Chris Avellone's thoughts on Revan vs Darth Traya & Meetra Surik

Started by S_W_LeGenD8 pages

Originally posted by Nephthys
That its a ritual only reinforces how different it is. If it's not performed in the same way, it doesn't do the same things and it achieves different results, then its a different ****ing attack. Meetra explicitly states that Nathema is different to what she'd experienced previously. Every aspect is different, Legend.

What exactly is a ritual, Neph? Good luck finding information in this regard.

As for the assumed difference, what exactly is the difference?

Originally posted by Nephthys
I have Traya stating that, yes. Whereas you have absolutely nothing supporting your theories other than you really, desperately wanting them to be true. And Meetra already knows the freaking technique. That's the whole point of the game. She uses it unknowingly the whole time. So there's no point telling her that to keep her from learning a technique she already knows and is performing all the damn time.

Surik performed Force Drain instinctively by being a Wound, yes. She drew on her surroundings to gather power to manipulate her surroundings in return, yes. But her connection to the Force began to restore as well, this is why she eventually healed.

My point of contention is that Traya manipulated Surik for personal gains, and her disclosures are not necessarily absolutely true. She is fallible: a simple fact that you cannot grasp.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I know you really, really, reeeeeeeeeeeally want Vitiate to be the best at everything ever but he just isn't and you should accept that.

Emperor > Traya and Nihilus. Deal with it.

XD Revan build HK-50 and 47 before Malachor V.
He just forget to change the protocole of HK-47 to add his behavior protocol at the begining of the Jedi civil war only....
But it seam than he build HK-50 as protocol droid equipped with a proton core, that equipêd most of the republic fleet... It was before than Revan have the famous device than he have in possession...

"Being intelligent and a master strategist doesn't make him omnipotent. "

Except if he is outmatched and few person outmatch Revan, this is not, he is near omnipotent.

Originally posted by ares834
Uh, what? No he doesn't.

Care to elaborate or is that not how wannabe condescending posts work?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Most have mistakenly assumed that Traya can defeat any foe with Force Drain powers. Mr. Chris eventually dispelled this myth.

And she can if they don't have a defense for it. All this email states is that a prepped Revan will probably find a defense.

All your usual speculative and quotational tactics aside, there's nothing to prove that an un-prepped Revan has the defense to this technique.

Originally posted by Based
And she can if they don't have a defense for it. All this email states is that a prepped Revan will probably find a defense.

All your usual speculative and quotational tactics aside, there's nothing to prove that an un-prepped Revan has the defense to this technique.


You ignored my other points. May I ask why?

Also, Mr. Chris have said nothing about special preparation on part of Revan. You are misrepresenting his position.

FYI:

"If the Exile could defeat Kreia, Revan would have an easier time of it. (;_United with the Exile, Kreia and the Exile vs. Revan? My money’s still on Revan, since in my mind, Revan was a master strategist as well as an extremely powerful Force wielder."

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You ignored my other points. May I ask why?

I'm sure deep, deep down you know that by posting a quote of Revan being described as a genius, or brilliant or whatever isn't sufficient enough proof. Which was essentially your entire post.

Also, Mr. Chris have said nothing about special preparation on part of Revan. You are misrepresenting his position.

The very next sentence which you elected to not quote stated that it's circumstantial. "Granted, it depends on the circumstances, but everything else being equal, Revan’s just... Revan."

All he's saying that if we take out these external factors and make everything equal then Revan would beat Kreia and that's well understood. If all we did was make Revan into a Force Wound to make him equal to the Exile then yes Revan would kick the dick out of her.

Originally posted by Based
Care to elaborate or is that not how wannabe condescending posts work?

And she can if they don't have a defense for it. All this email states is that a prepped Revan will probably find a defense.

All your usual speculative and quotational tactics aside, there's nothing to prove that an un-prepped Revan has the defense to this technique.

Wellthe exile defeat her.. So that's not a surprise....

Revan was not like thrawn improvisation is always on his side...

So really, a single quote saying "Oh so and so is a master strategist and powerful Force User" is enough now to defeat someone without backing up to reasons as to why and or showing off feats of power and such?

Ok I'll keep that in mind then...

