MoS Superman vs Sentinels (DoFP)

Originally posted by Silent Master
Because even if the Sentinels could copy non-mutant powers, KT is still using a no limits fallacy by saying that just because they adapted to Colossus level strength they would be able to adapt to Superman's.

That is like saying that seeing someone lift 100lbs means that person could also lift 5,000lbs.

I agree. That's why I said that their powers would be nerfed, even if they copied his.

See, they wouldn't be copying his super strength, they'd be copying his cellular structure, which makes him a solar battery, and allows him to have massively amped physical abilities. However, they showed difficulty with energy absorption, at the levels of the mutants in the movie, although they did overcome them. However, there is a BIG difference in absorbing enough energy to create a jet-sized explosion, and fueling a STAR. Meaning their powers would be WAYY lower than his, although they'd still be MUCH more powerful. However, their numbers are what might be able to pull them a win here, although it's still very doubtful.

Originally posted by Robtard
You're using a no limit fallacy again. "If they can adapt to mutant powers, they can adapt to anything." It's specifically stated and shown that they adapt to mutant powers. If you think they can adapt to something else, no problem, but it's for you to prove it. That's how the burden of proof works.

Incorrect. They adapt to mutant powers, that would be the [active] mutant x-gene in the person.

Someone making a poorly thought-out fight isn't new in here. It happens.

They have to experience the power first, so I was spot on. If they just adapted to the mutant x gene.. as soon as they appeared they would be adapted. So the x gene as was stated was used for locating and separating them from humans THEN would adapt. It was shown that way over and over. They weren't adapting to the mutant x gene... if that was the case they would show up already adapted. They clearly couldn't do so and had to experience exactly what power the x gene produced in this mutant.

Your last line was funny though.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
I agree. That's why I said that their powers would be nerfed, even if they copied his.

See, they wouldn't be copying his super strength, they'd be copying his cellular structure, which makes him a solar battery, and allows him to have massively amped physical abilities. However, they showed difficulty with energy absorption, at the levels of the mutants in the movie, although they did overcome them. However, there is a BIG difference in absorbing enough energy to create a jet-sized explosion, and fueling a STAR. Meaning their powers would be WAYY lower than his, although they'd still be MUCH more powerful. However, their numbers are what might be able to pull them a win here, although it's still very doubtful.

what do you mean they didn't adapt to strength. They adapted to somebody super stronger in colossus and torn him in half. They clearly had no issue adapting to somebody really strong and durable

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
They have to experience the power first, so I was spot on. If they just adapted to the mutant x gene.. as soon as they appeared they would be adapted. So the x gene as was stated was used for locating and separating them from humans THEN would adapt. It was shown that way over and over. They weren't adapting to the mutant x gene... if that was the case they would show up already adapted. They clearly couldn't do so and had to experience exactly what power the x gene produced in this mutant.

Your last line was funny though.

Having to experience the power first doesn't change anything, they're still adapting to mutant powers because they're mutant powers (the X-gene) and that's what they were built to do, which was designed around using Raven's genetics (another mutant).

Glad you dropped the "they'll just adapt to Superman." nonsense 👆

Originally posted by Robtard
Having to experience the power first doesn't change anything, they're still adapting to mutant powers because they're mutant powers (the X-gene) and that's what they were built to do, which was designed around using Raven's genetics (another mutant).

Glad you dropped the "they'll just adapt to Superman." nonsense 👆

I never argued whether they could or not adapt to a kryptonian... Nobody would know for sure what they can or can't adapt to. I'm fine with them not being able to superman, what I've said and maintained.. is that the OP wants them to adapt to superman and thus they can for this thread. I've been very clear in this regard

We do know with 100% certainty what they can (and thereby can't) adapt too, as Xavier clearly stated "could adapt to any mutant power".

