Originally posted by Selenial
Watching Neph debate Surik is like watching my 3 year old debate neuroscience.I find it frankly disgusting that he can insult Carthage's intelligence, when Carthage is happy to concede on characters he's uneducated on (IE Surik, to me) and yet Neph can debate a character 100 times and not change a single word of his arguments.
This is honestly an embarrassing display.
The Jedi take this.
Originally posted by Nephthys
The point is Meetra's best feats took place on a stronger nexus. Anything she could do on Malachor, she could do on Dromund Kaas. Any amp Traya had, so did Nyriss to a lesser extent. And Nyriss still stomped her.Don't be ridiculous. It takes a lot more power to burn flesh enough that the person resembles a withered husk than it would to merely kill them. We're talking multiple times more power. Suggesting that she couldn't kill off of one is clownish.
I accept your concession. 👆
Surely that was prime Surik. Unless I'm unaware of her ragdolling Krayt Dragons at some point after it.
Originally posted by Selenial
Watching Neph debate Surik is like watching my 3 year old debate neuroscience.I find it frankly disgusting that he can insult Carthage's intelligence, when Carthage is happy to concede on characters he's uneducated on (IE Surik, to me) and yet Neph can debate a character 100 times and not change a single word of his arguments.
This is honestly an embarrassing display.
The Jedi take this.
I'm hardly uneducated. I've played the game multiple time and read and re-read an in-depth lets play of it. I've debated it extensively for half a decade. In fact, if I say so myself I was the foremost debater and champion of Kotor 2 for quite some time and repeatedly explained matters to do with it to other posters. That you disagree with me on the subject shouldn't cause you to doubt my mental faculties.
Also I have changed my arguments. I few years ago I argued that the Exile was just as powerful or more powerful than Revan and that she was basically one of the top 5 Jedi ever. You can thank Karpyshan for changing my mind.
Originally posted by Stigma
Well... that's a lot of words wasted to covertly say you cannot prove how powerful Nyriss is off nexus.I accept your concession. 👆
And that's a small number of words to say that you cannot refute my point. If you're not going to attempt an argument I suggest you just don't talk at all.
By saying it's never been quantified I meant that you can't say Nyriss can only perform such a feat because she's at DK. It's ridiculous to assume her lightning wouldn't be able to at least kill someone off a nexus. It's even more ridiculous to assume her lightning isn't powerful and is only powerful because she's in a nexus. Your logic is flawed, not mine. Oh and, you carefully ignored the fact (which I pointed out) that Scourge was also being amped. He didn't do shit against Nyriss, and according to the novel, Meetra and him were roughly equals at the time. The same Meetra that, as Neph pointed out, still toyed Sion, Traya, and a shitload of Sith assassins on Malachor V, arguably a more powerful nexus than DK.
Also I find it laughable that you guys say Neph is a shit debater. Especially because it's you guys who're saying this.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Surely that was prime Surik. Unless I'm unaware of her ragdolling Krayt Dragons at some point after it.I'm hardly uneducated. I've played the game multiple time and read and re-read an in-depth lets play of it. I've debated it extensively for half a decade. In fact, if I say so myself I was the foremost debater and champion of Kotor 2 for quite some time and repeatedly explained matters to do with it to other posters. That you disagree with me on the subject shouldn't cause you to doubt my mental faculties.
Also I have changed my arguments. I few years ago I argued that the Exile was just as powerful or more powerful than Revan and that she was basically one of the top 5 Jedi ever. You can thank Karpyshan for changing my mind.
I frankly don't give a flying **** what you've said about her in the past, your arguments now are ridiculous and have been refuted on several occasions. The fact of the matter is that the Jedi seen in the Revan novel had no wound. She lacked what made her immensely powerful in Kotor 2.
You say she accomplished better on Dromund Kaas as a way of somehow placing Nyriss above Traya and Sion combined. That's stupid. She had her wound on Malachor, which allowed her to feed off force users she faced, it made her strong.
In fact you've just admitted to me that you believe the Jedi take this. Whether or not Karpyshit's Surik was nerfed, her original Kotor 2 power level remains unchanged, as the loss of her wound is a very plausible explanation for the immense power drop.
