Originally posted by Kotor3
So, Apollo who was inactive for 2 or 7 years (which ever you wish to believe) was in shape when he fought Drago but Rocky who was an active fighter was out of shape when he fought Lang.Ok, now you are just stating things that do not make any sense.
We obviously are not going to agree. I recognize Drago to be a beast however the lowballing of Lang is ridiculous. His feats more than prove he is a beast who would be a formidable foe for Drago.
So, I agree to disagree with you.
Rocky was out of shape compared to his Rocky II self, but his bigger problem was his mental state. Not only had he lost his edge, but he just saw Mickey die. He wasn't focused at all. When I say Apollo was in shape, I mean he was in good physical shape overall, not that he was as good as he was in his prime.
Again, what feats? All he has is KOing an unfocused Rocky. Drago has the 2150 PSI punch, killing Creed, and going toe to toe with a stronger Rocky for 3 times longer than Lang did.
Originally posted by Kotor3
Rocky kick Lang’s ass in the second fight.Let us examine the fight.
• Round 1 – Rocky hits Lang with everything he has.
o Lang lands no hits
o Rocky is unable to knock down Lang
o Rocky punches does nothing but piss Lang off
• Round 2 – Lang destroys Rocky
o Knocks him down 2 times before the round is over
o Rocky is told that he cannot go toe to toe with Lang by Apollo
• Round 3 – Rocky resorts to the rope a dope strategy
o Rocky lets Lang punch himself out while he blocks and doges his hits
o When Lang is tired and weak Rocky unloads on him.Facts:
• Rocky hits had no effect on a full strength Lang
• Rocky had to change his fighting style in order to compete with Lang
• No opponent Rocky faced required him to change his fighting style and employ as much strategy as he did with Lang.Rocky kicked Lang’s ass. LOL.
So Rocky dominates Lang 2 out of 3 rounds and this is a good feat for Lang. Lol.
Originally posted by Psychotron
Rocky was out of shape compared to his Rocky II self, but his bigger problem was his mental state. Not only had he lost his edge, but he just saw Mickey die. He wasn't focused at all. When I say Apollo was in shape, I mean he was in good physical shape overall, not that he was as good as he was in his prime.Again, what feats? All he has is KOing an unfocused Rocky. Drago has the 2150 PSI punch, killing Creed, and going toe to toe with a stronger Rocky for 3 times longer than Lang did.
5 times longer, as I'm fairly sure that it was a 15 round fight.
Originally posted by Silent Master😆
It will be a stomp, as Lang has zero feats that suggest he can take Drago level hits for even 1 round.
As usual you ignore all facts and bring up nothing to support yours.
Concession accepted once again.
Originally posted by PsychotronYou and I do not agree on a lot of things but I respect that you at least try to explain your points. Honestly though for your last few posts you are starting to sound like Silent Master which is not good. You are not addressing any of my points.
Rocky was out of shape compared to his Rocky II self, but his bigger problem was his mental state. Not only had he lost his edge, but he just saw Mickey die. He wasn't focused at all. When I say Apollo was in shape, I mean he was in good physical shape overall, not that he was as good as he was in his prime.Again, what feats? All he has is KOing an unfocused Rocky. Drago has the 2150 PSI punch, killing Creed, and going toe to toe with a stronger Rocky for 3 times longer than Lang did.
Please prove how Rocky was out of shape in part III during the first fight of the movie. There is not one quote to support your statement. He was actively fighting.
I am glad you recognize Apollo was nothing in comparison to his old self. So, please tell me how Drago beating and killing Apollo in 2 rounds is impressive but Lang destroying Rocky in 2 rounds is not.
I posted feats for Lang multiple times. If you do not want to recognize them that doesn’t change the fact that they are accurate feats for Lang.
Once again, address my points. Prove that Rocky strength and power had increase drastically by Rocky IV. Address the fact that Rocky hits had no effect on a full strength Lang. Prove that Rocky hits are stronger than Lang's by part IV.
You have said nothing to prove that Drago would stomp Lang. I have provided plenty of proof that it would be a slugfest between the two. If you are going to address my points then I will continue this conversation otherwise we are just going to disagree.
Originally posted by Kotor3
You and I do not agree on a lot of things but I respect that you at least try to explain your points. Honestly though for your last few posts you are starting to sound like Silent Master which is not good. You are not addressing any of my points.Please prove how Rocky was out of shape in part III during the first fight of the movie. There is not one quote to support your statement. He was actively fighting.
I am glad you recognize Apollo was nothing in comparison to his old self. So, please tell me how Drago beating and killing Apollo in 2 rounds is impressive but Lang destroying Rocky in 2 rounds is not.
I posted feats for Lang multiple times. If you do not want to recognize them that doesn’t change the fact that they are accurate feats for Lang.
Once again, address my points. Prove that Rocky strength and power had increase drastically by Rocky IV. Address the fact that Rocky hits had no effect on a full strength Lang. Prove that Rocky hits are stronger than Lang's by part IV.
