Speed Rankings

You are directly and insistently disregarding OP rules even when asked to stop

When it's shit that's been mocked by every vs debating board since forever, yeah, I don't see the big deal

you try to bring in characters NOT in the OP and you bring in anime characters in a movie VS thread

I like to think we all have a standard of "apply the same logic across fiction or don't apply it at all"

And you're saying that trying to bring order to the thread I made is "dragging the site down to the level of CBR"? Your standards of what brings a thread/site down are bizarre....

Being pedantic as **** isn't bringing order (:uvalaugh), it's being, well, pedantic

YES! THAT is EXACTLY what the hell I've been saying. It is a case by case thing. That is why DIRECT proof is needed and not INFERENTIAL evidence......

Okay, what exactly is your definition of "direct proof", since, you know, quantifiable speed feats only happen a few times throughout the series and the rest is just unquantifiable shit and speed tropes

But seriously, constantly punching the **** out of eachother while flying around isn't combat speed, that's just retarded

It's on par with Phenom's "Flash and Zoom zipping around the planet many times isn't combat speed", even though they, you know, were exchanging punches and kicks the whole time

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Not exactly. Slower fighters tag faster fighters all the time. Especially at short or grapple range. Heck, the other kryptonian (Nam-Ek was it?) who was moving pretty slow was tagging supes all the time. Visually evident means that it must be shown VISUALLY to be moving fast.

Then flash would not be considered a speedster cause Arrow and others tagged him. However he is..

Originally posted by NemeBro
Appeal to majority.

Cherry-picking the best feats is just as stupid as cherry-picking the lowest feats. 👆

Anyway:

Metro Man > Superman > Quicksilver > The Beast = Agents (idk which would be faster) >=<? Obi > Russel

I have no idea how fast G-girl is.

YouTube video

YouTube video

Know what, stealthy? We're going in circles here. You insistently want to bring in logic/inferential evidence specifically disallowed in this thread and whine like a child when constantly reminded that such evidences is not considered here.... Are you familiar on how threads and rules work?

How is "being pedantic" bringing the site up/down? The whole point of why I am being overly strict with the rules I stated in my own thread is to avoid retarded back and forth evidential arguments like this. And yet you still manage to bring it in anyway, ignoring the rules of the forum.... SMFH. It is seriously like I'm arguing with a spoiled child here.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
Okay, what exactly is your definition of "direct proof", since, you know, quantifiable speed feats only happen a few times throughout the series and the rest is just unquantifiable shit and speed tropes

"Visually evident" means that we can either (1) see it and be able to time it ourselves or at leas be able to compare it with speed showings of the characters existing in said OP as per rules (2) be showcased via a visual tool/style/technique that demonstrates how fast they are moving (such as slowing down the environment, blur lines, etc.).

The rules of the thread has been stated. It is on the posters who wish to debate within the thread to post evidence proving their assertions. If it is absent, don't whine, just show the ones you can.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Then flash would not be considered a speedster cause Arrow and others tagged him. However he is..

Actually, the REVERSE IS TRUE. And this proves my point exactly and shows the undependability of things like powerscaling.

Flash is a speedster. Arrow is not.

Arrow tagging Flash does not make Arrow a speedster (inferential evidence). But if Arrow gets "feats" that makes him a speedster (like running and reacting at superspeed aka. direct evidence), then he is.

Know what, stealthy? We're going in circles here. You insistently want to bring in logic/inferential evidence specifically disallowed in this thread and whine like a child when constantly reminded that such evidences is not considered here

Well you're certainly entitled to your opinion

"Visually evident" means that we can either (1) see it and be able to time it ourselves or at leas be able to compare it with speed showings of the characters existing in said OP as per rules

That's... not how it works at all

Unless it's something like Yusuke vs Sensui where they're crossing massive distances during their fight (which happens the be the quantifiable speed feat, which it is), then yeah, it'll be rare you'll find a situation like this. Hell, in said series in the next arc Yusuke vs Yomi doesn't have them crossing massive distances or statements of them punching thousands of times every second, but none of us would really assume that they're much slower than Sensui despite massive power boosts

Or to take this logic in Warhammer. Some Ultramarine Sargeant Schmuck hit a Word Bearer in the span of a microsecond (there are several feats of striking in a microsecond too but eh), this would put his reaction/attack speed at Mach 4000 or so (assuming his strike moved a meter and a half). Several fights involving upper tier Daemons or Primarchs don't mention strikes happening in microseconds, but none of us would be stupid and assume that high tiers are much slower than UM schmucks in attacks speed and reactions

Or in DBZ, as I said before, Gotenks flew around the earth several times in a few seconds, but his fight with Buu where Buu beat him on the first encounter, they didn't even zip between cities, but there's no reason to believe they're going much slower

List goes on in fiction

be showcased via a visual tool/style/technique that demonstrates how fast they are moving (such as slowing down the environment, blur lines, etc.).

