Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yeah, it kinda was Bane's unpredictability that allowed him to throw her to the floor with an elbow strike. He caught her off guard with his unpredictability in that duel, and in DOE, he had only become far more unpredictable, retooling his fighting style around it.
This is stupid as hell. Countless character win by being "unpredictable" and catching their opponent off guard...
In DMBs language simple throws and changing lightsaber forms and random slashes means you are 00ber and a great tactician. I'm also loling at using TCW as an example, yeah, the show where politicians can beat up Anakin and pirates can capture Dooku. DMB also conveniently left out that another Tukata pack almost killed Bane, and that Bane got beaten up by mercenaries in spite of knowing something was wrong in the mansion. Nice calling on low showings though 👆. Tell me when Bane can beat guys like Jinn, Kenobi, fight evenly with Mace Windu, and kill Black sun vigos/gang members/Vong/Wampas with his bare hands.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Kills:Black Sun(twice).
Qui-Gon Jinn.
Anoon Bondara.
Sun Guard.
Assassin Droids.Martial victories:
Asajj Ventress.
TCW Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Savage Opress.Martial Equals:
Darth Vader
Mace WinduSignificant losses:
Darth Sidious (Twice)
TPM KenobiThat list of opponents is far more impressive than Zannah, Kas'im and Lsu.
Maul has MUCH more screen-time* than Bane in canon and in the EU, so it shouldn't be a surprise that he has more feats. That should not distort one's perception of how powerful non-PT characters are.
Do you really believe that Bane would be unable to replicate the victories that you've listed here?
Also, Maul is not Windu's equal. Asajj and Depa put up good fights against Mace, but that doesn't mean they are on the same tier as him.
*I'm using screen-time to mean his number of appearances in movies, cartoons, novels, comics, video games, and other media.
Combat feats:
Darth Maul defeats Anoon Bondara before their duel had even begun, despite the Jedi Master being called 'one of the order's best fighters':
The Jedi was obviously a master of the teräs käsi fighting arts, as well, judging by the smooth way he parried and counterattacked. Still, within the first few moments of the engagement, Darth Maul knew that he himself was the superior fighter. He could tell that the Jedi knew it, too, but Maul also knew that it didn’t matter. (Shadow Hunter 76)
Darth Maul engages Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn a high tier master of Ataru and is the faster of the two:
His attacker closed with him again, forcing him back, striking at him from every angle. Even without knowing anything else, Qui-Gon knew this man was trained in the fighting arts of a Jedi, a skilled and dangerous adversary. Worse, he was younger, quicker, and stronger than Qui-Gon, and he was gaining ground rapidly. (Episode 1-The Phantom Menace 139)
Darth Maul engages Qui-Gon Jinn & Obi-Wan Kenobi and the Jedi's efforts are described as 'woefully inadequate':
Together, they were able to hold their own against the Sith Lord, but their efforts to attack, at assuming the offensive against this dangerous adversary, were woefully inadequate. Qui-Gon recognized that while it might seem as if the Jedi were driving him before them, it was the Sith Lord who was controlling the struggle. Wheeling and spinning, leaping and somersaulting with astonishing ease, their enemy was taking them with him, drawing them on a place of his own choosing. His agility and dexterity allowed him to keep them both at bay, constantly attacking while at the same time effectively blunting their counterattacks, relentlessly searching for an opening in their defense. (Episode 1-The Phantom Menace 200)
These are just some feats but the apparent ease of which he can defeat high tier Jedi Masters in combat and maintain 'relentless' speed and agility is incredibly impressive. This alone shows he is without a doubt a top tier martial combatant.
Beyond this Darth Maul has defeated Komari Vosa despite a hole through his arm from a blaster.
In off-panel fights he has defeated General Grievous cleanly and held his own against Mace Windu and Aayla Secura by himself.
