TPM Sidious vs. Vitiate

Started by carthage5 pages
carthage PLEASE PROTECT ME STONES

It wasn't a duel he had to gather power and take them out with his force abilities. A duel would be if e fought them with his lightsaber, but we all know how shit he is with a saber. None of them were impressive either in terms of feats, even Maul could probably kill them without much difficulty

Sinious Yo Da Best
Originally posted by carthage
It wasn't a duel he had to gather power and take them out with his force abilities. A duel would be if e fought them with his lightsaber, but we all know how shit he is with a saber.

Its still a stomp though.

None of them were impressive either in terms of feats, even Maul could probably kill them without much difficulty

lol

AncientPower The Chosen One

Originally posted by Sinious
I didnt argue against anything what you said here did I?

which is exactly what Vitiate did.

Yet you stated that Vitiate is superior in combat because of his ability to do so. Yet both of the Sith you used as an example have done the same and more.

Angelalex242 Senior Member

The biggest thing Sidious has against him here is that he is not fully matured yet as a Sith. He jumps in power between now and ROTS, jumps again to ROTJ, and jumps to his zenith in DE.

But Palpatine's relative inexperience here isn't nearly enough for Vitiate to take advantage, as Vitiate is, at best, his equal in the force (mostly due to Sidious not reaching his full potential yet...kinda like the Anakin we see is NOTHING like Anakin's full potential...), but Vitiate's still vastly inferior with a saber.

So in the unlikely event Vitiate can stalemate an immature Sidious in the Force, he'll still get killed in the lightsaber duel.

Sinious Yo Da Best
Originally posted by AncientPower
Yet you stated that Vitiate is superior in combat because of his ability to do so. Yet both of the Sith you used as an example have done the same and more.

Neither of them could dominate the jedi strike team as easily as Vitiate did with their force powers only imo.

AncientPower The Chosen One

Caedus telekinetically ragdolled the ambush team with little sign of effort on his behalf.

Nephthys The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

Which ambush team?

AncientPower The Chosen One

Kyle and co.

Nephthys The Gr8est!!!!!!!!

But.... he didn't ragdoll them.

AncientPower The Chosen One

He nearly killed Kyle with a Force Pull.

FreshestSlice Eternal Commander

Originally posted by Sinious
Neither of them could dominate the jedi strike team as easily as Vitiate did with their force powers only imo.

Are you going to establish power levels for them then?

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by AncientPower
No Vitiate is not a Kolar, Fisto or Tiin in combat, he has no feats with a lightsaber that remotely compare to any of them nor any speed feats.

Emperor did not take interest in martial aspects of combat but he still proved to be among the most formidable combatants to have ever existed, and the likes of Kolar, Fisto and Tinn are mere jokes in comparison.

As for the speed factor, Emperor successfully contended with some of the fastest and most competent warriors of the mythos. Your point is moot by virtue of this evidence alone.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Sidious takes this. If Revan can casually bat aside Vitiate's lightning with his saber then Sidious will do so easily (or dodge it). Unlike Revan, Sidious will never be stupid enough to try and redirect a fully charged Force Storm (and even presuming he did he wouldn't get charred). Vitiate is also exceedingly arrogant (getting in close to finish Revan when he could have easily vaporized him, charging at the HoT even when he was deflecting his lightning). Sidious can take advantage of this and even feign weakness (as he did with Starkiller) to lure Vitiate in close and then take him down before he can react.

Revan's lightsaber-augmented defenses were deemed sufficient for stopping limited lightning casts but not the lightning storm. Revan actually evaluated his options when Emperor unleashed an entire lightning storm on him and lightsaber was not an option that would prove effective at stopping a power of such magnitude per his assessment. And Revan would have been reduced to ash if T3-M4 had not stopped Emperor during the attack. Once the defenses are overwhelmed, the body beneath the layers of defenses, is absolutely vulnerable and lightning burns. Emperor's lightning was hot enough to superheat metal and melt individuals.

Sidious, may actually, make the mistake of using his lightsaber for stopping a lightning storm should the combat come down to this level and end up disarmed, trapped and eventually dead. Sidious is known for his arrogance.

Your point of feigning weakness is interesting though, but Emperor may simply see through the façade because he is shown to be highly aware of his surroundings and have lot of experience in evaluating potential threats and tricks of his opponents, he did learn from his experiences and developed new counter-measures accordingly. If Emperor somehow is fooled by Sidious's weakness façade and closes the gap, then Sidious may attempt a lightsaber score for victory but success is still not guaranteed since HoT and Vitiate stood inches apart in a confrontation with the latter having his lightsaber ignited and ready for strike and blitz was still not possible, Emperor is just that fast; nonetheless, good tactic to gain advantage on part of Sidious but outcome remains uncertain.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The Jedi Strike Team was unprepared for his sheer strength, just like Revan, Scourge and Surik were. They assumed quite arrogantly that Vitiate wasn't powerful enough to take them all and showed a clear lack of a defensive strategy.