In other words just unquantifiable garbage (as I said, they're nothing more than speed tropes), which means nothing until you find a quantifiable speed feat, which puts how impressive said thing is into perspective

Though if you want to play that way, fine, a vast majority of fictional fights are unquantifiable and since quantifiable speed feats can't be applied to character fights then there's no point in this

Wow.

Still going in circles.

Still insisting on the thread starter to change his rules to what he wants.

Ignoring and disregarding thread starter's clarification of his rules.

Still bringing in characters not in thread. Characters not even allowed in this forum....

Won't leave thread.

............

Yeahhhh, I'm just going to go wait on a mod if you don't mind...

Still bringing in characters not in thread. Characters not even allowed in this forum....

No, rule is you're not allowed to use them in threads here, if there's a rule where they're not allowed to be referenced, by all means point it out

Still insisting on the thread starter to change his rules to what he wants.

Well hey if you make rules based on bullshit (combat speed fallacy, characters having to perform the exact same speed they were in their quantifiable feats otherwise they weren't going that exact same speed and saying speed tropes like blurs and speed lines are actual quantifiers of speed rather than just tropes) that was laughed out of every vs debating board since forever since 2006, don't complain when someone criticizes you for doing this kind of shit

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Actually, the REVERSE IS TRUE. And this proves my point exactly and shows the undependability of things like powerscaling.

Flash is a speedster. Arrow is not.

Arrow tagging Flash does not make Arrow a speedster (inferential evidence). But if Arrow gets "feats" that makes him a speedster (like running and reacting at superspeed aka. direct evidence), then he is.

I was being facetious. Just because MoS does is not represented in the exact same fashion as say Flash or QS, does not mean he isn't.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Not exactly. Slower fighters tag faster fighters all the time. Especially at short or grapple range. Heck, the other kryptonian (Nam-Ek was it?) who was moving pretty slow was tagging supes all the time. Visually evident means that it must be shown VISUALLY to be moving fast.

Just to point out that Nam-Ek who, despite being slowed down enough (like the others) for us to follow properly, caused multiple sonic booms during the Smallville encounter. So unless the laws of physics operate differently in the MoS universe than it does in RL, he can move at supersonic speeds on the ground, despite being portrayed as moving at speeds we can follow. IMO, that's why they go out of their way to show how much faster Kryptonians are than humans, with the Faora scene. To give us some perspective despite keeping the action between the Kryptonians slow enough for us to follow.

Also, people trying to act like Faora was handling Clark like she was handling regular humans need to rewatch the film. She was completely and utterly beyond their ability to react to once she was in action. She was faster than Clark, but still operating within the same overall speed class. And she handled him because, y'know, he had never been in a fight before, and she is a trained soldier. Also, he learned quickly, because by the end of the encounter he was doing an ok job of handling both her and Nam-Ek at once, and reacting to both.

I'd also bring up that Namek intercepted Superman while he was in motion

So unless the laws of physics operate differently in the MoS universe than it does in RL

Though to be fair, fiction doesn't adhere to real life physics 100%

Not that it makes much of a difference

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I was being facetious. Just because MoS does is not represented in the exact same fashion as say Flash or QS, does not mean he isn't.

I love it how people assume that even in this day and age that if a character doesn't leave blurs, speed lines or afterimages while performing thousands of super crazy speed tricks in one panel like they're the ****ing Flash in every single situation they appear in that they can just ignore any and all feats and powerscaling all day erry day

-Quicksilver (X-Men: Days of Future past)=4th
-Obi Wan (Star Wars franchise)=8th
-Superman (MoS)=2nd
-Metro Man (Megamind)=1st
-Agents (the Matrix)=6th
-The Beast (Kung-Fu hustle)=3rd
-Russel Edgington (True Blood)=7th
-G-Girl (My Super Ex Gf)=5th

How I ranked them.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Just to point out that Nam-Ek who, despite being slowed down enough (like the others) for us to follow properly, caused multiple sonic booms during the Smallville encounter. So unless the laws of physics operate differently in the MoS universe than it does in RL, he can move at supersonic speeds on the ground, despite being portrayed as moving at speeds we can follow. IMO, that's why they go out of their way to show how much faster Kryptonians are than humans, with the Faora scene. To give us some perspective despite keeping the action between the Kryptonians slow enough for us to follow.

