Originally posted by psmith81992
100% certain. Everything on the planet was destroyed. There was no color to it either, everything was brown. Millions died, the force ceased to exist.
Ok, I'll have to double check.
Regarding Byss, Sidious transformed Byss into "one of the strongest dark side sites in the galaxy" {"Byss and the Deep Core"} with his own hellish energies. An approximate timeframe for that feat isn't given {it's said the process was "slow"} but I think it's safe to assume it took longer than a week or however long was required for Vitiate to ravage Nathema.
At the same time, to FreshestSlice's point, a shitton of full-fledged Sith Lords were involved in that. Their overall point is that Sidious is more or less a self-made man whereas Vitiate had a lot of metaphysical help.
As a staunch Republican, you should admire how much more of a baller that makes Sidious. uhuh
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Also, you haven't given your opinion beyond attacking S66. I'd be interested to read what you have to say, Beefy.
I gave my opinion in the bold text. The whole post is ludicrous. While I'm not yet contending Vitiate is DE Sidious' equal (we'll see eventually), to suggest there's a wide gap is ridiculous. And then adding a caveat such as "with aid", makes the argument even worse. That's like me saying Sidious sucks because he got shot in the back by Han "I'm old enough to do Viagra commercials" Solo.
At the same time, to FreshestSlice's point, a shitton of full-fledged Sith Lords were involved in that. Their overall point is that Sidious is more or less a self-made man whereas Vitiate had a lot of metaphysical help.
Originally posted by psmith81992
I gave my opinion in the bold text. The whole post is ludicrous. While I'm not yet contending Vitiate is DE Sidious' equal (we'll see eventually), to suggest there's a wide gap is ridiculous.
So you're saying Vitiate is underrated because S66 says there's a wide gap between him and DE!Sidious?
What about the flipside: LeGenD routinely claims that Vitiate is on par with or superior to the Mortis Anchorites and Abeloth.
Is it a wash?
Originally posted by psmith81992
And then adding a caveat such as "with aid", makes the argument even worse.
Are you saying it's unreasonable to be more impressed with a Sith Lord who has achieved great things with much less time and external aid than a Sith Lord who has achieved only comparable things with much more time and much more external aid?
Originally posted by psmith81992
That's like me saying Sidious sucks because he got shot in the back by Han "I'm old enough to do Viagra commercials" Solo.
Han was in his early 40s at the time he shot Sidious in the back and you have in fact made that exact argument. 😐
Originally posted by psmith81992
Not really, because they both were trying to do different things. Not a valid comparison.
Two individuals don't have to be attempting the exact same task for a third individual to determine which is more impressive.
Let's say, by the end of the night, you manage to pin a grizzly bear whereas I only succeed in tying my shoelaces, can I then say that your achievement can't be said to be more impressive than mine since we weren't attempting the same thing?
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
My opinion on the subject is that he's both. I can't turn around and say he's a universally hated character based on the opinions of some posters, however many also do indeed believe him to be a fairly weak feeb, which is just as egregious as putting him on par with The Son.
So you're saying Vitiate is underrated because S66 says there's a wide gap between him and DE!Sidious?
What about the flipside: LeGenD routinely claims that Vitiate is on par with or superior to the Mortis Anchorites and Abeloth.
Are you saying it's unreasonable to be more impressed with a Sith Lord who has achieved great things with much less time and external aid than a Sith Lord who has achieved only comparable things with much more time and much more external aid?
Han was in his early 40s at the time he shot Sidious in the back and you have in fact made that exact argument.
Let's say, by the end of the night, you manage to pin a grizzly bear whereas I only succeed in tying my shoelaces, can I then say that your achievement can't be said to be more impressive than mine since we weren't attempting the same thing?
Originally posted by psmith81992
No, i'm saying he isn't overrated and the gap that S66 pretends is there isn't.
He's not the only one to perceive a gap {in either direction}.
Originally posted by psmith81992
I never saw that. That's dumb.
He's as persistent and vocal with that opinion as S66 is with his.
Originally posted by psmith81992
What does "impressed" have to do with anything? And what external aid? The fact that guy X achieves different results through rituals? I'm impressed with how many force users it's taking to take Vitiate down. I haven't said he's superior to DE Sidious yet. But the gap is very narrow.
People add the caveat about Vitiate because Vitiate has historically relied more on rituals and assistance to achieve his ends than Sidious is known to have done.
To further clarify: I think it's perfectly valid to dock Vitiate {or any character} points for use of preparation and assistance when another character comes along and does something of comparable magnitude without it. If you pick up an object that requires me to enlist aid in lifting, that's more impressive.
Originally posted by psmith81992
If I made that argument, it was in response to a stupid argument.
And perhaps S66's "stupid argument" {your words} is simply a demonstration of the same tactic; a response to the "stupid arguments" of people like LeGenD?
Originally posted by psmith81992
One sith lord killed millions of people, tore the force from the planet, and became immortal in the process.. All in a span of 10 days. The other one spent decades "draining" the citizens of byss (we don't really know the properties of that drain). Even if Sidious didn't use a ritual, I find Vitiate's ritual more impressive.
"Decades" is never actually given. And the first Sith Lord's ritual required the participation of 8 thousand Sith Lords. That's not a minor detail.
The only one who really seems to be doing that is Carthage (God bless his soul.) others, such as ILS (maybe,) Angel, Stigma, Selenial, etc. are a different story. Stigma does troll, but that's mostly with Bane, not Vitiate. Then there's the culprit that actually brings great merit (S66,) though I ultimately disagree with his conclusions. You are actually somewhat fair to Tenebrae.
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
The only one who really seems to be doing that is Carthage (God bless his soul.) others, such as ILS (maybe,) Angel, Stigma, Selenial, etc. are a different story. Stigma does troll, but that's mostly with Bane, not Vitiate. Then there's the culprit that actually brings some merit (S66,) though I ultimately disagree with his conclusions. You are actually somewhat fair to Tenebrae.
You talking to FS or me?
He's not the only one to perceive a gap {in either direction}.
People add the caveat about Vitiate because Vitiate has historically relied more on rituals and assistance to achieve his ends than Sidious is known to have done.To further clarify: I think it's perfectly valid to dock Vitiate {or any character} points for use of preparation and assistance when another character comes along and does something of comparable magnitude without it. If you pick up an object that requires me to enlist aid in lifting, that's more impressive.
And perhaps S66's "stupid argument" {your words} is simply a demonstration of the same tactic; a response to the "stupid arguments" of people like LeGenD?
Decades" is never actually given. And the first Sith Lord's ritual required the participation of 8 thousand Sith Lords. That's not a minor detail.