Darth Bane (with orbalisk armor) runs sith lord gauntlet

Started by AncientPower9 pages

The point of making an argument is null because apparently Bane is infallible and Darth Maul despite far superior feats and accolades than Bane (without amps) is a newbie brute with no actual skill. Because fighting Obi-Wan, Windu, Ventress and Sidious(on repeated occasions) is average.

Neph honestly you've done nothing but dismiss opinions and replace them with your own Bane wankery. Darth Maul has the better physical and combat feats by A decent degree, anyone unbiased sees that right away.

Carthage is right, in moderation, almost all of Bane's impressive feats are aided in one way or another, A fact you ignore. Now I don't believe that Bane call only beat trainees and Mercenaries, he is indeed very powerful but applying his nexus feats in comparison to non-amp feats is just as bad on your part.

Darth Maul is a better fighter, he lives and breathes combat, Bane isn't nearly as focused.

I don't see how you've done anything better than dismiss opinions and replace them with Maul wank. It's what you've done the whole thread.

Bane has his orbalisks here. So it doesn't matter whether he needs to be amped or not, he is here.

Sidious isn't as focused either. We saw how that went.

Yet you were the one calling me out for proving nothing despite you yourself having done nothing of the sort.

Bane has his orbalisks but that does not make him unbeatable, Darth Maul is far more talented and skilled not to mention honed for the sole purpose of a complete martial victory by Darth Sidious himself.

Finally, Darth Sidious does not need to focus because he is literally the Dark Side of the Force. The same cannot be said for Darth Bane.

At least I've posted feats and made actual arguments, unlike some people. >:[

Yeah, his superior feats make him.... well, not unbeatable but better than Maul! Without the amp bs you use to dismiss his feats he's better than Maul is. Bane has all his feats here, even the "amped" one's so he takes Maul apart.

And Bane is literally the God of the Sith. I recognize your hyperbole and counter with my own! Also Bane doesn't need to focus either because he's already built as **** and fully mastered the saber in a year or two thanks to his insane learning rate.

^
Oh, so now you're arguing, that Bane is somehow comperable to Sidious? XD

More as an example than a direct comparison.

Wall, statement that Sidious is the Dark Side is obvious exaggeration. Personally, I consider this "DE Sidious", "Sidious is the Dark Side" and "Sidious' Force Strom > entire Galaxy" as really stupid and exaggerated. We can't assume, that character who we have seen in six movies, two cartoons, a lot of comics and books after even 1999, is far superior to the others from his league, just because there is a comic from '91-'95. That is just stupid. Really stupid. But it's your choice guys.
Anyway, the fact with I agree with, is that ROTS Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history. Before he reached his reached his peak, Plagueis was.
Bane can't even hope, to defeat Sidious. Just as Sidious' hype is exaggerated, Bane's is as well. The fact is, that most of his feats were on DS' nexuses. You can ingore my arguments, that Bane couldn't overpower Zannah with his FL, but it only proves that it wasn't that strong. Zannah herself admited, that she wasn't a saber specialist (which would be necessary to defend against lightning if Sidious' caliber). Sarro, Lsu, Bane, and possibly Kas'Im were her superior. And this is really pathetic, to assume that those group of fighters was comperable to the best duelists of the Clone Wars era, like Sidious, Yoda, Dooku, Windu, Anakin, Obi-Wan and Maul.
Dooku was possibly the greatest Makashi master in history, Mace create his own style and mastered it to perfection. Sidious supported his saber mastery with his superior Force argumentation, and Yoda was alsmost untouchble with his agility, speed and small size. Obi-Wan was called by Windu as "the Master" of Soresu (which may be an exaggeration as well). Anakin's legendary strenght in the Force supported his great Djem So. And Maul could compete with most of those guys on equal terms.

Back to FL, you also pointed, that Sidious catched Yoda off guard. That's not true. Yoda was on the edge of platform, and that may be the reason. But he was fully guarded just before Sidious used his FL.
Also, Mace on the screen was able to defend himself against Sidious FL only because Sidious wasn't using his full power. Lucas himself admited, that Sidious was faking. If he would not, Stover's novel is the only alternative answer - Mace would be pushed to his limits, and would be finally overhelmed if Sidious would decided to not stop attacking him.

Bane's lightning is far inferior to Sidious'.

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Originally posted by Nephthys
At least I've posted feats and made actual arguments, unlike some people. >:[

Yeah, his superior feats make him.... well, not unbeatable but better than Maul! Without the amp bs you use to dismiss his feats he's better than Maul is. Bane has all his feats here, even the "amped" one's so he takes Maul apart.

And Bane is literally the God of the Sith. I recognize your hyperbole and counter with my own! Also Bane doesn't need to focus either because he's already built as **** and fully mastered the saber in a year or two thanks to his insane learning rate.

