Originally posted by NewGuy01
Happened to Maul twice, DMB.
To be fair the second time (against Vader) benefited Maul more than it hindered him, as he switched to Dual Saber wielding, which is another one of his favored forms.
Anyway as I've already mentioned hitting the Saber staff handle obviously can happen, just like disarming a person of his Single Saber can happen. But it's not some likely scenario (and certainly not some auto-win providing the wielder is also Masterful at wielding dual Sabers or even a Single Saber) given that Kenobi never cut Opress's Saber Staff in the 3/4 times he fought him.
Originally posted by NephthysBy RotS Kenobi was fully equipped to deal with Grievous, and he did. Even though Grievous is a lot more powerful than him, could attack faster than he could think, extremely unpredictable and can also practically download and adapt to an opponent's fighting style mid-fight, which is also fun.
Like that one time Grievous owned him? Similar I guess. More decapitation though.
So why would Bane have a better time, when he's less skilled than Kenobi and isn't on-par with Grievous either?
Grievous isn't more powerful than him though. He isn't powerful at all. He lacks Force power althogether. That's the difference.
Well, and Bane is also faster than Grievous is. You might as well be going "Well Sidious/Dooku/Yoda/Luke/Caedus/Krayt/Plagueis/Blah is stronger and faster than Kenobi too, just like Grievous therefore Kenobi wins."
More powerful physically, yes, he is.
No he isn't, lol.
I don't know why you're bringing up those comparisons. You listed three criteria for Bane and stated he was well suited to beating Kenobi, so I referenced someone who is more skilled than Bane and has him beaten in all three criteria, who Kenobi both defeated and was well-suited to defeating himself. So I'm wondering what's so great about Bane that he can perform better than Grievous in a duel.
Sidious, Yoda, Luke and Caedus outweigh Kenobi in every capacity, so them winning is a no-brainer. The Count is more skilled than Kenobi. Plagueis is a lot better physically overall and is likely comparable in raw skill, which should allow him to win. I'm not an expert on Krayt or Blah, though.
Originally posted by ILS
More powerful physically, yes, he is.No he isn't, lol.
I don't know why you're bringing up those comparisons. You listed three criteria for Bane and stated he was well suited to beating Kenobi, so I referenced someone who is more skilled than Bane and has him beaten in all three criteria, who Kenobi both defeated and was well-suited to defeating himself. So I'm wondering what's so great about Bane that he can perform better than Grievous in a duel.
Sidious, Yoda, Luke and Caedus outweigh Kenobi in every capacity, so them winning is a no-brainer. The Count is more skilled than Kenobi. Plagueis is a lot better physically overall and is likely comparable in raw skill, which should allow him to win. I'm not an expert on Krayt or Blah, though.
And Kenobi is able to compensate for Grievous' superior stats because he has the Force. The RotS novel makes it abundantly clear that even though GG's speed and strength exceeds Kenobi's, by falling fully into the Force Obi-Wan can defeat him. He doesn't have to be as fast as Grievous and isn't, because he has the Force. The Force allows him to predict Grievous' attacks so that Kenobi can intercept "three or four or eight of the general's strikes, the rest sizzling past him, his precise, minimal shifts of weight and stance slipping them by centimeters." Bane however, is more powerful than Kenobi by a lot. So that doesn't work.
I brought up those comparison's because Bane wins for very similar reasons that they do. Your comparison however is invalid, because Grievous is a non-force sensitive. So his superior speed and strength is negated by his inability to call upon the Force, a disadvantage Bane does not share. Bane is well suited to defeating Kenobi because he is stronger than him, faster than him, much more powerful than him and comparable in skill.
Bane would stomp Kenobi.
The only problem with your theory is Windu telling Kenobi that he, out of the entire Jedi Order, is the most likely to be able to defeat Grievous. Grievous has killed literally hundreds of Jedi and destroyed groups of them at a time, and their foresight didn't count for much in the process.
And Grievous' lack of Force sensitivity didn't stop him from defeating Ventress and being stated as being her superior by Dooku (someone who is a regular equal of Kenobi and contender to Anakin and Windu). Didn't stop him from having an even fight with Mace Windu with his movement hampered. Ect, ect.
Kenobi compensated for Grievous' stats where others couldn't, because he's the right kind of fighter to do so.
Bane can be stronger than Kenobi, hell he can be faster as well, which is a debate in of itself. But none of that mattered against Grievous, so really Bane isn't well suited to taking Kenobi out at all.
And Bane wouldn't stomp Obi-Wan in sabers, bro. He wouldn't even win.
Grievous has the power of computers. Being able to think in computer time, while not a complete substitute for the Force, does serve as adequate compensation, most of the time.
