Originally posted by Galan007This actually proves that it was the entire race that Doom destroyed. Doom started fighting 5 of them at one time then IN A LATER scene, Doom says they keep coming. Then later Doom says that the Celestials are no more. The beings who monitor the universe are no more. The writers intentions are clear. We just have to assume all the Celestials look similar, or it was shitty art. Anyways, In 400 years I assume that Doom didn't fight them in one small place and he didn't fight them all at once.
^ We saw Doom fighting the same 5 Celestials the entire issue. When the fight concluded, we see the remains of those same 5 Celestials floating in space, and Doom merely says: "The Celestials are no more."Here is the entire Doom/Celestials sequence that we were shown:
http://i.imgur.com/kao49V2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fwF3KQL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/K052vdU.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TRXWwWU.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wkQ7voC.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/jFglbOj.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xOj1xQD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/EepR1h6.jpg
Originally posted by Galan007lol I implied that it is canon, just not usable on kmc. Just like JL and Avengers are canon but not usable. Why did you think I implied not canon when I explicitly stated that being canon is irrelevant here?
What Ifs=alternate universes. They are canon to the Marvel multiverse as a whole, which means they are canon to Celestials as a whole.
Originally posted by h1a8
This actually proves that it was the entire race that Doom destroyed. Doom started fighting 5 of them at one time then IN A LATER scene, Doom says they keep coming. Then later Doom says that the Celestials are no more. The beings who monitor the universe are no more. The writers intentions are clear. We just have to assume all the Celestials look similar, or it was shitty art. Anyways, In 400 years I assume that Doom didn't fight them in one small place and he didn't fight them all at once.
👆
Originally posted by ODG
It the enchantment were so random or so simple, Odin would not have forbidden/decried its use with such foreboding.The trivialization here seems petty.
Theres nothing petty about it...
Its called recognizing the massive Asgardian wank Marvel tries to mask as good writing...
Dont forget the events in Thor 300; Odin and Zeus didnt even know the Celestials were present until Gaia alerted Odin to the Aliens on Earth...
Odin, Zeus, and Vishnu then go to confront Arishem (who wont even directly speak with them as its beneath him to do so) and prove to be horribly underpowered compared to Arishem...
They even got on their knees and vowed to stay out of Celestial business because Arishem threatened to lock them out of their realms and the Skyfathers couldnt do a dam thing about it...
Now all of a sudden Marvel wants us to buy that Odin has a spell that could have wrecked Arishem all along!?
Its BS writing...
You are pro Odin/Asgard/Thor ODG so maybe you cant see the horrible Asgardian wankery at play here, but many of us can...
Odin having a Celestial killing spell is Asgardian wank at its finest...
Originally posted by TheLordofMurderOdin having a Celestial killing spell is Asgardian wank at its finest...
i tend to agree. without actually SEEING the ramifications of the spell, it's all just hearsay and no substance. i could stomach it if say, it required so much power that a bunch of asgardians died because it required their life forces or something. but it seems very much pis...
as regards the thread in general though--i disagree with the general premise. comics have evolved, the writing has evolved, the characters have evolved and the readers have evolved. the celestials still get their respect. they may not be the enigma they used to be, but we know more about the multiverse than ever and the threats out there are greater than they have ever been. odin was once at the top of the food chain before galactus. things change. so long as they are kept relevant and powerful, i have no problem with their recent depiction.
Originally posted by Galan007
Can't say much about Beyonder's power(because it is occasionally written laughably low in some alternate universes),
In that same what if, Doom said that he was the mightiest being in this or any universe (just like in the original SW). If he was intended to be weak, i don't think that the writer would have included that statement. Plus, the existence of battleworld establishes the alt. Beyonder as being capable of destroying a galaxy.
Originally posted by leonidas
i tend to agree. without actually SEEING the ramifications of the spell, it's all just hearsay and no substance. i could stomach it if say, it required so much power that a bunch of asgardians died because it required their life forces or something. but it seems very much pis...as regards the thread in general though--i disagree with the general premise. comics have evolved, the writing has evolved, the characters have evolved and the readers have evolved. the celestials still get their respect. they may not be the enigma they used to be, but we know more about the multiverse than ever and the threats out there are greater than they have ever been. odin was once at the top of the food chain before galactus. things change. so long as they are kept relevant and powerful, i have no problem with their recent depiction.
Originally posted by h1a8As I have repeatedly stated: We see Doom fighting THE SAME FIVE CELESTIALS the entire issue. At the end of the issue, only the remains of THE SAME FIVE CELESTIALS was shown.
This actually proves that it was the entire race that Doom destroyed. Doom started fighting 5 of them at one time then IN A LATER scene, Doom says they keep coming. Then later Doom says that the Celestials are no more. The beings who monitor the universe are no more. The writers intentions are clear. We just have to assume all the Celestials look similar, or it was shitty art. Anyways, In 400 years I assume that Doom didn't fight them in one small place and he didn't fight them all at once.
"They keep coming"= THE SAME FIVE CELESTIALS continuing to fight him. I know this because THE SAME FIVE CELESTIALS were explicitly shown when that statement was made.
