Originally posted by Time Immemorial
So his blocking feat on the helicarrier is his only strength feat and we gonna power scale that to a leviathan level strength feat? No...it doesn't work that way.You keep wanting to take away his speed. Then lets take away Thor's hammer😂 I mean cmon now this is getting silly. Even if he lost his speed he could still fly. Are we limiting how fast he can fly now if we take away his speed, because he uses his flight mainly as his speed to close the distance.
MOS also has a heavy hitting ranged attack as well. So he's not stuck to H2H, and most likely it would get into a brawl/grabble like it did with Hulk, Ironman, Loki, Kurse and everyone else he fought. So the amazing skill Thor has will be met with MoS superior strength and durability.
Hey man, I'm not the one making the rules. You want to give Superman his speed? Then he wins. You want to take away Thor's hammer? Then Superman still wins. I won't argue against those.
Superman has one ranged attack. I'm not denying it's powerful, but he doesn't have AOE like Thor nor does he have the same versatility of powers.
Him brawling with Thor is the worst thing Superman could do. Because then Thor's fighting skill will come into play. Superman's best bet is to just keep flying around, tackling Thor, punch him a few times then fly out. At least that's what I would do if I was Kal. Of course the more time he flies away the more time Thor gets to use ranged and charged attacks.
And yes, I'm assuming equal speed means that their flight speed is equal as well, which means no one is speed blitzing the other. If he gets superspeed flight then that's a different story.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Hey man, I'm not the one making the rules. You want to give Superman his speed? Then he wins. You want to take away Thor's hammer? Then Superman still wins. I won't argue against those.Superman has one ranged attack. I'm not denying it's powerful, but he doesn't have AOE like Thor nor does he have the same versatility of powers.
Him brawling with Thor is the worst thing Superman could do. Because then Thor's fighting skill will come into play. Superman's best bet is to just keep flying around, tackling Thor, punch him a few times then fly out. At least that's what I would do if I was Kal. Of course the more time he flies away the more time Thor gets to use ranged and charged attacks.
And yes, I'm assuming equal speed means that their flight speed is equal as well, which means no one is speed blitzing the other. If he gets superspeed flight then that's a different story.
His AOE attacks are powerful, but AOE attacks are really only used to take out fodder. Focused blasts like what he tried to do on Ironman are more effective on the power players.
By thinking that if MOS gets close he's going to lose is really silly don't you think? The "He's been in 2 fights theory" goes straight out the window when you see what he was up against and pulled through. Ironman did plenty well against him. Going by screen feats, Kurse had only been on one fight. I just don't by into Thor's been fighting for thousands of years. Maybe in CBVF, but here we know we all go on screen feats. So while Thor has more movies and fights on screen, none of those were like the MOS fights, and the one time he went up against a slow moving brick he got stomped.
I for one like Thor and usually watch it whenever its on FX. I have watched it more then MOS I can tell you that cause its always on, so I think I could tell the difference between the fights in Metropolis and Smallville vs the bi frost, hellicarrier and forest fight.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
His AOE attacks are powerful, but AOE attacks are really only used to take out fodder. Focused blasts like what he tried to do on Ironman are more effective on the power players.By thinking that if MOS gets close he's going to lose is really silly don't you think? The "He's been in 2 fights theory" goes straight out the window when you see what he was up against and pulled through. Ironman did plenty well against him. Going by screen feats, Kurse had only been on one fight. I just don't by into Thor's been fighting for thousands of years. Maybe in CBVF, but here we know we all go on screen feats. So while Thor has more movies and fights on screen, none of those were like the MOS fights, and the one time he went up against a slow moving brick he got stomped.
I for one like Thor and usually watch it whenever its on FX. I have watched it more then MOS I can tell you that cause its always on, so I think I could tell the difference between the fights in Metropolis and Smallville vs the bi frost, hellicarrier and forest fight.