Yes well calling me out for providing no evidence to my arguments is rather inane given that anyone can attest to those exact narrative accolades.

'Amp BS'? It is roundly accepted that feats performed whilst amplified are not representative of A character's real power, otherwise everyone would put Anakin Skywalker in stomp positions due to Mortis feats.

Darth Maul has soundly defeated much greater opponents than Darth Bane has. They have more feats, hype and accolades. Darth Maul is only outmatched against the likes of the man whom trained him, even then Maul has an impressive record against his Sith master.

Orbalisk armor has weaknesses, namely the face and considering this Maul can most certainly get around his plot armor. Maul is a confirmed master of multiple lightsaber forms and martial arts, he was trained to absolute perfection in martial combat by the second greatest martial combatant in the lore. That isn't hyperbole, but fact. Facts Bane can't compare to.

Bane is the Sith'ari certainly but that never actually inferred godlike power. By comparison Darth Sidious is literally A living nexus of Dark Side energy so potent that other Force Users only see blackholes in the Force when viewing him. Coincidentally Darth Sidious can unleash powers similar to black holes so there is that.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Yes well calling me out for providing no evidence to my arguments is rather inane given that anyone can attest to those exact narrative accolades.

'Amp BS'? It is roundly accepted that feats performed whilst amplified are not representative of A character's real power, otherwise everyone would put Anakin Skywalker in stomp positions due to Mortis feats.

Darth Maul has soundly defeated much greater opponents than Darth Bane has. They have more feats, hype and accolades. Darth Maul is only outmatched against the likes of the man whom trained him, even then Maul has an impressive record against his Sith master.

Orbalisk armor has weaknesses, namely the face and considering this Maul can most certainly get around his plot armor. Maul is a confirmed master of multiple lightsaber forms and martial arts, he was trained to absolute perfection in martial combat by the second greatest martial combatant in the lore. That isn't hyperbole, but fact. Facts Bane can't compare to.

Bane is the Sith'ari certainly but that never actually inferred godlike power. By comparison Darth Sidious is literally A living nexus of Dark Side energy so potent that other Force Users only see blackholes in the Force when viewing him. Coincidentally Darth Sidious can unleash powers similar to black holes so there is that.

Not really. I'm calling you out on saying that Maul is better in every respect and has far superior feats yet not actually giving those feats or offering evidence to support such an assertion. Meanwhile I have posted many feats for Bane. So you're being utterly wrong and hypocritical in suggesting that all I'm doing is dismissing opinions and replacing them with Bane wank when you've done nothing but the same with Maul.

Yet there is no reason to dismiss those feats out of hand and suggest they're completely irrelevant. If a character performs an amped feat before their prime then surely they'd be capable of repeating it when at it (provided the amp isn't too extensive). Maybe to a slightly lesser extent. Bane's actually demonstrated this to be true btw. And If a character performs an amped feat quite easily, then there's no reason to think they couldn't replicate it with much more effort. Again, at worst to a slightly diminished capacity. Both which apply to Bane. And theres the problem with amps, like nexus', being ambiguous and not properly mentioned to be taking place. So yeah, I'd say little critical evaluation is far preferable to outright dismissal. Maul would need to have his power doubled or more to perform Bane's Temple feat, not accounting for the prep. And Bane performed it in his lesser incarnation. So I have no problems with saying he's greater in TK to him, supported again with Bane's technobeast disintegration feat. And as I said, Bane IS amped here, so it's irrelevant. So how does Maul stack up to a full power Bane with all his feats? Not well I think.

Eh.... has he really? Qui-Gon, TMP Obi-Wan, Bondara... aren't those his only clean victories? I don't see them as anything to brag about overmuch. And victories aren't the best way to evaluate someone. Bane was in hiding for most of his career, he's only even met Jedi on one occasion. Not really a reliable method for comparison. His speed, strength, power and skill are enough for him to take Maul however.

Bane doesn't need plot armor when he has real armor. Just saying his armor has weaknesses doesn't make the advantage any less immense. Those weakpoints are all very hard to hit and having most of his body being protected gives Bane a huge practical advantage over Mauls lack of protection. He can block blows with his body and simply shrug off attacks to get the upper hand, with total abandon to attack Mauls whole body while Maul has to work to target small, easily protected places. He's also basically immune to martial arts strikes, which Maul is very prone to using. The orblalisks also increase his speed, strength, reflexes and force power and gives him rapid regeneration. And Bane isn't exactly lagging behind Maul in skill. He's also a master of multiple forms, probably all of them. He was more than a match for Kas'im, who's skill arguably exceeds Maul's given that he's mastered ever form, utterly perfected his skills with every single one of them and shown enough talent to invent hundreds of thousands of sequences and moves for all of them. And unlike Bane, Maul never completed his training. He's not good enough that he's so much better that he can dominate Bane and target his weak points. Not in skill and not in speed.