If somebody was smart and equipped Grievous with a ysalamiri, he'd have stomped almost everybody.
However, I've yet to see any feats for Bane that suggest he's a match for Kenobi or Anakin
In the event of the mismatches, Kenobi is adequate to stonewall Bane long enough for Anakin to dispatch Zannah and come help. In the event of a true match, Kenobi will probably dispatch Zannah before Anakin finishes with Bane.
Stop being a fanboy ILS.
By all available evidence, Bane is the absolute fastest Force User in the entire mythos, and he's tremendously skilled (his battle instincts and adaptability are among the best we've ever seen, as is his overall knowledge of the lightsaber, as evidenced by his ability to perfectly memorise all of Kas'im's techniques and being able to apply that knowledge to perfectly counter anything he could produce (with the exception of his Jar'kai)), one of the physically strongest Force Users we've come across, and equipped with all the other advantages that an elite Force User would possess in a lightsaber duel to boot. He's several leagues beyond the likes of Anakin, Obi-Wan, Grievous and Dooku, and if Zannah was indeed competetive against him (I haven't read the book myself so I will let Nephthys answer that), so is she.
Originally posted by ILS
The only problem with your theory is Windu telling Kenobi that he, out of the entire Jedi Order, is the most likely to be able to defeat Grievous. Grievous has killed literally hundreds of Jedi and destroyed groups of them at a time, and their foresight didn't count for much in the process.And Grievous' lack of Force sensitivity didn't stop him from defeating Ventress and being stated as being her superior by Dooku (someone who is a regular equal of Kenobi and contender to Anakin and Windu). Didn't stop him from having an even fight with Mace Windu with his movement hampered. Ect, ect.
Kenobi compensated for Grievous' stats where others couldn't, because he's the right kind of fighter to do so.
Bane can be stronger than Kenobi, hell he can be faster as well, which is a debate in of itself. But none of that mattered against Grievous, so really Bane isn't well suited to taking Kenobi out at all.
And Bane wouldn't stomp Obi-Wan in sabers, bro. He wouldn't even win.
Well tbh Windu was talking out of his ass at that point since Grievous had essentially beaten Kenobi in sabers 3 times by that time in TCW.
But you misunderstand, I'm not saying that Grievous is shit and that anyone with the Force can beat him. I'm not denying that he's good enough to beat Ventress. I'm not denying that he can fight Windu well. All I'm saying is that despite being faster and stronger than Kenobi he is only on or below Kenobi's level. Because he lacks the Force. That is a disadvantage. It just happens that Grievous' other abilities more than make up for that against most force users. And yes, Kenobi's Soresu might be good against Grievous especially. So Grievous is a physically superior combatant, but is brought down to Kenobi's level because he lacks the Force. Bane is a physically superior combatant and has no such hindrance.
I'm pretty sure Filoni has flat out said that GG is hindered by his lack of force powers, so this isn't just my opinion.
Bane is faster than Kenobi can keep up with. He'd go down very fast. Just like he would against Sidious or Yoda or Bandon.
Originally posted by appletonia
He's several leagues beyond the likes of Anakin, Obi-Wan, Grievous and Dooku, and if Zannah was indeed competetive against him (I haven't read the book myself so I will let Nephthys answer that), so is she.
Judge for yourself:
"Zannah expected Bane to come at her aggressively, but even so she was caught off guard by the ferociousness of his attack.
He opened with a series of two-handed overhead chops, using his great height to bring his blade hacking down at her from above. She easily blocked each blow, but the momentum of the crushing impact caused her to stagger back, throwing her off balance.
She recovered quickly, however, spinning out of the way when he followed up with a low, looping swipe meant to hew her off at the knees. She retaliated with a quick jab with the tip of one of her blades toward Bane's face, but he ducked his head to the side and came back with a wide-arcing, single-handed slash at chest level.
Zannah intercepted his blade with one of her own, angling her weapon so that the momentum of Bane's attack was redirected downward, sending the tip of his lightsaber into the dirt. This should have exposed him to a counterthrust, but he was already reacting to her move, driving his entire body forward into Zannah's before she could bring her weapon up.
His weight slammed into her, knocking her back as Bane snapped his neck forward. Zannah threw her head back just in time, and the head-butt that would have smashed her face glanced off her chin instead.
Scrambling to stay on her feet, Zannah raised her weapon back up, spinning the handle so that the twirling blades formed a defensive wall that repelled Bane's next half a dozen blows.
During her years under Bane, they had sparred hundreds of times. During these sessions she had always known he was keeping something in reserve for the day they would inevitably fight for real. Only now did she realize just how much he had been holding back.
He was faster than she could ever have imagined, and he was using new sequences and unfamiliar moves he had never revealed during their practice sessions. But somehow she had survived the initial flurry, and now she knew what to expect.