Speed Feats:
He cuts through a solid wall faster than his opponent's wrist launcher can fire it's missile after ignition:
Desperate, she reached for her wrist launcher. Her only chance was to hit the horned one squarely and hope that the explosion would be contained enough by the other’s body to allow Lihnn to survive. But as she triggered the launcher the tattooed man seemed to disappear in a blur. All of a sudden there was a hole in the wall where an instant ago it had been solid. Too late, Lihnn tried to stop the rocket from firing, but the reactionless motor flared and the missile leapt from her wrist. (Shadow Hunter 55)
Runs five times faster than a Human could:
There was an even quicker way to overtake them. He called upon the Force, moving easily five times faster than a human could travel at a dead run. There was no way they could escape him now. (Shadow Hunter 71)
Generates a shield of light with his lightsaber:
She barely had time to catch her breath before the Sith was there in front of her. His eyes were hypnotic, their golden hue an eerie counterpart to the bloodred and black tattoos covering his face. But they did not prevent her from deflecting his strikes as he again moved within range, his twin blades spinning so fast they seemed to merge into a crimson shield. (Shadow Hunter 143)
Moves faster than either eyes or droid photoreceptors can see:
Zero started to stand up, and Maul’s hand moved faster than the eye could see, grabbing Zero’s form and slamming it down so that it impaled the Twi’lek’s sleeve, pinning his arm to the table. (Maul: Lockdown 190)
Maul delivered a sharp kick to the droid’s spherical underside. The droid soared toward the ceiling but regained control before impact and flew back toward the Sith. Maul leaped aside, moving faster than the droid’s photoreceptor could follow. (Episode 1 Adventure: The Fury of Darth Maul 15)
(Thanks to bluefyre73 and his respect thread, link: http://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/2twp3r/respect_darth_maul)
This shows just how ridiculously skilled and fast Maul is, his strength and durability feats are even better but I don't think anyone needs to be reminded of those.
On-top of that Maul is an incredibly smart combatant, by comparison rage mode Bane can barely be reasoned with and takes far too long to analyse combat situations.
Maul wins due to speed, smarts and skill, he is certainly not being over-powered in any manner so Bane's strength only allows him to not be over-powered himself.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Combat feats:Darth Maul defeats Anoon Bondara before their duel had even begun, despite the Jedi Master being called 'one of the order's best fighters':
The Jedi was obviously a master of the teräs käsi fighting arts, as well, judging by the smooth way he parried and counterattacked. Still, within the first few moments of the engagement, Darth Maul knew that he himself was the superior fighter. He could tell that the Jedi knew it, too, but Maul also knew that it didn’t matter. (Shadow Hunter 76)
That's not really beating him before they begin, that's more him just being the apparent better. And it was Bondara's own apprentice who wanked Bondara's skill so much. Might as well say Obi-Wan is as powerful as Windu and as wise as Yoda.
I'm also not sure how him being "one of" their best fighters matters in comparison to Bane. He's a little beyond that you realise.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Darth Maul engages Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn a high tier master of Ataru and is the faster of the two:His attacker closed with him again, forcing him back, striking at him from every angle. Even without knowing anything else, Qui-Gon knew this man was trained in the fighting arts of a Jedi, a skilled and dangerous adversary. Worse, he was younger, quicker, and stronger than Qui-Gon, and he was gaining ground rapidly. (Episode 1-The Phantom Menace 139)
Yeah.
But I mean, that's hardly better than Bane. Qui-Gon sure as hell doesn't rate compared to him.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Darth Maul engages Qui-Gon Jinn & Obi-Wan Kenobi and the Jedi's efforts are described as 'woefully inadequate':Together, they were able to hold their own against the Sith Lord, but their efforts to attack, at assuming the offensive against this dangerous adversary, were woefully inadequate. Qui-Gon recognized that while it might seem as if the Jedi were driving him before them, it was the Sith Lord who was controlling the struggle. Wheeling and spinning, leaping and somersaulting with astonishing ease, their enemy was taking them with him, drawing them on a place of his own choosing. His agility and dexterity allowed him to keep them both at bay, constantly attacking while at the same time effectively blunting their counterattacks, relentlessly searching for an opening in their defense. (Episode 1-The Phantom Menace 200)
Again, hardly makes him better than Bane.
Originally posted by AncientPower
These are just some feats but the apparent ease of which he can defeat high tier Jedi Masters in combat and maintain 'relentless' speed and agility is incredibly impressive. This alone shows he is without a doubt a top tier martial combatant.
