Who can stop 2 DE Sidiouses?

Started by Angelalex2426 pages

Do remember this is the EU forum, so trying to play the 'But Legends isn't canon anymore!' card is useless. Particularly since the thread is about Dark Empire Sidious to begin with.

He must be measured within the power levels of the comic he comes from, and given full credit.

This was originally posted here and shows my point quite well. http://www.killermovies.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-531344-fotj-luke-skywalker-vs-de-darth-sidious.html

"You mean all those Force abilities Sidious can purportedly utilize as well, given the canonical statement in the Dark Empire Sourcebook that posits Sidious can use nearly every power, while simultaneously granting him the latitude to pull any newly-concocted application of the Force that he desires out of his anal cavity? Not to mention the line in that very same sourcebook that affirms the ambiguous genetic manipulation of Palpatine's clone bodies--distinct from Carnor Jax's sabotage (in case there is any confusion).

Oh my. When will you people learn to understand the concept of analyzing the source material.

The DE sourcebook was written when almost no EU material existed. The stuff released so far was (afaik) Timothy Zahns Thrawn trilogy, and the DE comics themselves. We neither had ancient Sith, nor Sith magic, nor fancy computer game heroes / villains and force powers established in the KotoR / Jedi Knight games.

At that point in time, Sidious - besides Vader - was the only Sith Lord known. So - obviously - he was capable of using all Dark Side powers, as there was nothing in that department existing outside of his persona. Sidious was the embodyment of the Dark Side. with everyone else just being his minions.

You belive that still is valid after the release of tons and tons of additional force material, including ritual based Sith magic and other stuff? If that's the case, you may want to have a look at the TOTJ Sourcebook which "canonically" claims that Freedon Nadd can use every light side and dark side power presented in that piece of literature, including force storms.

So Nadd > Sidious?"

DE Sidious is just fundamentally problematic.

DE Sidious is strong, but hes not top 5 strong.

Originally posted by Board Walker
DE Sidious is strong, but hes not top 5 strong.

And Revan is, right?

Lol. DE Sidious is firmly #2 in the mythos. (Not including Mortis or Bedlam types)

Originally posted by Board Walker
DE Sidious is strong, but hes not top 5 strong.

Who is top 5?

Revan, Revan, Revan, Nihilus, and Revan.

Originally posted by Angelalex242
Lol. DE Sidious is firmly #2 in the mythos. (Not including Mortis or Bedlam types)

To name a few of the many people above DE Sidious there is Luke, Revan, Nihilus, and Vitiate.

You were right 1 time in 4. (Luke.)

DE sidious is pretty weak in terms of combat, bested by DE era luke, Caedus far surpassed DE Sidious.

I do hope you're just trolling.

No he's not that is the problem with a lot of the source books / comics. They end up with a A>B>C>A type of issue. (Based on raw power not strengths and weaknesses.) DE Luke > DE Sidious. But we also know from the books that Caedus is almost maybe 85-90% Luke's level in the books much later when Luke is more powerful. So you end up with Caedus and Sidious being basically equal. However if you throw out what DE says and the early source books then DE Sidious > DE Luke (for time period anyway). Then it is internally consistent and its possible for Sidious > Caedus.

Put in other words the problem with how Sidious is described in DE is as follows:
Sidious is basically declared to be the most powerful Sith ever in DE and DE sourcebooks. However, DE Luke > DE Sidious. In the later books though quite a few people are barely below Luke after Luke is much stronger. Say for example I would say Saba is 75-90% Luke in FOTJ series depending on who you ask. But if Luke has had a 20% power increase since DE then that puts Saba very close to Sidious which is clearly wrong.

In my mind throw out DE which somehow magically put a basically very lightly trained and experienced Luke (he didn't seem to really know much until the vong invasion imo) on par with Sidious.

Ah, but that's where you've got it all backwards. DE Luke is NOT superior to DE Sidious. That fight was won with help from Leia and the unborn Anakin Solo. Luke doesn't surpass DE Sidious till later in his career.

DE Luke = DE Sidious in sabers

DE Luke << DE Sidious in the force

Leia and Anakin gave very little help at best so even with that formula Luke has to be 90% of Sidious and you would still end up with the same problem. In addition another thing undermining DE's cred is that a ton of powers Dark Horse threw in there are never ever seen again. Including the one Luke used with Leia to defeat Sidious at one point rather easily. Luke would of spammed the shit out of that later with other Jedi if it was that OP and existed.

Originally posted by Stigma
DE Luke = DE Sidious in sabers

DE Luke << DE Sidious in the force

This even if you say DE Luke = DE Sidious leads to a lot of other problems because as its also said in DE if I remember correctly that DE Sidious > all Sith before him. And you take into acount that Luke has continued to improve by say 20-50% by FOTJ and several Jedi and Sith are regarded as somewhat close to him in terms of power. (Jaina, Saba, Caedus) You come to the conclusion that

Jaina Saba and Caedus would curb stomp people like Malgus or Bane or pretty much any sith other than Sidious because they all have to be weaker and this puts them on about his level.

So... we ignore DE? No, thank you.

No, we just ignore certain aspects of certain sources. Other aspects of other sources we embrace. 👆
Who tells us what's ok and what's not...that's the real question 😉

Yeah, Sidious definitely isn't in the top five, with Abeloth and the Ones taking the top 4 spots and Luke Skywalker or one of the Bedlam Spirits taking spot #5. Taking away the Ones/Bedlams though, Sidious comfortably sits at #2.

Originally posted by zEniX
This even if you say DE Luke = DE Sidious leads to a lot of other problems because as its also said in DE if I remember correctly that DE Sidious > all Sith before him. And you take into acount that Luke has continued to improve by say 20-50% by FOTJ and several Jedi and Sith are regarded as somewhat close to him in terms of power. (Jaina, Saba, Caedus) You come to the conclusion that

Jaina Saba and Caedus would curb stomp people like Malgus or Bane or pretty much any sith other than Sidious because they all have to be weaker and this puts them on about his level.

one of the few posters who understands the logic I am employing, I feel like most others on this forum align with a completely different paradigm.

It is nice to converse with someone who understands.