The next exchange had a more familiar feel. Bane pressed the action with a devastating, complex combination of attacks, but Zannah was able to intercept, parry, or deflect each one. Her defensive style was simple, but performed correctly it was nearly impenetrable.
Recognizing this, Bane backed off and changed tactics. Instead of a savage, relentless pressure meant to overwhelm her, he settled into a pattern of feints and quick thrusts, probing and prodding her defenses in search of a weakness as the two of them settled in for a long battle of attrition.
Zannah had fought him once before, back when he was still encased in his orbalisk armor. She remembered it had been like battling a force of nature: the chitinous parasites covering his entire body had been impervious to lightsaber attacks, allowing him to attack with pure animal rage. She had survived that encounter only by convincing Bane she hadn't betrayed him, and in the end he had let her live.
His style back then had been brutish and simple, though undeniably effective. Now, however, his technique was more advanced. Unable to simply bully his way heedlessly forward, he had developed an unpredictable, seemingly random style. Each time she thought she could anticipate where the next attack was coming from, he changed tactics, disrupting the rhythm of the battle and causing her to give ground.
She was being driven back in a slow retreat, and she realized he was herding her toward the shuttles, hoping to pin her against the metal hull with no place to go. Zannah was content to play along, taking quick, careful steps backward over the soft, sandy terrain as she began to gather her power.
The key was subtlety. She couldn't let Bane sense what she was doing or he would launch into another wild flurry of attacks, forcing her to focus all her energy on keeping him at bay. She had to give him the illusion he was controlling the action, when in fact she was only a few seconds away from unleashing a burst of dark side sorcery that would rip his mind apart.
Bane circled wide trying to come in on her left flank. Zannah simply altered the angle of her retreat, taking several more steps backward to keep him at a safe distance as she swatted away a few token slashes and strikes.
With her attention split between the enemy in front of her and the Sith spell she was preparing to cast Zannah didn't notice how close she was to the freshly dug graves. Her heel caught on the uneven ground as she backed up, throwing her off balance as she fell awkwardly to the ground and landed on her back.
Bane was on her in an instant, his lightsaber slashing viciously, his heavy boots kicking and stomping at her prone body. Zannah thrashed and twisted on the ground, her lightsaber flailing desperately to parry Bane's blade. She felt a sharp crack as the toe of his boot caught her in the ribs, but she rolled with the impact and managed to end up back on her feet.
Her vision was blurred with stars, pain shooting through her left side with each gasp as she tried to catch her breath. Bane didn't let up, coming at her with a frenetic assault. The next few seconds were a blur as Zannah relied purely on instincts honed over twenty years to parry the wave of blows, miraculously keeping him from landing a lethal strike.
Zannah threw herself into a back handspring, flipping head over heels three times in quick succession just to put some space between her and Bane. Before the fourth one she suddenly stopped and went into a crouch, thrusting forward with her lightsaber like a spear to impale her opponent as he charged after her in pursuit: only Bane wasn't there.
Anticipating her move, he had stopped several meters away."
She's able to deal with his speed without much issue, nullify his strength when she starts up her defense and Bane has to indirectly effect her to get through her defensive wall. Even when on the ground and wounded she is able to block all his attacks and disengage successfully. Theres not the great gap between them that people think there is.
Well tbh Windu was talking out of his ass at that point since Grievous had essentially beaten Kenobi in sabers 3 times by that time in TCW.But you misunderstand, I'm not saying that Grievous is shit and that anyone with the Force can beat him. I'm not denying that he's good enough to beat Ventress. I'm not denying that he can fight Windu well. All I'm saying is that despite being faster and stronger than Kenobi he is only on or below Kenobi's level. Because he lacks the Force. That is a disadvantage. It just happens that Grievous' other abilities more than make up for that against most force users. And yes, Kenobi's Soresu might be good against Grievous especially. So Grievous is a physically superior combatant, but is brought down to Kenobi's level because he lacks the Force. Bane is a physically superior combatant and has no such hindrance.
I'm pretty sure Filoni has flat out said that GG is hindered by his lack of force powers, so this isn't just my opinion.
Bane is faster than Kenobi can keep up with. He'd go down very fast. Just like he would against Sidious or Yoda or Bandon.
Eh, Filoni was talking out of his ass. He basically said that, in his opinion, Grievous' success is derived from him spinning his lightsabers in a scary manner and that any Force sensitive who can get over the scare factor can beat him. I think anyone who has read into the character knows his form of combat is a little more advanced than being a scary buzzsaw.....
Bane isn't faster than Kenobi can keep up with, brobeans. But I don't think we're going to come to a resolution on that any time soon.