You have said nothing to prove that Drago would stomp Lang. I have provided plenty of proof that it would be a slugfest between the two. If you are going to address my points then I will continue this conversation otherwise we are just going to disagree.
That was the whole point of the movie, Rocky had lost his hunger and wasn't as good as he was when he first took the title from Creed. Apollo talked about it, Mickey even comments on it, saying he picked opponents for Rocky that were good but weren't killers.
Not nothing, he's a former world champion after all, that kind of skill doesn't just disappear. Lang KOed an unfocused Rocky, Apollo wasn't distracted by his mentor dying. Also, killing someone is more impressive than just KOing them.
You didn't post any relevant feats. Lang has one feat, and that's it.
You mean besides the whole training montage being centered around physical training, weightlifting, and endurance training? Not to mention that Rocky was in much better shape visually than he was in Rocky I and II. And in IV he ran up a whole mountain, while he could only climb some stairs in the previous ones. His training in Russia was all about strength and endurance, which he needed to go up against Drago, while in III he focused on speed and technique. I never said he was stronger than Lang by IV, he was stonger than his Rocky I-III self. Lang's hits were equally ineffective against Rocky, who was eating them and asking for more.
Even if you want to argue that Lang is as strong as Drago (he's not), Lang has a major stamina problem. He gasses in 3 rounds, while Drago has the endurance to go 15, and since Drago hits harder than Rocky he'll drop Lang in 2 rounds tops. Drago also has a major reach advantage, he can keep Lang at a distance if he wants to.
Originally posted by PsychotronOk. We agree. So I’ll take this to mean that you also agree that Rocky was in shape and not out of shape.
That was the whole point of the movie, Rocky had lost his hunger and wasn't as good as he was when he first took the title from Creed. Apollo talked about it, Mickey even comments on it, saying he picked opponents for Rocky that were good but weren't killers.
Originally posted by PsychotronHis mentor did not die until after the fight was over. If you find killing someone who had not had a professional fight in over 5 years and who did not trained like he was supposed to impressive, then Ok. I don’t.
Not nothing, he's a former world champion after all, that kind of skill doesn't just disappear. Lang KOed an unfocused Rocky, Apollo wasn't distracted by his mentor dying. Also, killing someone is more impressive than just KOing them.
Yes, I find destroying an active champion who was undefeated as a champion by KO in the second round more impressive whether that fighter was hungry or not.
Originally posted by PsychotronYou mean the fact that he destroyed Rocky in the first fight. Or that fact that Rocky hits did nothing to him until he tired out and became weak. How about the fact that Rocky couldn’t face him straight on. Right no relevant feats.
You didn't post any relevant feats. Lang has one feat, and that's it.
Here is something for you. Since you like to mentioned Drago’s power so much, at the same link I sent you before with FAQ for Rocky IV (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089927/faq#.2.1.1) the question is raised: Is Rocky Superhuman since Drago has a punch over 2000 psi and repeatedly punches Rocky in the head but still loses? Answer:
1. Rocky can take a lot of damage.
2. Another part of the practical explanation for how Rocky survives Drago's punch is that Drago would not be able to punch him that hard in active competition. The strongest punch Drago registers is 2150 psi. This is more than a shotgun has at point-blank range, and were he to actually punch Rocky that hard, he would literally kill him. However, Drago registers that punch in a sterile, non-competitive environment against a stationary, undefended target; in an actual match, he would never be able to punch with that degree of severity and precision. So the answer to the question of how Rocky is able to survive such a massive punch is that he isn't - he is never punched that hard.
Originally posted by PsychotronI agree about the training. I never said Rocky’s power did not increase I was questioning how drastic of an increase was it. As for the Lang comment we could say the same about Drago or anyone Rocky fought. The fact though is Lang hits did effect Rocky and that is why he changed his style of fighting and use so much strategy when fighting Lang. Let not down play Lang’s power.
You mean besides the whole training montage being centered around physical training, weightlifting, and endurance training? Not to mention that Rocky was in much better shape visually than he was in Rocky I and II. And in IV he ran up a whole mountain, while he could only climb some stairs in the previous ones. His training in Russia was all about strength and endurance, which he needed to go up against Drago, while in III he focused on speed and technique. I never said he was stronger than Lang by IV, he was stonger than his Rocky I-III self. Lang's hits were equally ineffective against Rocky, who was eating them and asking for more.
Lang tired out so quickly because he was putting too much into his hits as his manager told him.
Originally posted by PsychotronI never argued that Lang was as strong or stronger. My argument has always been that it would not be a stomp for Drago. I agree Drago has the advantage due to the same reasons you mentioned and I have mentioned this already in a previous post. However, Drago has never face someone who hits as hard as Lang. Thus it would be a slugfest that I agree would not last longer than 2 or 3 rounds. If Rocky hits had an effect than Lang’s hits definitely would have an effect on Drago.