You're wrong, the Book of Sith and the other descriptions of the Sith'ari prophecy specifically outlines that the Sith'ari will possess immense, godlike power. Specifically using the phrases "perfect strength", "perfect power" and "a perfect being" who will be "free from limits". Sorzus Syn states that the concept of the Sith'ari expressly relates to strength and directly states that Sith'ari should be considered a god. She also directly compares it to the Jedi's prophecy of the Chosen One. And no, Dooku's descriptive fellatio of Sidious shouldn't be taken seriously just like Traya's shouldn't of Revan. If Sidious is a black hole in the Force the Revan must be the heart of it as well.

Originally posted by McP
Wall, statement that Sidious [b]is the Dark Side is obvious exaggeration. Personally, I consider this "DE Sidious", "Sidious is the Dark Side" and "Sidious' Force Strom > entire Galaxy" as really stupid and exaggerated. We can't assume, that character who we have seen in six movies, two cartoons, a lot of comics and books after even 1999, is far superior to the others from his league, just because there is a comic from '91-'95. That is just stupid. Really stupid. But it's your choice guys.[/b]

👆

Originally posted by McP
Anyway, the fact with I agree with, is that ROTS Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in galactic history. Before he reached his reached his peak, Plagueis was.

That's a fair and valid viewpoint.

Originally posted by McP
Bane can't even hope, to defeat Sidious. Just as Sidious' hype is exaggerated, Bane's is as well. The fact is, that most of his feats were on DS' nexuses. You can ingore my arguments, that Bane couldn't overpower Zannah with his FL, but it only proves that it wasn't that strong. Zannah herself admited, that she wasn't a saber specialist (which would be necessary to defend against lightning if Sidious' caliber). Sarro, Lsu, Bane, and possibly Kas'Im were her superior. And this is really pathetic, to assume that those group of fighters was comperable to the best duelists of the Clone Wars era, like Sidious, Yoda, Dooku, Windu, Anakin, Obi-Wan and Maul.

That his feats were on nexus' has no baring on Bane's power. It's just an unfortunate motif of the authors.

Or it proves that Zannah is stronger than people think. I don't see Zannah's saber skills as related to her ability to block lightning, I think that's more closely tied into her power. Power needed to contain and direct the lightning or to amp herself up to successfully block it. And I highly doubt Sarro, Lsu or Kas'im were her superior's in saber combat as of DoE. All of them were inferior to Bane and Zannah was much closer to Bane than any other were, based on her fight with him.

And I personally don't see why it'd necessarily be pathetic to compare the best duelists of the Bane era to the Clone Wars era. Other than Yoda and Sidious of course.

Originally posted by McP
Back to FL, you also pointed, that Sidious catched Yoda off guard. That's not true. Yoda was on the edge of platform, and that may be the reason. But he was fully guarded just before Sidious used his FL.
Also, Mace on the screen was able to defend himself against Sidious FL only because Sidious wasn't using his full power. Lucas himself admited, that Sidious was faking. If he would not, Stover's novel is the only alternative answer - Mace would be pushed to his limits, and would be finally overhelmed if Sidious would decided to not stop attacking him.

Bane's lightning is far inferior to Sidious'.

Yoda must have been off-guard or tired or something. In the script he'd previously been able to bend Sidious' lightning back on him no problems. So there should be a factor that explains why he succeeded before but failed afterwards. Admittedly him being tired might be more likely, but even then he did manage to harder job of blocking Sidious' lightning with his hands afterwards so who knows.

I don't see how we can use the novel as evidence over the movies. The movies are the highest canon, the novels are only companion pieces to them. If there's a contradiction like this, the movie version is more accurate. Also just because Sidious was faking having no more power doesn't mean he was faking being unable to overpower Mace.

Kas' im more skilled than Darth Maul? wow. I won't even bother after reading that.

I said arguably. It's not so ridiculous, Kas'im spent decades perfecting the blade in all aspects.

Darth Maul is essentially confirmed to be the greatest Sith Warrior ever up till that point. Having technical mastery is great but that does not reflect natural ability, talent and skill.

Darth Maul is at the least highly proficient in every form, A confirmed master in multiple of them. Stated to be one of the most lethal saberstaff masters ever, which impressed Darth Plagueis. He is essentially unparalleled beyond Sidious himself, whom Bane doesn't begin to compare to.

Kills:

Black Sun(twice).
Qui-Gon Jinn.
Anoon Bondara.
Sun Guard.
Assassin Droids.

Martial victories:
Asajj Ventress.
TCW Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Savage Opress.