Wolverine's healing = Mutant Power = Sentinel adapts

Iceman's ice blasting = Mutant Power = Sentinel adapts

Superman powers = Alien cells that act as solar batteries which produce an assortment of abilities = not a mutant power = Sentinel can't adapt

HP Wizards = Magic = not a mutant power = Sentinel can't adapt

I could go on, but I think you get the idea.

edit: To further cement that "mutant power" is key to them adapting, an exploding X-Jet destroyed them (ie they didn't adapt), while they easily shrugged off the mutant's attacks.

Originally posted by Robtard
I could go on, but I think you get the idea

Are you sure that you're not giving him way too much credit?

😂

Originally posted by Silent Master
Are you sure that you're not giving him way too much credit?

Only time will tell.

Time always tells, and is usually correct when it comes to KT.

Time does not favor his rants.

Originally posted by Robtard
We do know with 100% certainty what they can (and thereby can't) adapt too, as Xavier clearly stated "could adapt to any mutant power".

Wolverine's healing = Mutant Power = Sentinel adapts

Iceman's ice blasting = Mutant Power = Sentinel adapts

Superman powers = Alien cells that act as solar batteries which produce an assortment of abilities = not a mutant power = Sentinel can't adapt

HP Wizards = Magic = not a mutant power = Sentinel can't adapt

I could go on, but I think you get the idea.

edit: To further cement that "mutant power" is key to them adapting, an exploding X-Jet destroyed them (ie they didn't adapt), while they easily shrugged off the mutant's attacks.

You're taking this too literally. What would be considered a mutant in X-men?

A strain of human, from a different planet, that can absorb yellow solar energy, due to its biology?

I venture a guess that it WOULD be considered a mutant. If nothing else, it serves logical that they could copy more than JUST a mutant X gene, considering they used Mystique's power, which allowed her to turn into any humanoid.

Basically, what you're arguing here is that the Sentinels couldn't mimic Superman's powers because he's an alien. If that's true though, then why could they adapt to Thor in the comics?

It's still possible that they couldn't mimic Superman's powers, but it's also possible that they COULD. What you have to understand is that Superman's powers are biological, and the Sentinels are able to adapt to a mutants BIOLOGY, as long as they are of the homo genus. Which Superman is. 👆

Ok but here we go by the MVF Golden Rule,

The MVF Golden Rule:
What is seen on screen is canon in these forums. If your character you wish to use has feats/actions/handicaps that contradict what that character did on screen (movie canon), then it is a violation and is illegal. MOVIE FEATS ONLY!

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Ok but here we go by the MVF Golden Rule,

The MVF Golden Rule:
What is seen on screen is canon in these forums. If your character you wish to use has feats/actions/handicaps that contradict what that character did on screen (movie canon), then it is a violation and is illegal. MOVIE FEATS ONLY!

I'm well aware. I brought up the comics to make a point.

The movie didn't have any feats to justify this fight in the first place, unless the Sentinels could copy Supermans powers.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
You're taking this too literally. What would be considered a mutant in X-men?

A strain of human, from a different planet, that can absorb yellow solar energy, due to its biology?

A mutant in someone who has the Mutant-X gene. The mutant cure in X3 surpressed that gene, which is why it depowered them. Clark has no Mutant-X gene, so he would not be considered a mutant. He is an alien from another planet, so he would be considered an alien from another planet.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta

I venture a guess that it WOULD be considered a mutant. If nothing else, it serves logical that they could copy more than JUST a mutant X gene, considering they used Mystique's power, which allowed her to turn into any humanoid.

See above about mutants specifically being identified by their Mutant-X gene. Not simply by being different to a normal human. If you do not posses the Mutant-X gene, you would not be considered the same species as they are, even if your biology is different to a normal human.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta

Basically, what you're arguing here is that the Sentinels couldn't mimic Superman's powers because he's an alien. If that's true though, then why could they adapt to Thor in the comics?

This is not the comics. What comic sentinels are capable or not capable of has no bearing on this match.

