than Batman, and Gamora is faster than Venom based on what actually happened on panel. This is not an opinion like what you are doing, but solid on panel proof.
You believed that Batman needed swords to somehow make this even because you said that she would beat him without the swords. Why would she beat him? You said because he was weaker than she is, but then turn around and state that Batman has defeated characters vastly stronger than she is. So what was it that made you come to the conclusion that she would beat him? See how your deceit has come back to bite you is the ass?