Martial Equals:
Darth Vader
Mace Windu

Significant losses:
Darth Sidious (Twice)
TPM Kenobi

That list of opponents is far more impressive than Zannah, Kas'im and Lsu.

@Neph

I coulnd't belive, that you agreed with me in so much points.

Anyway, I'm not using Stover's novel over ROTS movie as an evidence. I just use Stover's nove as "what if?".
Stover's novel is very good book, argubly even better then the movie, with all of this scenes, that were cut off from the movie (delegation 2000 etc).
But it reallu suck as source of evidences on that forum. Each fight in that book is oposite to those in the movie.
Agen and Saesee were killed by surprise in the book, while they were just killed in the movie.
Dooku coudln't compete with Anakin's Djem So, and barely could overpower Kenobi's defense physically at the end. And he was unable to fight them both at once. In the movie he could fight them both at once, and was able to defend himself quite comfortably. He also bested Obi by using the Force (and a moment before he outmaneuvered tem in a saberlock). Anakin was able to defeat Dooku only because his mind was at least a bit clear, and thanks to rage he was able to use much of his power.
Yoda faild to defeat Palpatine, he admited that Palpatine was stronger, and Yoda lost most of his energy while Palpatine lost almost nothing. Effect of that was, that Palpatine was faster and was able to hit Yoda with his FL in the senate's building. in the movie, Yoda was equal to Sidious to the very end (and perhaps even a bit stronger, sice it looks like he was overpowering him in their Force battle at the end).
And Anakin vs Obi-wan's fight in the book.... just suck.

About Zannah vs Bane:
As I remember, there was a quote in the DoE, that says that Zannah acknowledged, that Bane fought better then ever (even better then in RoT). Zannah was stronger then before at that point, so it's save to assume, that DoE Bane > Sarro in a swordsmanship. Technical compression him to the Lsu is still an unknown.
I also think, that Zannah wasn't that good duelist, even at the end of DoE. She was just familiar with his fighting style, which enabled her to fight him quite equally in a duel (like Obi and Ani, its obvious that Anakin was much better then Obi-Wan; the same might be told about Mace and Depa).
I agree, that mastery in using the saber alone, is not enought to defend against a high level of FL. One needs to great kills in the Force and saber, to successfully defend against that.
I really doubt, that Zannah would be able to defend herself against Sidious FL, even for a while.

It's also sad, that all of Bane's feats are from nexuses. But - as I remeber - there is one quote of Drew, when he puts Vader, Bane and Revan in the same league.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Darth Maul is essentially confirmed to be the greatest Sith Warrior ever up till that point.

Hahaha, what? No he isn't. Malgus would take a steamy dump on him, bro. Maul is one of the best warriors up to that point, nothing more.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Having technical mastery is great but that does not reflect natural ability, talent and skill.

Well Kas'im mastered all the lightsaber forms in a few years. Maul mastered, what, 3? In a decade. So it's not as if Maul's natural talent is vastly greater than Kas'im's is. And Kas'im had several decades more than Maul did to hone his talents. It also takes a great degree of natural aptitude, understanding and ability to be able to create sequences and moves for the forms like Kas'im did. For multiple different styles as well btw, single saber, double and dual at least, possibly whips as well.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Darth Maul is at the least highly proficient in every form, A confirmed master in multiple of them. Stated to be one of the most lethal saberstaff masters ever, which impressed Darth Plagueis. He is essentially unparalleled beyond Sidious himself, whom Bane doesn't begin to compare to.

I wasn't aware he was proficient in all of them. Got a quote for that?

I completely fail to see how being a master of multiple forms and being stated (by whom?) to be one of the best saberstaff users makes him unparalleled. That's kind of nonsensical, Maul has been "paralleled" before and there are people lesser than Sidious who are greater than him.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Kills:

Black Sun(twice).
Qui-Gon Jinn.
Anoon Bondara.
Sun Guard.
Assassin Droids.

Martial victories:
Asajj Ventress.
TCW Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Savage Opress.

Martial Equals:
Darth Vader
Mace Windu

Significant losses:
Darth Sidious (Twice)
TPM Kenobi

That list of opponents is far more impressive than Zannah, Kas'im and Lsu.

He didn't beat Ventress and he only beat Savage in a training session, which frankly was inconsistent since he's never replicated that level of dominance over others on Savage's level before or since. And you failed to mention him losing to Kenobi with Savage's help. So in total I don't see how that list eclipses Bane's. The best person he's beaten has been a concussed TCW Kenobi. Big whoop.

This thread.

I know right, a half dozen people saying Bane sucks and loses to Maul and one or two guys arguing otherwise? Total Bane wankfest.

Nah, it's just the misinformation on Maul being spread on both sides.

Oh.

Ok, sure. At least Marco isn't here, right?