Even if you want to argue that Lang is as strong as Drago (he's not), Lang has a major stamina problem. He gasses in 3 rounds, while Drago has the endurance to go 15, and since Drago hits harder than Rocky he'll drop Lang in 2 rounds tops. Drago also has a major reach advantage, he can keep Lang at a distance if he wants to.
I definitely give Drago the majority when it comes to getting a win.
Originally posted by Kotor3
Ok. We agree. So I’ll take this to mean that you also agree that Rocky was in shape and not out of shape.His mentor did not die until after the fight was over. If you find killing someone who had not had a professional fight in over 5 years and who did not trained like he was supposed to impressive, then Ok. I don’t.
Yes, I find destroying an active champion who was undefeated as a champion by KO in the second round more impressive whether that fighter was hungry or not.
You mean the fact that he destroyed Rocky in the first fight. Or that fact that Rocky hits did nothing to him until he tired out and became weak. How about the fact that Rocky couldn’t face him straight on. Right no relevant feats.
Here is something for you. Since you like to mentioned Drago’s power so much, at the same link I sent you before with FAQ for Rocky IV (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089927/faq#.2.1.1) the question is raised: Is Rocky Superhuman since Drago has a punch over 2000 psi and repeatedly punches Rocky in the head but still loses? Answer:
1. Rocky can take a lot of damage.
2. Another part of the practical explanation for how Rocky survives Drago's punch is that Drago would not be able to punch him that hard in active competition. The strongest punch Drago registers is 2150 psi. This is more than a shotgun has at point-blank range, and were he to actually punch Rocky that hard, he would literally kill him. However, Drago registers that punch in a sterile, non-competitive environment against a stationary, undefended target; in an actual match, he would never be able to punch with that degree of severity and precision. So the answer to the question of how Rocky is able to survive such a massive punch is that he isn't - he is never punched that hard.I agree about the training. I never said Rocky’s power did not increase I was questioning how drastic of an increase was it. As for the Lang comment we could say the same about Drago or anyone Rocky fought. The fact though is Lang hits did effect Rocky and that is why he changed his style of fighting and use so much strategy when fighting Lang. Let not down play Lang’s power.
Lang tired out so quickly because he was putting too much into his hits as his manager told him.
I never argued that Lang was as strong or stronger. My argument has always been that it would not be a stomp for Drago. I agree Drago has the advantage due to the same reasons you mentioned and I have mentioned this already in a previous post. However, Drago has never face someone who hits as hard as Lang. Thus it would be a slugfest that I agree would not last longer than 2 or 3 rounds. If Rocky hits had an effect than Lang’s hits definitely would have an effect on Drago.
I definitely give Drago the majority when it comes to getting a win.
No, because it was pointed out that he wasn't at his best.
Yeah, but he was in serious condition before that, so Rocky was seriously distracted. Apollo still prepped for the match, it's not like he was sitting at home eating chips while Drago was slamming weights. And he wasn't unfocused like Rocky was.
And Rocky defeated Lang who was an active champion in 3 rounds when he was ready for him. He couldn't do that to Drago.
Rocky did face him head on. In what world is blocking (occasionally) not facing someone? And as I've said before, Lang connected with a lot of his blows and was unable to KO Rocky.
IMDB is not a real source. Now, it's true that Drago probably wouldn't be able to hit that hard in a match but lasting 15 rounds while getting punched at 60-70% of that is still insane. Rocky just has freakish damage age soak, especially after his training in Russia.
Well, we have no way to meassure it for sure, but the implication was that Rocky needed it to face Drago. He already had his speed and technique down from Rocky III so he didn't need to focus on that again.
Sure, Lang hits harder than Rocky, but so does Drago. And with his massive reach advantage he could pummel Lang from a distance if he feels like it. I don't see this fight going past 3 or 4 rounds.
Originally posted by Kotor3
Ok. We see certain things differently. If you see the fight lasting up to 3 rounds with a possible 4 then you agree that it would not be a stomp by Drago. We can agree on that.
Eh, I do kinda see it as a stomp. Like the Klitschko vs. Pulev fight last year. It lasted 5 rounds but it was total a domination by Klitschko.
Originally posted by PsychotronI am not convince nor do I agree that it would be stomp. Obviously, I haven't convince you, so I will leave this conversation as it is a disagreement.
Eh, I do kinda see it as a stomp. Like the Klitschko vs. Pulev fight last year. It lasted 5 rounds but it was total a domination by Klitschko.
Look guys I don't know what is so hard to grasp about this concept. Rocky went toe to toe with Drago and didn't think twice about it. He had learned the benefit of using speed and quickness to avoid an opponent to strong and powerful for you. If Drago truly was that, he would've employed that strategy. He didn't. Instead he met him head on and took everything Drago had and dished it back. Beating him at a slugfest essentially. He couldn't do the same with Lang and knew it. Thus he changed his whole approach and strategy to fight Lang. This is further proven by Lang seeing to hurt Rocky more with his punches. The simply reality is this... we can talk about a PSI till we're blue in the face.. all that really matters is Lang seemingly hit Rokcy harder and was seemingly too much for Rocky to meet head on, unlike Drago.