Kurse has been in one fight in the movies but 1.) Is an elven general who's implied to have been in several wars, 2) outfought an established skilled fighter (Thor) and 3.) actually has good feats of reflex speed
You keep bringing up the Kurse fight to make it seem like Thor is a crappy fighter but what the Kurse fight actually shows is that for all his bulk, Kurse was actually a good fighter. Besides, you keep bringing that up I'll have to bring up Clarke getting knocked out by an oil rig. Because if we're going for low showings then we might as well use low showings for both characters.
You really believe Superman has enough skill to hang with Thor then prove it. Show me instances where Superman actually displayed skill instead of just brawling.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Kurse has been in one fight in the movies but 1.) Is an elven general who's implied to have been in several wars, 2) outfought an established skilled fighter (Thor) and 3.) actually has good feats of reflex speedYou keep bringing up the Kurse fight to make it seem like Thor is a crappy fighter but what the Kurse fight actually shows is that for all his bulk, Kurse was actually a good fighter. Besides, you keep bringing that up I'll have to bring up Clarke getting knocked out by an oil rig. Because if we're going for low showings then we might as well use low showings for both characters.
You really believe Superman has enough skill to hang with Thor then prove it. Show me instances where Superman actually displayed skill instead of just brawling.
Me bringing up Kurse is not me implying Thor is a crappy fighter. Its acknowledging the fact that when he goes up against a power player like Kurse he faces trouble. Is the Kurse fight a low showing? Or was he just that vastly outgunned? MOS can reproduce Kurse's feats now, because they seem on the same level strength wise H2H.
I don't consider this brawling:
Originally posted by Time ImmemorialAnd Thor was able to hold his own in strength against Hulk for awhile. Hulk who also has better strength feats than Kurse.
Me bringing up Kurse is not me implying Thor is a crappy fighter. Its acknowledging the fact that when he goes up against a power player like Kurse he faces trouble. Is the Kurse fight a low showing? Or was he just that vastly outgunned? MOS can reproduce Kurse's feats now, because they seem on the same level strength wise H2H.I don't consider this brawling:
So does that mean Thor was somehow weaker when he fought Kurse than he when did against Hulk?
Originally posted by Newjak
And Thor was able to hold his own in strength against Hulk for awhile. Hulk who also has better strength feats than Kurse.So does that mean Thor was somehow weaker when he fought Kurse than he when did against Hulk?
I'm debating with Froth right now, I'll deal with you later. 😆
In all seriousness, Kurse is probably stronger then Hulk based on his showing. I don't think he would have any problem stopping the leviathan.
Originally posted by Time ImmemorialI'm trying to point a problem with automatically assuming that because MoS can duplicate Kurse's few strength feats that means that are automatically equivalent.
I'm debating with Froth right now, I'll deal with you later. 😆
I mean Kurse did not have many quantifiable strength feats. Basically his feats are lifting people off the ground and throwing that boulder really hard.
If those are feats people need to duplicate than Ironman would be as strong as Kurse. War Machine can fly with a tank as described in AoU, and Tony can casually quick a car 20 feet in one of his weaker armors ala IM2.
Hulk's strength feats are far better than that. Heck the Leviathan feats easily trumps anything Kurse did strength feat wise.
None of them were easily able or unable all together to over power Thor.
Personally if you wanted to show MoS being greatly stronger than Thor I would go the showing MoS to be much stronger than Hulk route than the Kurse route.
EDIT: Just saw your edit.
Personally I would currently pick Kurse i na majority over Hulk based solely on their combat feats against Thor. Kurse clearly looked superior.
Originally posted by The Sorrow
It wasn't a hammer strike it was a thunderbolt if you're referring to the Jotenheim scene.
Well I didn't say it was just a hammer strike, I said it was a charged hammer strike. But doesn't really matter, the point is that Thor is capable of leveling an entire town with one shot (whether through lightning or mjolnir). Superman has never fought anyone who can hit as hard.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Well I didn't say it was just a hammer strike, I said it was a charged hammer strike. But doesn't really matter, the point is that Thor is capable of leveling an entire town with one shot (whether through lightning or mjolnir). Superman has never fought anyone who can hit as hard.