Also, people trying to act like Faora was handling Clark like she was handling regular humans need to rewatch the film. She was completely and utterly beyond their ability to react to once she was in action. She was faster than Clark, but still operating within the same overall speed class. And she handled him because, y'know, he had never been in a fight before, and she is a trained soldier. Also, he learned quickly, because by the end of the encounter he was doing an ok job of handling both her and Nam-Ek at once, and reacting to both.

Yeah. Plus in the Superman/Zod fight they seemed to be throwing punches so fast they were creating sonic booms.

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Just to point out that Nam-Ek who, despite being slowed down enough (like the others) for us to follow properly, caused multiple sonic booms during the Smallville encounter. So unless the laws of physics operate differently in the MoS universe than it does in RL, he can move at supersonic speeds on the ground, despite being portrayed as moving at speeds we can follow. IMO, that's why they go out of their way to show how much faster Kryptonians are than humans, with the Faora scene. To give us some perspective despite keeping the action between the Kryptonians slow enough for us to follow.

Also, people trying to act like Faora was handling Clark like she was handling regular humans need to rewatch the film. She was completely and utterly beyond their ability to react to once she was in action. She was faster than Clark, but still operating within the same overall speed class. And she handled him because, y'know, he had never been in a fight before, and she is a trained soldier. Also, he learned quickly, because by the end of the encounter he was doing an ok job of handling both her and Nam-Ek at once, and reacting to both.

Nobody is disputing that MoS characters can travel very fast. And I am not disputing (in this thread anyway) that they may have some sort of superspeed. Why do you think I included them in the thread in the first place?? Cuz they probably have some form of superspeed. As long as the "feats" are posted, they are more than admissible in this case.

What I have issues with is that some ppl are using the "hypersonic flight" scene to state that Superman has near light speed combat speed. Which in of itself flawed because they are basing it on travel speed and not actual combat-speed that is shown throughout the movie. This is flawed reasoning and the fact that I specifically excluded this kind of flawed debating logic in my thread only to have stealth continuously come here and insist we do things his way in a thread he didn't make, kinda makes me wanna lose faith in humanity....

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
I was being facetious. Just because MoS does is not represented in the exact same fashion as say Flash or QS, does not mean he isn't.

Not saying that he is or isn't.

Burden of proof is on the person making the assertion, tho.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
No, rule is you're not allowed to use them in threads here, if there's a rule where they're not allowed to be referenced, by all means point it out

Well hey if you make rules based on bullshit (combat speed fallacy, characters having to perform the exact same speed they were in their quantifiable feats otherwise they weren't going that exact same speed and saying speed tropes like blurs and speed lines are actual quantifiers of speed rather than just tropes)

So the big "MOVIE FEATS ONLY!" in the golden rule allows us to reference anime "feats" here now? Didn't know that. Guess we learn things everyday. 🙄

"Combat speed fallacy" is a fallacy written by a an angry battleboard poster and is not really a real fallacy as logical fallacies go. Glad that you use made-up fallacies in wikis by angry teenagers as your logical standard tho. 👆

And speaking of logical fallacies...

Originally posted by StealthRanger
that was laughed out of every vs debating board since forever since 2006, don't complain when someone criticizes you for doing this kind of shit

Argumentum ad populum.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

And it's even written in a wiki for your convenience. We know how you just looveeee those... 🙄

So the big "MOVIE FEATS ONLY!" in the golden rule allows us to reference anime "feats" here now? Didn't know that. Guess we learn things everyday

Referencing feats from different series to prove a point is a different thing than using say, EU feats for a Star Wars character (of E-616 feats for a Marvel character) in a Darth Vader vs Spiderman thread in the movie vs

Nice try, though

Combat speed fallacy" is a fallacy written by a an angry battleboard poster and is not really a real fallacy as logical fallacies go. Glad that you use made-up fallacies in wikis by angry teenagers as your logical standard tho

I should note that was written by someone fairly well known and respected here (I believe, wikis shifted location a few times so **** if I knew who originally wrote it). But yeah, dismissing shit because you don't like it isn't a valid tactic

Speaking of which, thought you were just going to sit in the corner and wait for a mod ruling, by all means do so