Originally posted by Stigma
Um, I do. Do you?eclipse = surpass
What I meant is that, in a fight, Sidious eclipses Vitiate, obviously.
Besides, the fact that I believe Sidious indeed does eclipse Vitiate in the force does not even have a bearing on the original point.
Your assumption is a conjecture. Both of us do not know what exactly would happen in this hypothetical confrontation but I am being as realistic as possible based on available evidence.
If their is an ancient being who can eliminate Sidious in a confrontation, Vitiate is a realistic candidate.
Originally posted by Stigma
The realistic assessment has been already presented. In a nutshell: in the force, you can argue either way. In a duel, Sidious stomps.
Again, you are assuming that Vitiate is a Kolar or Fisto in combat prowess. This is not the case.
No matter what, Sidious is not stomping in this contest. In-fact, this will be a contest from which Sidious would want to flee or avoid if he can.
Originally posted by Stigma
I assume they start at a reasonable distance, as in, not miles away from each other.
Even better for Vitiate.
Originally posted by Stigma
Well, I hate to break it you but Vitiate was never blitzed because...wait for it.... he never fought someone in Sidious's speed category.Also, what competent swordsmen? Exile disarmed him, and he hugged HoT’s lightsaber…
Let's save Vitiate the embarrassment (for later) and move on to the next point.
How do you know about Sidious's superiority in the speed factor? What if HoT is as fast as Sidious? Both have blitz kills under their belt against competent foes and HoT even have history of
outdueling some of the most competent lightsaber combatants in galactic history.
As for the Exile, she managed to disarm Vitiate due to element of surprise. She was far away in position when she telepathically send her lightsaber towards Vitiate's position in an attempt to prevent Revan's death. She succeeded but Vitiate was focused on Revan at this point, did not concentrate on her actions.
As for the Hot, you make it sound like as if HoT just blitzed Vitiate, you are overlooking the complete picture of the confrontation. They stood inches apart from each other earlier and the blitz still could not be achieved. Vitiate is just that fast.
Also, shit happens sometimes, and Vitiate made an error of judgment which cost him an avatar against HoT. However, he is not prone to make error of judgments commonly since he is a brilliant tactician and his combat tactic have proven time and again to be the most effective against opponents irrespective of popular belief to the contrary.
In this confrontation, we are not assuming circumstances now or are we?
Originally posted by Stigma
To you, perhaps. And it is perfectly fine by me.
Many agree with me, though, that Sidious is a superior force-user.
I can just as easily assert that Cat > Sidious but people may ask for proof. Understand?
I asked you to prove Sidious's superiority in this respect and you have yet to. No, I am not interested in accolades that predate Vitiate's introduction to the Legends; give me solid proof of Sidious's supposed superiority over Vitiate as of TPM. I assure you that you cannot, not even when you consider DE incarnation.
So lets leave this part and settle on the realization that Vitiate can eliminate Sidious with his powers, he is just that strong and dangerous.
Originally posted by Stigma
I'm sure Vitiate will object to the idea of a lightsaber through his skull... Nevertheless, to put it simply, Vitiate can run but he cannot hide.
Sidious is demonstrably faster and vastly more skilled in saber department. Vitiate cannot do much here, really.
Again, you cannot assert Sidious's superiority in speed with certainty. While Vitiate does not have blitz feats to demonstrate his speed, their are indications that he is extremely fast with examples, that he was able to soundly contend with Revan and HoT, both of whom are extremely fast contrary to the misinformed beliefs otherwise. If Revan does not impress you, HoT should since he have ample showings of his enormous competence and speed.
Originally posted by Stigma
By your standards Sidious has super-powers too.
Sidious have, but Vitiate have advantage in defensive aspects in comparison. Hint: corporeal immorality (A condition that Plagueis hoped to achieve with Midichlorian-manipulation to make himself virtually unstoppable). It is likely that Sidious acted against Plagueis before the latter would achieve this condition or else chances of victory would have significantly reduced for him.
Originally posted by Stigma
Edited it. 😉English is not even my second language so I need to think though how express my thoughts properly. Conditionals are not my forte, apparently. Yet, “when” fits much better in that sentence.
No issue.
Though, if is a factor here.
Originally posted by Stigma
Luck does not have anything to do with it.Vitiate will not overwhelm someone who has at the very least comparable force powers. On the other hand, he will fall in a lightsaber battle to someone who is massively more skilled and faster than him.
Spoiler:
hint: that someone is Sidious
Luck is not irrelevant here. Vitiate posits major challenge to Sidious and this is a realistic evaluation. If their was evidence to the contrary, I would have considered but I am mostly dealing with conjectures from the opposition.
Again, it is logical fallacy to assume that Vitiate cannot overwhelm Sidious with his powers. Vitiate certainly can.
What would Sidious do if his mind is being pressured by incredibly overwhelming telepathic assault and/or his defenses may give away at any moment against the incredibly potent lightning barrage that would burn him to charred corpse and/or some sorcery which Sidious have no knowledge about how to contend with?
I assure you that this is a fight that Sidious would not want to avoid. Sidious was hesitant to challenge Plagueis in a fair manner, Vitiate is even a greater threat then Plagueis.
I have covered the rest.
Again, I do not rule out the possibility of a victory with a lightsaber hit on part of Sidious (just being rational) but I am not going to assume that this can be easily accomplished against a foe that is Vitiate (just being realistic).
Sidious doesn't have many contenders in Star Wars so I really do not get the insecurity of Sidious's fans to be honest. I am a fan of Sidious myself but some fans of this character really downplay the appeal of this character for my types.
Lets just settle with the assumption that both can win but Sidious needs a bit of luck here.