Originally posted by SSJGGogeta

It's still possible that they couldn't mimic Superman's powers, but it's also possible that they COULD. What you have to understand is that Superman's powers are biological, and the Sentinels are able to adapt to a mutants BIOLOGY, as long as they are of the homo genus. Which Superman is. 👆

If you want to claim they can adapt you have to PROVE it. You cannot ask others to prove the negative of a claim you made. And simply saying that they can adapt to Superman because he isn't human is nothing but speculation, and can be disregarded in this thread.

Also, even if Superman possessed the Mutant-X gene, their adaptation isn't a 100% power counter either, or they would have evolved the ability to nullify Blink's portals etc. So their powers had limits, even against actual mutants.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
A mutant in someone who has the Mutant-X gene. The mutant cure in X3 surpressed that gene, which is why it depowered them. Clark has no Mutant-X gene, so he would not be considered a mutant. He is an alien from another planet, so he would be considered an alien from another planet.

See above about mutants specifically being identified by their Mutant-X gene. Not simply by being different to a normal human. If you do not posses the Mutant-X gene, you would not be considered the same species as they are, even if your biology is different to a normal human.

This is not the comics. What comic sentinels are capable or not capable of has no bearing on this match.

If you want to claim they can adapt you have to PROVE it. You cannot ask others to prove the negative of a claim you made. And simply saying that they can adapt to Superman because he isn't human is nothing but speculation, and can be disregarded in this thread.

Also, even if Superman possessed the Mutant-X gene, their adaptation isn't a 100% power counter either, or they would have evolved the ability to nullify Blink's portals etc. So their powers had limits, even against actual mutants.

That's where you're wrong. 👆

Trask explained mutants as creatures of the homo genus, which evolved into a different species. Meaning that a "mutant" is anything other than a homo sapien, of the homo genus. WHICH SUPERMAN IS. 👆

See above 👆 Trask specifically also called humans the mutation of homo Neanderthal's. Again, a mutant, by the broad sense of the word you're considering, is anything in the homo genus, OTHER than a homo sapien.

The point is that the Sentinels can adapt to more than the mutant X gene. That's just what they use to track mutants.

I already HAVE. My proof is solely in the fact that the Sentinels can copy the abilities of ANY SPECIES IN THE HOMO GENUS, OTHER THAN HOMO SAPIENS. WHICH SUPERMAN IS. He's bred with Lois. He can have half human, half kryptonian children, proving that he's of the homo genus. Which means that it's VERY POSSIBLE that the Sentinels could mimic his powers. 👆

I already addressed those limits. They can't copy psychic powers, which is why they couldn't copy Magneto's powers, or Xaviers, or Kitty's. Portal creation falls under that category, given that Blink didn't just use some cellular energy to create portals, but her mental, meta-physical energy. 👆

There is no way they adapt and steal his biology and become supersentinels, they were shown to counter fire with ice, ice with fire, hell some of the abilities they never were even shown to be able to copy... Are you really suggesting they are all now going to be kryptonian powered sentinels? Not need there own propulsion systems and be able to create anti gravity on there own like kryptonians?

They have no biologics to operate like kryptonians.

He's trolling.

Ah ok.

It could also be argued that these abilities may have just been preprogrammed and that the unique Mystique-cells allow the versatility needed for them to easily utilize a wide array of abilities once scientists have unlocked how they work in the lab.

Their "adaptability" could be the ability to develop new tactics using this wide array of preprogrammed abilities to neutralize mutants by countering their powers. That was how I saw it anyway, but I only watched DoFP once so I could be wrong.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
It could also be argued that these abilities may have just been preprogrammed and that the unique Mystique-cells allow the versatility needed for them to easily utilize a wide array of abilities once scientists have unlocked how they work in the lab.

Their "adaptability" could be the ability to develop new tactics using this wide array of preprogrammed abilities to neutralize mutants by countering their powers. That was how I saw it anyway, but I only watched DoFP once so I could be wrong.

Yes, exactly, its not like they can now control metal with there robot minds and have TP just because they can adapt. They had a good ability compared to the early versions but don't mean now they can just basically do whatever the fck they want. 😂