No, but a quote saying such and such character would defeat the other is enough. 🙂

Originally posted by Based
Care to elaborate or is that not how wannabe condescending posts work?

Elaborate on what? He didn't say Revan would need time to learn a defense as your post claimed. It merely called him a "master strategist".

Originally posted by ares834
No, but a quote saying such and such character would defeat the other is enough. 🙂

Elaborate on what? He didn't say Revan would need time to learn a defense as your post claimed. It merely called him a "master strategist".

Which seemed to be an opinion given the "in my mind" part.

But that's not my point, he just said "Because Revan was a master strategist and powerful Force User"

That bit is what I'm taking issue with.

So all someone would have to be is a master strategist and powerful Force User to beat Traya?...

That's where it is just silly imo.

His actual quote is "extremely powerful Force wielder". And yeah, it is an opinion. Although a very informed opinion.

Originally posted by ares834
His actual quote is "extremely powerful Force wielder". And yeah, it is an opinion. Although a very informed opinion.

Extremely, powerful, whichever. Just silly to me.

Originally posted by Revanchiste
He creat him... You idiot !!!! You should read his work before saying bullshits !!!

The irony in this is so delicious, I had to book a dentist appointment tomorrow. Thanks for giving me the laugh, I guess, and for being readable. Drew Karpyshyn created Revan, and the Revan established in KotOR II hardly even exists anymore.

Literally can't stop laughing at "Mr. Chris".

Originally posted by Based
I'm sure deep, deep down you know that by posting a quote of Revan being described as a genius, or brilliant or whatever isn't sufficient enough proof. Which was essentially your entire post.

And this is the problem, you are not paying attention to available information.

Revan have superior command of the Force then Sion, Traya, Nihilus and Surik. In-fact, all Jedi of his era and then some.

Revan and Emperor Vitiate understand the Force in ways unlike most individuals of the mythos.

These are meaningful revelations, dear.

Originally posted by Based
The very next sentence which you elected to not quote stated that it's circumstantial. "Granted, it depends on the circumstances, but everything else being equal, Revan’s just... Revan."

All he's saying that if we take out these external factors and make everything equal then Revan would beat Kreia and that's well understood. If all we did was make Revan into a Force Wound to make him equal to the Exile then yes Revan would kick the dick out of her.


That remark is for Revan's confrontation with the duo of Traya and Surik. Of-course, taking on the latter two may require some strategy or good decision-making element since both are powerful Force-users with impressive Force-abilities. In-fact, Traya smoked 3 Jedi Masters as if they were nothing. Surik also have command of dangerous talents such as Force Sever.

Their is no requirement of Revan being a Force Wound to take on Traya however, he will easily dismiss her (solo) because he have relatively superior command of the Force and raw power (this means a lot in terms of possibilities for Revan essentially).

Against the duo of Traya and Surik, Revan may need to strategize to some extent or make good decisions which sounds realistic. However, Revan is good enough to defeat this duo in a balanced scenario, per Mr. Chris.

The circumstances argument is that a confrontation is likely to involve elements that may influence the effectiveness of its participants. Their is hardly a confrontation in the lore, in which circumstances are not involved at a certain level; these events are not black and white in most cases. This is what Mr. Chris is implying, and this is exactly what most authors will assert in a conversation. For example, Mr. Drew often asserts that anybody can win or loose in a fight between powerful Force-users, depending upon circumstances.

However, keeping in mind the tactical brilliance and power of Revan, Mr. Chris felt confident to assert that Revan can defeat even the duo of Surik and Meetra, should this hypothetical confrontation occur. Revan is just this damn good.

Force Wound condition had its advantages but it wasn't a reliable facet of raw power for an individual in the long-run. Surik benefitted from this condition in some ways like she was immune to effects of Force Drain powers for as long as the condition lasted and was also able to manipulate her surroundings like a proper Force-user. Otherwise, she was no Revan, and lacked the power and tactical brilliance to tackle the Triumvirate opposition, like Revan could with his own abilities.

I have always felt Surik was not supposed to be the juggernaut of destruction that Revan was. Surik's accomplishment is a representative of a hero who tackled overwhelming odds under the special circumstances.

