Originally posted by DarkSaint85Ares is somewhat bulletproof as he should be. Warmachine just shot him with bullets, that's all. And those other scans doesn't prove that Spidey won't affect him. Spidey has a history of affecting beings on Ares level and above. Spidey is bloodlusted here. His strength will be operating at a maximum. He can easily and significantly affect Ares here. It would just take more blows than Hercules.
Check my scans out. I will repost them here for your edification.Short synopsis: Hercules swings him into a missile, which explodes. He is unphased, even displaying sufficient alacrity to seize andother missile out of the air, and throw it into Herc's face. With a pithy one-liner. Herc continues smashing Ares, hitting him 14 times through the Helicarrier. Ares just picks him up, and throws him (in the 4th panel, 3rd scan). When I used it, I meant that he was not affected by it. Bloodied, yes, but still having the presence of mind to catch missiles out of the air, catch Herc etc.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111134695/3589404-7085178738-12091.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111134695/3589405-8353418630-12091.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111134695/3589406-3086720320-12091.jpgNo selling would be someone like War MAchine, who had been unloading everything at him at point blank range.:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/23374/3372410-war+machine+003+pg+11.jpgIf he was not being KOed, I'd use his fight against Sentry who was Voiding out. So bloodied, but still talking and fighting back(until he was WTFStomped):
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6025/siege2legioncps017.jpg
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2566/siege2legioncps018.jpg
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/2244/siege2legioncps020.jpg
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3647/siege2legioncps021.jpg
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/1962/siege2legioncps022.jpg
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You mean in the 90s when Zeus stripped him of his immortality?
How would that matter if Zeus still has yet to restore Herc's immortality? When he is immortal he is clearly more powerful than when he is not. Again this is important, because what we may be seeing in his battle with Ares may not be a Hercules capable of taking on Thor, or a mindless Hulk (or any Banner Hulk).
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Jeez. Now post posts of Spideys piercing durability lol.Seeing as, you know, he carries a giant axe.
If Ares hits him it's over. We all know this. However it can be argued that hitting Spiderman may not happen. There is a probability that it can, but there is a probability that it may not. I can agree that this fight could go either way, but too many people are saying that Spidey would never be able to hurt Ares. This goes against his past showings though. I have to get going.
Originally posted by Stoic
How would that matter if Zeus still has yet to restore Herc's immortality? When he is immortal he is clearly more powerful than when he is not. Again this is important, because what we may be seeing in his battle with Ares may not be a Hercules capable of taking on Thor, or a mindless Hulk (or any Banner Hulk).
See mindset and Sins posts.
It matters because I can post loads of strength feats since the 90s anyways.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Well missiles have both burning and concussive properties to them. If Spidey has hurt other beings who can lol "tank" missiles then why not?
Excellent.So Spiderman can CONSISTENTLY punch, and his 10th (or 20th) punch would be as powerful as his 1st, when he was fresh?
So, 15 punches, AND a missile (in short order; I am ignoring the later missiles and punches) DIDN'T KO him.
15 x 5 = 75 punches.
How many Spidey punches = one missile to the face? Bear in mind, immediately after getting a face full of missile, Ares immediately grabbed another out of the air and redirected it. So wasn't even dazed.
Let's say a missile = 25 punches. So a nice round 100.
Spidey will throw 100 bloodlusted, top strength punches CONSISTENTLY, without tiring, and his 100th punch would be as powerful as his 1st.
IT STILL WON'T PUT ARES DOWN.
This ignores of course any energy expenditure in Spidey jumping/dodging. And Ares was as fresh as ever after this.
P.S. I would say a missile of that size = 1/2 of an average hercules punch (concussive ability only).
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
See mindset and Sins posts.It matters because I can post loads of strength feats since the 90s anyways.
On my phone for now. How is it that Hercules is mortal now, but then he was immortal? I can see why people have stopped debating on forums about these characters, because the writers know nothing about the history of the characters. Unless of course Zeus restored his immortality, only to remove it once again??? Shoot, gotta go again.
Ok. So without any leaping amd dodging (being kind to Spiderman amd assuming Ares just stands there and makes no attempt), Spidey will throw 77.5 (or let's say 80) punches, against a guy who has bulletproof skin (so harder than bullets, which Spidey isn't, incidentally)?
That still would not put Ares down. Because as the scans show, he was still in fighting condition afterwards.
So you reckon, had Herc thrown...4 more punches, Ares would have been affected? So a round 100 Spidey punches?
You'd need to show proof of that. Ares was fighting perfectly well after that barrage, no hint of being dazed etc. So even after throwing 80 punches, Ares would be fine.
That ignores his leaping about of course. And all the times Spidey gets tired after throwing fewer than 80 top punches.
Originally posted by Stoic
On my phone for now. How is it that Hercules is mortal now, but then he was immortal? I can see why people have stopped debating on forums about these characters, because the writers know nothing about the history of the characters. Unless of course Zeus restored his immortality, only to remove it once again??? Shoot, gotta go again.
Have fun.
He lost it after Chaos War.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Good post, which surprised (shocked?) me 👆 😛Bad analogy with Wolvy, btw - mainly because of his HF 😛, but I take your point. I guess that's why I brought up the Herc showing, and am focussing on that one - NOT because it is his sole high showing (as Stoic says), but because it's the most drawn out sequence of someone punching him over and over again (I counted 15 times). This comes AFTER a missile to the face. And after all that, Ares just got right back up and was beating Herc up, with no apparent problems.