And your assumption is based upon? I never see the opposition tiring from inventing new unsubstantiated theories. Braga assembled some of the best Jedi to confront Emperor, apparently he was not taking Emperor lightly and neither were other Jedi. The Jedi were well-aware of Emperor's reputation and that many Jedi had perished at his hands. Braga was confident that some of the best Jedi would be enough for the task but he found out the reality the hard way.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Darth Caedus was ambushed by Battle Master Katarn's team and he still effortlessly Force stomped them.

Darth Plagueis was even moreso dominant against Maladian Assassins whilst severely injured and not to mention an army of warriors.

Vitiate is not alone in dominating very powerful opponents.


Caedus's confrontation was mostly lightsaber duel oriented and he is nowhere close to Emperor's effectiveness. Caedus did use his powers against the Jedi frequently to keep them under pressure but he gained advantage only when he found a GAG speeder positioning itself nearby and pulled it down towards the Jedi, injuring them in the process. Katarn, at this moment, ended up impaled by Caedus since the speeder send him packing directly towards the Sith Lord after hitting him and he was effectively neutralized in this manner. The 3 remaining Jedi attempted to tackle Caedus but they proved to be lacking in power and troops nearby began to interfere as well, complicating the situation of the Jedi further since Caedus found the opportunity to redirect the incoming bolts towards the Jedi with great precision, knocking out one more Jedi in this manner. 2 remained including Horn who was now utterly outmatched.

The entire fight was lengthy.

Compare this to Emperor's showing on the Space Station and their is a difference of day and night between the effectiveness and power of the two. Not to forget that Emperor faced some of the most formidable Jedi to have ever existed.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Now regardless I do believe Vitiate, Caedus and Plagueis to be very close in power to one another.

Emperor is better then both, significantly I may add. Your argument is effectively dismantled. Next time, do not try this bullshit.

Originally posted by carthage
Plagueis or Caedus would LOLSTOMP that strike team in a duel.

Don't be ridiculous.

Originally posted by carthage
It wasn't a duel he had to gather power and take them out with his force abilities. A duel would be if e fought them with his lightsaber, but we all know how shit he is with a saber. None of them were impressive either in terms of feats, even Maul could probably kill them without much difficulty

It wasn't much of a duel because Emperor is just that powerful and dominant.

If Luke can kill an opponent with a single quester, he will simply do so. No need to bother with the specifics.

And the rest of your statement is asinine. Maul won't be able to stop HoT or Braga, let alone the entire Strike Team.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yet you stated that Vitiate is superior in combat because of his ability to do so. Yet both of the Sith you used as an example have done the same and more.

They haven't.

Did you ever see assassins getting close to Emperor and living to tell the tale?

And Caedus's performance against the Strike Team turned out be far less impressive then it have been usually hyped to be by the fans of the referred character. I am really disappointed.

AncientPower The Chosen One

Revan doesn't have top tier speed feats like Fisto does nor does Hero of Tython. Vitiate is lacking completely in the areas of lightsaber combat and force augmentation. He is a scholar, he always has been, he always will be.

You're not taking into account the circumstances of the fight or how much he dominated them with his Force displays. Infact as soon as the Jedi saw what happened to Katarn they all but gave up. Their attempt to get the jump on him failed miserably to.

Oh and your 'dismantling' is literally just debating, stick to quote dumping because arrogance doesn't suit you.

Emperor Vitiate is not significantly more powerful by any means, Caedus has displayed far greater esoteric knowledge than even Luke Skywalker and is already stated to be much more powerful than Darth Vader.

Plagueis completely outmatches him in telekinesis, healing, augmentation and even rituals. Read the Plagueis novel because it is made indirectly but abundantly clear that Plagueis is the strongest Sith yet.

The Maladian Assassins I refer to were one of the deadliest cults ever and despite being literally half alive Plagueis literally tore them to pieces with his telekinetic power.

It is extremely impressive and if you take any context into account then you'll see how heavily circumstances were in the Jedi's favor.

Oh and I'm not a fan at all so don't start an imbecilic fanboyism argument.

Selenial I Choose Violence

Your point is moot AP. Plageuis have not been hyped in encyclopedic mediums with the express quote that he is the strongest. The emperor have slayed many mooks and walked Into a lightsaber, he is surely a competent warrior.

Stigma Herald of the Judgement

Originally posted by Selenial
Your point is moot AP. Plageuis have not been hyped in encyclopedic mediums with the express quote that he is the strongest. The emperor have slayed many mooks and walked Into a lightsaber, he is surely a competent warrior.

😂

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by AncientPower
Revan doesn't have top tier speed feats like Fisto does nor does Hero of Tython. Vitiate is lacking completely in the areas of lightsaber combat and force augmentation. He is a scholar, he always has been, he always will be.

No shit.