Meetra had been close enough to feel the shock wave; to survive it she had cut herself off from the Force, shielding her psyche against the horrors of what she had unleashed. Many years had passed before she regained her connection to the Force, but in the end, surviving the trauma of Malachor V had given her the strength to defeat Darth Traya and her followers.

Taken from (Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan)

Originally posted by Selenial
Literally can't stop laughing at "Mr. Chris".

We do the same thing when an author says something about Sidous. 🙂

Originally posted by Based
Care to elaborate or is that not how wannabe condescending posts work?

And she can if they don't have a defense for it. All this email states is that a prepped Revan will probably find a defense.

All your usual speculative and quotational tactics aside, there's nothing to prove that an un-prepped Revan has the defense to this technique.

Force drain can be counter... Nihilus force drain is an other story...

And Revan also use force drain so....

Originally posted by Zenwolf
So really, a single quote saying "Oh so and so is a master strategist and powerful Force User" is enough now to defeat someone without backing up to reasons as to why and or showing off feats of power and such?

Ok I'll keep that in mind then...

The problem is that the soures that confirm that Revan have this power are really hard to found, Darth Revan is really a mysterious character...
And most of his abilities are non feat related.... So stop harassing me with those feats. Also when you find a describtion of Revan knowledge and power, the anwser is... A LOT. You know than have read countless of holocron contenaing countless technics etc.... That's obvious than Revan panel of abilities is really large.... Revan is alos inventive it's like when you discover the extended universe for the first time thank to Holonet and you want to make your ship vessel and invention based on what you have learn....

Can you detail me Tulak hord technic?? Well you have no detail so he suck isn't it? Right? In fact of course no !!!

The same for Revan...

+ Revan have beann tjank to the force teach by the emperor... The great sith emperor teach him as many as he can so... Basicly... It's hard to teach something than do not already know with teh Rakattas the siths etc...

@Zenwolf

Originally posted by Based
Care to elaborate or is that not how wannabe condescending posts work?

And she can if they don't have a defense for it. All this email states is that a prepped Revan will probably find a defense.

All your usual speculative and quotational tactics aside, there's nothing to prove that an un-prepped Revan has the defense to this technique.

Force drain can be counter... Nihilus force drain is an other story...

And Revan also use force drain so....

Originally posted by Zenwolf
So really, a single quote saying "Oh so and so is a master strategist and powerful Force User" is enough now to defeat someone without backing up to reasons as to why and or showing off feats of power and such?

Ok I'll keep that in mind then...

The problem is that the soures that confirm that Revan have this power are really hard to found, Darth Revan is really a mysterious character...
And most of his abilities are non feat related.... So stop harassing me with those feats. Also when you find a describtion of Revan knowledge and power, the anwser is... A LOT. You know than have read countless of holocron contenaing countless technics etc.... That's obvious than Revan panel of abilities is really large.... Revan is alos inventive it's like when you discover the extended universe for the first time thank to Holonet and you want to make your ship vessel and invention based on what you have learn....

Can you detail me Tulak hord technic?? Well you have no detail so he suck isn't it? Right? In fact of course no !!!

The same for Revan...

+ The emperor use the force to teach Revan as many technic as he can... in no time....

Originally posted by psmith81992
We do the same thing when an author says something about Sidous. 🙂

Non-sequitur ftw. 👆

Originally posted by psmith81992
We do the same thing when an author says something about Sidous. 🙂

Lol I don't give a shit what they have to say, unless it's in published material. I care more about Neph's opinions than I do theirs, since at least he is informed on other spheres of canon.

I was literally just laughing at Legend calling him "Mr Chris", though I must admit you thinking I care about Sidious remotely made me chuckle too.

Originally posted by Selenial
Lol I don't give a shit what they have to say, unless it's in published material. I care more about Neph's opinions than I do theirs, since at least he is informed on other spheres of canon.

This would make sense if he was actually dipping his hands into the other spheres of canon

He's not

He's only discussing characters he had a hand in molding or creating in relation to other characters he had a hand in molding or creating

As far as authority goes concerning that? He's more than qualified to do so.

Not that this was really needed, I thought this result was pretty obvious with or without his word in the first place :maybe

I was literally just laughing at Legend calling him "Mr Chris"

Yeah... outside of addressing the ****er in email (though addressing him by first name still seems too informal for that), this is incredibly awkward to say in casual conversation