From a small collision Zod and MoS had mid air it leveled a building. Imagine what would happen if he rammed earth's crust moving at full speed. He would level a city.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Me bringing up Kurse is not me implying Thor is a crappy fighter. Its acknowledging the fact that when he goes up against a power player like Kurse he faces trouble. Is the Kurse fight a low showing? Or was he just that vastly outgunned? MOS can reproduce Kurse's feats now, because they seem on the same level strength wise H2H.I don't consider this brawling:
Well at least we agree that it wasn't a low showing for Thor but was instead a high showing for Kurse. But Superman being able to replicate Kurse's single strength feat doesn't automatically make him as strong as Kurse... because we had yet to see Kurse's limits.
Kurse is also not just a powerhouse, as his fight against Thor proved he was decently fast and pretty skilled as well.
As for your vid, yeah that's still pretty much brawling. Just with fancy effects put in. I'll consider Superman skilled when he can do something like this to his fellow kryptonians:
Considering those are cannon fodder and nothing is really happening to the environment. I don't know how that compares to the smallville fight.
How is Thor's hand 2 hand strength any where near a kryptonians. I still have not seen any H2H that put him at that level.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Considering those are cannon fodder and nothing is really happening to the environment. I don't know how that compares to the smallville fight.How is Thor's hand 2 hand strength any where near a kryptonians. I still have not seen any H2H that put him at that level.
Maybe they are fodder, but those are still other Asgardians he fought. Asgardian warriors, who have way more fighting experience than a farmboy. And he easily defeated them. Kal has zero feats of defeating anyone that easily. Kal has zero feats of him displaying that kind of fighting skill. Neither does Zod, Namek or even Faora for that matter.
As for H2H strength, need I keep repeating his fight against Hulk? Him being able to block Hulk's punch when Hulk can stop a leviathan in it's tracks with one punch? How bout the fact that IM can easily push around cars yet Thor catches his punch and easily holds it in place.
Is it in the same range as the krptonian's strength? Maybe not. But it's close enough that when combined with Mjolnir, his better fighting skills and his more versatile energy attacks it would make for a very hard fight for Superman to win without his superspeed.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Maybe they are fodder, but those are still other Asgardians he fought. Asgardian warriors, who have way more fighting experience than a farmboy. And he easily defeated them. Kal has zero feats of defeating anyone that easily.As for H2H strength, need I keep repeating his fight against Hulk? Him being able to block Hulk's punch when Hulk can stop a leviathan in it's tracks with one punch? How bout the fact that IM can easily push around cars yet Thor catches his punch and easily holds it in place.
Is it in the same range as the krptonian's strength? Maybe not. But it's close enough that when combined with Mjolnir, his better fighting skills and his more versatile energy attacks it would make for a very hard fight for Superman to win without his superspeed.
Kal would have destroyed those guys without even a sweat. It would have been a slaughter of epic proportions.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Kal would have destroyed those guys without even a sweat. It would have been a slaughter of epic proportions.
Of course Superman would have been able to beat them. That wasn't the point.. That scene was to prove fighting ability. To show the difference between someone who brawls (Superman) and someone who actually knows how to fight (Thor).
Originally posted by FrothByte
Of course Superman would have been able to beat them. That wasn't the point.. That scene was to prove fighting ability. To show the difference between someone who brawls (Superman) and someone who actually knows how to fight (Thor).
Thats fancy tricks and showboating, he could of just punched them in the face and been done with it. Also supes isn't fighting with spears.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Thats fancy tricks and showboating, he could of just punched them in the face and been done with it. Also supes isn't fighting with spears.
Nah, if Superman tried to just walk straight in and punch one of them in the face he would have been skewered with a few spears and swords.
Let me ask you this: If you removed all of Thor's and Superman's powers, made them fight without weapons, how do you think the fight would turn out?