Scourge is explicitly stated to be an EXPERT swordsman, able to move at blinding speeds, and is known to dodge dueling attacks with just his physical movements, but still found himself outmatched by an opponent who does not have comparable hype in speed (i.e. Nyriss). Notice where I am getting with this?

You evaluate speed not just with raw statements but performance in combat situations. Revan have found himself in many situations where speed would have mattered and he have history of outdueling competent warriors. Statements wise, he is stated to have lightning-fast reactions (in one paragraph) and instantaneous reactions (in another paragraph). His entire confrontation with Emperor ended in few seconds and a lot took place in such short span.

As for HoT, he have history of outright blitzing Sith Warriors and outdueling some of the most competent duelists in history. He is just that fast and capable.

Your arguments are baseless again which isn't surprising.

Originally posted by AncientPower
You're not taking into account the circumstances of the fight or how much he dominated them with his Force displays. Infact as soon as the Jedi saw what happened to Katarn they all but gave up. Their attempt to get the jump on him failed miserably to.

I have read the entire fight just a while back and I can easily expose your bias. Don't tempt me.

I have already provided a summary. Read it.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Oh and your 'dismantling' is literally just debating, stick to quote dumping because arrogance doesn't suit you.

No, I am exposing your lies and disinformation. I have pointed out to you before that you should make a habit of double-checking information before you participate in a debate. You have not heeded that advice yet.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Emperor Vitiate is not significantly more powerful by any means, Caedus has displayed far greater esoteric knowledge than even Luke Skywalker and is already stated to be much more powerful than Darth Vader.

You think that your subjectivity is credible? Emperor is known to have mastered the dark side to its highest degree officially and he is likely to have knowledge and command of lot of stuff that we have not seen him demonstrating. Still, Emperor have feats that outstrip Caedus's by miles but no one can compete with a fan's subjectivity. Emperor achieved corporeal immortality, altered the environment of an entire planet (i.e. Dromund Kaas), created a powerful nexus of the dark side (on Dromund Kaas), literally broke powerful Jedi with telepathic abilities during combat situations, even destroyed the minds of some Jedi with telepathic abilities, switched bodies (Voices), developed alternate dark personas in thousands of individuals (Children) that he planted across the galaxy to do his bidding, drained many individuals simultaneously to increase his power on consistent basis, conducted unknown sorcery related experiments on frequent basis, overshadowed and humbled millions of Sith, soundly defeated some of the most powerful Jedi of the mythos, dominated Strike Teams of powerful opponents on short notice, eliminated rebellious Dark Council members by himself several times, disintegrated tough droids, collapsed structures, and gave Yoda-Ventress treatment to Sith at times. Holistically, Emperor is far more tested then Caedus in combat situations and also much more accomplished and dominant in comparison, the disparity between the power of the two is obvious. Caedus have his great showings but you are hyping him way beyond he seems to be.

Don't tempt me to start a critical evaluation of Caedus, this won't end well for you. Caedus is well-respected and you should not try to jeopardize this image with your deceptions.

Also, show me the evidence of Caedus being stated to be much more powerful then Vader.

Originally posted by AncientPower
The Maladian Assassins I refer to were one of the deadliest cults ever and despite being literally half alive Plagueis literally tore them to pieces with his telekinetic power.

Blah blah

Republic Havok Squad is stated to be capable of taking down even Sith, they are that heavily trained, armed and armored.

Didn't stop Malgus from having a field day with them.

Originally posted by AncientPower
It is extremely impressive and if you take any context into account then you'll see how heavily circumstances were in the Jedi's favor.

I have read about it. And I am disappointed by the wank that you gave it.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Plagueis completely outmatches him in telekinesis, healing, augmentation and even rituals. Read the Plagueis novel because it is made indirectly but abundantly clear that Plagueis is the strongest Sith yet.

Plagueis have some decent showings but he isn't on level of Emperor.

Emperor achieved corporeal immortality that Plagueis craved for. A minor hint.

Though, Plagueis > Caedus as well. I give you this.

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by Selenial
Your point is moot AP. Plageuis have not been hyped in encyclopedic mediums with the express quote that he is the strongest. The emperor have slayed many mooks and walked Into a lightsaber, he is surely a competent warrior.

I am sorry that your KoTOR II champions turned out be inadequate in comparison to (real) champions of the TOR era. Must've hit the nerve.

Selenial I Choose Violence
You think that your subjectivity is credible?

My god this is actually beautiful.

Selenial I Choose Violence
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am sorry that your KoTOR II champions turned out be inadequate in comparison to (real) champions of the TOR era. Must've hit the nerve.

What? I'm genuinely confused. 😕

S_W_LeGenD Senior Member

Originally posted by Selenial
What? I'm genuinely confused. 😕

Your mocks are lame.

Originally posted by Sinious
I didnt argue against anything what you said here did I?

Let me give you a hint of the so-called stomping of Caedus. The description of the battle spanned several pages in the novel, it was so short.

Originally posted by Sinious
which is exactly what Vitiate did.

Emperor actually stomped. And some of the best of the Jedi order.