"The Celestials are no more" = Doom finally killing THE SAME FIVE CELESTIALS after fighting them for over 400 years. I know this because only the remains of THE SAME FIVE CELESTIALS was explicitly shown when that statement was made.
It is rather laughable to assume the writer's intent was to have Doom inextricably kill the entire race of Celestials off-panel, and never once make an explicit statement to that effect... Especially when the writer only depicted Doom fighting FIVE Celestials the entire issue... THE SAME FIVE CELESTIALS, in fact.
Stevie-f*cking-Wonder could see the trend here. 👆
Originally posted by Galan007
As I have repeatedly stated: We see Doom fighting [b]THE SAME FIVE CELESTIALS the entire issue. At the end of the issue, only the remains of THE SAME FIVE CELESTIALS was shown."They keep coming"= THE SAME FIVE CELESTIALS continuing to fight him. I know this because THE SAME FIVE CELESTIALS were explicitly shown when that statement was made.
"The Celestials are no more" = Doom finally killing THE SAME FIVE CELESTIALS after fighting them for over 400 years. I know this because only the remains of THE SAME FIVE CELESTIALS was explicitly shown when that statement was made.
It is rather laughable to assume the writer's intent was to have Doom inextricably kill the entire race of Celestials off-panel, and never once make an explicit statement to that effect... Especially when the writer only depicted Doom fighting FIVE Celestials the entire issue... THE SAME FIVE CELESTIALS, in fact.
Stevie-f*cking-Wonder could see the trend here. 👆 [/B]
Lol... 👆
I think that Odin despite his showing in Thor 300,getting his ass kicked by the Celestials.Is cool that he or Loki found this book in his library.To cast a spell to pierce Celestial armor is cool as shit!They made the gods look so bad,back in the 70`s.They deserved the dish of vengeance that is best served cold!
Originally posted by Galan007
As I have repeatedly stated: We see Doom fighting [b]THE SAME FIVE CELESTIALS the entire issue. At the end of the issue, only the remains of THE SAME FIVE CELESTIALS was shown."They keep coming"= THE SAME FIVE CELESTIALS continuing to fight him. I know this because THE SAME FIVE CELESTIALS were explicitly shown when that statement was made.
"The Celestials are no more" = Doom finally killing THE SAME FIVE CELESTIALS after fighting them for over 400 years. I know this because only the remains of THE SAME FIVE CELESTIALS was explicitly shown when that statement was made.
It is rather laughable to assume the writer's intent was to have Doom inextricably kill the entire race of Celestials off-panel, and never once make an explicit statement to that effect... Especially when the writer only depicted Doom fighting FIVE Celestials the entire issue... THE SAME FIVE CELESTIALS, in fact.
Stevie-f*cking-Wonder could see the trend here. 👆 [/B]
so, reading between the lines, what you're saying is he fought and wiped out the entire race of celestials..... 😖hifty:
#gotit
Hey there yall! ... Galan is right, "What Ifs' are actual alternate realities in the multiverse, this is: Earth-90251,
and for the most part, they're really a depiction of 616 cats without mainstream constrictions/stipulations hindering them.
But, there are many stories that present moments that make no sense.
This particular "What If" ... imo, is one of them.
Doom shouldn't have taken so long to beat 5 Celestials, especially when Bollers (writer) had Doom saying:
[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/22659832_Doom_Beyonder_Powa.jpg]
And that was just with Beyonder's power. Yet, 5 Celestials? ... 😐
*** It's not like these were "special" "unknown" Celestials like a 'Scathan' who came out of nowhere,
no,
these were the same run of the mill cats we seen since the mid-1970's:
Arishem-Ziran-Gammenon-Hargen-Tefral
I see no reason why these 616 copies are special, so Bollers failed imo.
--------------------------------------------------
A few other things that make ya go ... hm
Boller's IG can jump out of Earth-90251 into other realities like this Hell Dimension:
[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/22659836_Doom_Beyonder-IG_Powa.jpg]
We know this a realm outside 90251 cause it would take an "inter-dimensional portal" for a normal person to get there:
[img=http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/22659937_Doom_Beyonder-IG_Powa3.jpg]
--------------------------------------------------
Btw. Doom Beyonder-IG empowered couldn't perma-kill a Hell lord:
[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/22659838_Doom_Beyonder-IG_Powa2.jpg]
![[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/22659832_Doom_Beyonder_Powa.jpg]](http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/22659832/Doom_Beyonder_Powa.jpg.html){kind=link}
![[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/22659836_Doom_Beyonder-IG_Powa.jpg]](http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/22659836/Doom_Beyonder-IG_Powa.jpg.html){kind=link}
![[img=http://s5d1.turboimagehost.com/t/22659937_Doom_Beyonder-IG_Powa3.jpg]](http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/22659937/Doom_Beyonder-IG_Powa3.jpg.html){kind=link}
![[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/22659838_Doom_Beyonder-IG_Powa2.jpg]](http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/22659838/Doom_Beyonder-IG_Powa2.jpg.html){kind=link}