Originally posted by Nephthys
And that's a small number of words
Yet both of these concepts are lost on you so let's move on, shall we.
Originally posted by Nephthys
to say that you cannot refute my point. If you're not going to attempt an argument I suggest you just don't talk at all.
You cannot prove how powerful Nyriss is off nexus and arbitrary claims and speculation will take you nowhere. GG. 👆
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
By saying it's never been quantified I meant that you can't say Nyriss can only perform such a feat because she's at DK. It's ridiculous to assume her lightning wouldn't be able to at least kill someone off a nexus. It's even more ridiculous to assume her lightning isn't powerful and is only powerful because she's in a nexus. Your logic is flawed, not mine. Oh and, you carefully ignored the fact (which I pointed out) that Scourge was also being amped. He didn't do shit against Nyriss, and according to the novel, Meetra and him were roughly equals at the time. The same Meetra that, as Neph pointed out, still toyed Sion, Traya, and a shitload of Sith assassins on Malachor V, arguably a more powerful nexus than DK.Also I find it laughable that you guys say Neph is a shit debater. Especially because it's you guys who're saying this.
Let me break it down to you in the simplest terms:
Imagine you have a car. You have some gasoline in the tank. You go to the gas station, fill it up and then drive 500 miles with that.
Now, similar situation.
You have a car. You have some gasoline in the tank. But you do not go to fill it up at the station. Can you also drive 500 miles with that? Or 450 miles? Or 100 miles?
Of course the answer is: We cannot tell because 1) we don't know how much gas you had in your tank in the first place, and b) how much gas you put in at the gas station.
What is certain is only c) that you did put some more gasoline.
Analogus situation is with a DS nexus.
A force user has some power, DS fills him/her up with some more.
Is it reasonable to claim that s/he can perform on similar/the same level without DS amp?
No, because the aformentioned reasons apply. The answer is again: We don't know.
Capiche?
Now, what some of the "debaters" here would like us to do is to say:
"sure, the amp surely must be small enough.... or, sure, the amp is not that significant, probably. Therefore we can safely assume that *insert our arbitrary estimate*"
Faulty logic at its best.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Thats a terrible analogy. Every Force user has a full tank to begin with.
Let's assume Sidious is 100, while Vader is 80 based on their showings on a neutral ground. Yet give Vader a gas station a DS nexus that gives him an extra 10-20 percent and he gets a notch higher.
The problem is when you have a character whose only feats are when s/he gets an amp. There is simply no way to tell what is his/her base power.
My point stands.
EDIT: Anyways, I'm off to a class. Take care.
Except we have a very clear basis for comparison in her and Traya's showings against Meetra. And we can easily extrapolate feats by simply factoring in a nexus to some degree. We know that a nexus doesn't make you 5 times as powerful as your analogy suggests is plausible, its a very small increase.
Anyway, I'm going to respond to everything l8er in the day, since I feel like crap from staying up till 6 last night.
Originally posted by Nephthys
And we can easily extrapolate feats by simply factoring in a nexus to some degree.
Anyways, this is precisely the point.
You say DS nexs "gives 10 percent amp", I say "it gives 15 percent amp" some other person says "it gives 1 percent amp"...
There is simply no way to judge it apart from just stating one's arbitrary claim. This will not do.
Ok, I really need to go now. Till later.
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
Lmao, now it turns out you attempt to mock me with some 2nd grader analogy 'to make me understand'. .
Originally posted by Col. ValerianGet over yourself, private. It's not about you, but about terrible reasoning some people display here.
Lol @ your sad attempt to insult me. Bad analogy. There's not much more to it. Neph agrees, as I'm sure most other people would. I will also respond later during the day. Let's try to keep things civil.
Again, it's elementary logic:
A = force user
B = an amp
Let's say A = 90, B = 10
A + B = 100 (force user and amp)
Gee, I wonder what happens if we don't know how powerful a force user is at base.
A = we don't know
B = 10
A + B = ? + 10
In other words, * insert any number you like* which is exactly what you and Neph are trying to do. You want to pass whatever you feel A should be at baseline as a fact.
WTF is wrong with you? Are you trolling? Srs.