Nnnnnnnnno. He's hardly top tier when people like Sidious, Luke and Yoda utterly eclipse him, Dooku surpasses him and others like Krayt, Jacen or Hord are also a level above him in combat. Maul is a mid-tier duelist in the grand scheme of the duelists we pay attention to. Obi-Wan, Ventress and Grievous are his peer's and then there are great duelists above and below him.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Beyond this Darth Maul has defeated Komari Vosa despite a hole through his arm from a blaster.
ok
Originally posted by AncientPower
In off-panel fights he has defeated General Grievous cleanly and held his own against Mace Windu and Aayla Secura by himself.
I wouldn't say he beat GG cleanly. He stunned him with the Force and then tackled him.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Speed Feats:He cuts through a solid wall faster than his opponent's wrist launcher can fire it's missile after ignition:
Desperate, she reached for her wrist launcher. Her only chance was to hit the horned one squarely and hope that the explosion would be contained enough by the other’s body to allow Lihnn to survive. But as she triggered the launcher the tattooed man seemed to disappear in a blur. All of a sudden there was a hole in the wall where an instant ago it had been solid. Too late, Lihnn tried to stop the rocket from firing, but the reactionless motor flared and the missile leapt from her wrist. (Shadow Hunter 55)
Fighting faster than the eye can see is something Johun Othone accomplished. And who even knows how fast those rocket launchers fire
Originally posted by AncientPower
Runs five times faster than a Human could:There was an even quicker way to overtake them. He called upon the Force, moving easily five times faster than a human could travel at a dead run. There was no way they could escape him now. (Shadow Hunter 71)
Pretty standard Force speed as per TPM.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Generates a shield of light with his lightsaber:She barely had time to catch her breath before the Sith was there in front of her. His eyes were hypnotic, their golden hue an eerie counterpart to the bloodred and black tattoos covering his face. But they did not prevent her from deflecting his strikes as he again moved within range, his twin blades spinning so fast they seemed to merge into a crimson shield. (Shadow Hunter 143)
Woefully generic speed feat.
Originally posted by AncientPower
Moves faster than either eyes or droid photoreceptors can see:Zero started to stand up, and Maul’s hand moved faster than the eye could see, grabbing Zero’s form and slamming it down so that it impaled the Twi’lek’s sleeve, pinning his arm to the table. (Maul: Lockdown 190)
Maul delivered a sharp kick to the droid’s spherical underside. The droid soared toward the ceiling but regained control before impact and flew back toward the Sith. Maul leaped aside, moving faster than the droid’s photoreceptor could follow. (Episode 1 Adventure: The Fury of Darth Maul 15)
(Thanks to bluefyre73 and his respect thread, link: http://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/2twp3r/respect_darth_maul)
While still an apprentice Bane was able to move "so much quicker" than a room full of Sith could see. And even with that showing under Bane's belt Kas'im was shocked when he couldn't blitz him and Bane actually outdueled him. In PoD, before Bane improved over a further 20 years. In RoT Bane was moving fast enough that Zannah saw him as wielding a dozen lightsabers at once. And Farfalla perceived BM Raskta (who Bane was as fast as) as being in multiple places at once. All of these guys obviously had enhanced perception as is standard in Force users.
Originally posted by AncientPower
This shows just how ridiculously skilled and fast Maul is, his strength and durability feats are even better but I don't think anyone needs to be reminded of those.On-top of that Maul is an incredibly smart combatant, by comparison rage mode Bane can barely be reasoned with and takes far too long to analyse combat situations.
Maul wins due to speed, smarts and skill, he is certainly not being over-powered in any manner so Bane's strength only allows him to not be over-powered himself.
Nothing you posted indicates Maul is "far" faster and superior to Bane at all. In fact in my estimation he's a lot slower and less able in combat. Bane is also a lot more powerful than him and can destroy Maul with the Force just like Sidious did.
Bane isn't that blind, he was still able to fake out the Jedi Strike Team and target their BM user. And Maul has demonstrated incredible stupidity multiple times leading to him eating a face full of humble pie and yet still being as stupidly arrogant as ever. Bane is also far more intelligent than he is intellectually.
Nah, Bane bulls through Maul and overwhelms him in sabers. Or he demolishes him with the Force. Either way Maul is going down. A glorified thug like Maul is no match for the Sith'ari.