With his other fights, there weren't any drawn out fights where he got punched over and over again like that, which is why it's being used. Spider blitzed Masterson seven times, sending him reeling. Laid Firelord out with 9 hits.
Herc failed with 15. And a missile. And further other hits. So for your analogy to work, it would be more akin to:
Hulk couldn't KO Wolvy with 20 punches. But Luke has KO'd Daken/Deadpool with 5 punches, therefore, he would KO Wolvy.
I get what you're saying and it is an impressive durability showing. I'm just saying... Pete himself took a couple of hits from a royally pissed off Herc (among many other top tiers) and kept on fighting. But I would never imply that he can just stand there and no sell say Daredevil's punches. Is all I'm saying. I believe same would apply for Spidey/Ares.
I always thought that Masterson scene is a whole lot more than seven punches. Blitzes like that usually imply "crapload" of punches even if there are fewer sound effects. Pete is literally drawn as a small hurricane there and Thor's inner monologue implies that it's more than that. As for Firelord.. I actually find it a bit irritating - The fight is mentioned among the KMC rules as the prime example of unusable PIS fights, it's a common knowledge at this point. What many don't know is that the fight actually lasted for two entire issues and before unleashing that blitz on a holding back Firelord Pete had him dive head first from a bridge, got him ran over by a speeding train and blew a gas station in his face. And it was mentioned several times throughout the story that he only survived because Firelord was holding back big time. Compared to Black Panther putting Surfer in an armbar the Firelord incident is a fairly modest example of PIS. And nobody really ever uses it as a serious argument in a vs forum to prove that Spider-man can take on high-heralds h2h. Most of the time it is mentioned as a joke. Thing is outside of that PIS showing Pete has many where he is consistently shown hurting character out of his weight class. Those are the ones I base my opinion on.
Originally posted by Sin I AMUnless I misread your previous post you said that he only beat Titania because of hear fear of spiders. And it is not the case since her fear of spiders is a result of him beating her. In other words he beat her in a fair fight with no context being left out.
I know that. She kept losing to him until Creel forced her to face her fear. That's literally what i just said
Originally posted by Sin I AMI have to disagree. Unless those posters imply that he consistently beats top tier bricks that is, which we all know he doesn't. He does however go "toe to toe" with bricks and does well on occasions. On fewer occasions gets an upper hand. And in most cases manages to both take and dish out some damage even when fighting characters on Ares level. IMO it is enough to imply that Ares is not going to no-sell his attacks. That combined with superior speed, agility, spider sense and webbing capable of temporarily restraining class 70 characters at the very least makes it a decent fight.
u could literally dissect every match where he went "toe to toe" with top bricks and it wouldn't be anywhere near as impressive as the scan posters
Originally posted by Stoic
Spiderman has used that tactic against robotic opponents. Webbing them up, and turning them into wrecking ball type of attacks. Not sure about organic foes though, but it is a tactic that can be used since Peter is a very smart character. I mean do you believe that he would be unable to come up with something as simple as that?
So maybe he'd use it in this situation, maybe he wouldn't.
Originally posted by Stoic
Goliath was classified as a class 100 but well below Hercules in terms of lifting feats. Tiger Shark, Mr. Hyde, and the others were never placed withing the class 100 tier, but then again neither was Ares. However handbooks are pure BS when it comes to lifting feats, because there are times that the characters that are said to be well below class 100, were capable of exceeding that very benchmark. Then again Spiderman has exceeded the class 10-25 ton range as well several times himself.
The handbooks do more of a hierarchy than true tonnage rankings. At least you look at it that way, and it's much better. Although the lower it is, the closer it is to tonnage by and large. Before your reply, cdtm gave some stuff for him.
Originally posted by cdtm
Atlas also finished Hype and Iron Man, beat Genis to death, and staggered Moonstone with two stones.
On Tiger Shark I'm going more off memory of him being a Namor foe and his bio type stuff. I admit I could be wrong. But you're ignoring the point that it's far more muscle than you're willing to admit. Or perhaps realize.
Originally posted by Stoic
Hercules was clearly fine when he marched in headstrong to take on the MOE all by himself, but they were quickly able to overwhelm him, and KO him. They then continued to beat him into a coma. I mean if you want a play by play of what actually happened. My point was that weaker characters than Hercules were able to easily compromise his durability, and hurt him. Make no mistake though, Hercules was far stronger than the strongest MOE member there (Goliath). This was later confirmed. Eric Josten known as Atlas is/was that very same Goliath, and Hercules is far superior to him. You get what I'm saying? The same applies to Spiderman hurting guys well above his weight class. To add to this point, Thor then goes in single handed, and puts an end to the guys that easily defeated Hercules, and Thor and Herc are very close in physical stats. Anyway, shit happens.
You're really unaware that Hercules was drunk(and possibly drugged, not sure and just skimmed through when rechecking)? That played quite a role in him being defeated. And they(as a group) beat him WHEN HE WAS ALREADY UNCONSCIOUS AND UNABLE TO BRACE HIMSELF. No matter how much you reiterate your argument, it doesn't work unless you ignore all context. You want me to ask Bada to give a mod ruling on it being a valid or invalid comparison?
Originally posted by carver9
So it ends in a stalemate since either can't put the other down. Spiderman has withstood punches from being stronger than Ares (and Ares will not land many blows anyways, if any at all) and Spiderman can't drop Ares since Ares withstood blows from powerful beings and well. The battle of two Juggernauts.
Originally posted by carver9
Weren't trying? When were they trying to outright kill someone? Also, the ending blast that Pete was in took out both Phoenix users. High showings for the win.
I'll keep these quotes handy to haunt you in the future.
