Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
If you can't see the double standard in this statement then you really should rest.I mean, that same excuse can be applied to Vader.
I just said it's questionable then applied my reasons, and you guys get riled up. Why?
Vader is a more explored character than 99% of the mythos dude.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Revan outpassing basilisk, hordes of battle droids, and being faster than an echani champion that's defeated more Jedi than most of the PT Dark Jedi have ever faced is Ventress-level? You can do better.
Wow, fighting hordes of battle droids is something Ahsoka and plenty of random PT jedi did on a daily. Ventress has defeated a jedi who can blitz magnaguards, and considering their reaction speed, I'm seeing where you draw such a conclusion based on that alone. Not to mention fighting off and escaping both Kenobi and Skywalker. I can go on.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Wow, fighting hordes of battle droids is something Ahsoka and plenty of random PT jedi did on a daily.
Ventress has defeated a jedi who can blitz magnaguards,
and considering their reaction speed, I'm seeing where you draw such a conclusion based on that alone.
Not to mention fighting off and escaping both Kenobi and Skywalker. I can go on.
Fisto outpaced and blitzed Grievous's personal magnaguards, and while their reaction speed may have been exaggerated, they are still built with speed to match jedi, and that's just the average magnaguard, let alone Grievous' personal body guards. Fisto has also moved so fast that his speed surprised Obi Wan, who has by that time witnessed the speed of Maul, who is one of the fastest and most skilled fighters in the mythos barring the top dogs.
The fact that Ventress matched him and pierced his guard, is more impressive than what you've listed for Revan.
Perhaps Revan could fight them off simultaneously, but that burden of proof is not on me. I can also go into detail about Kenobi and Skywalkers feats, but I'm not at a lap top and don't feel like writing it all out. I'm also missing some of Fisto's feats. But I assure you, you'd need more than that to assume Revan can give them both a challenge.
If you're hard pressed to prove Revan's superiority over Ventress on feats alone. What hope is there that he'd stand a chance against Dooku?
Open a thread, and I'll happily get to it when I can.
Not to mention a lot of Revan's feats need more context but there again, that's where the double standard is showing.
Neph, by your logic, Vader know little of esoteric abilities when my post implies otherwise, unless you think the adepts knew more than he based on what Vader hasn't shown, but that line of logic applies to Revan. He doesn't get off the hook because he's not as explored.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Fisto outpaced and blitzed Grievous's personal magnaguards, and while their reaction speed may have been exaggerated, they are still built with speed to match jedi, and that's just the average magnaguard, let alone Grievous' personal body guards. Fisto has also moved so fast that his speed surprised Obi Wan, who has by that time witnessed the speed of Maul, who is one of the fastest and most skilled fighters in the mythos barring the top dogs.
The fact that Ventress matched him and pierced his guard, is more impressive than what you've listed for Revan.
Perhaps Revan could fight them off simultaneously, but that burden of proof is not on me. I can also go into detail about Kenobi and Skywalkers feats, but I'm not at a lap top and don't feel like writing it all out. I'm also missing some of Fisto's feats. But I assure you, you'd need more than that to assume Revan can give them both a challenge.
If you're hard pressed to prove Revan's superiority over Ventress on feats alone. What hope is there that he'd stand a chance against Dooku?
Open a thread, and I'll happily get to it when I can.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Sidious66, curious question: Why are you honestly debating Revan when you haven't read my respect thread?I call total bullshit you even know a 1/10th of his feats, so your entire tantrum here is just the ultimate display of arrogance.
All I need to know is Revan's best feats in order to know where he stands. Again, your respect thread isn't a requirement for that. Why is that so hard for you to grasp?
I'm not the one throwing the tantrum here. I made a reasonable assertion regarding Vader's knowledge of esoteric techniques, which wasn't even a conclusive one on my part, hence the word "questionable," and it riled everyone up and, again, exposed heavy double standards. If we are going to take that route, then based on showings alone, I can make a good case of Ventress being a challenge to Revan, and even has a chance. If it's arguable, then there's no hope of him being Dooku tier. I'm taking this as an opportunity to show you guys how petty you are when it comes to another character from the PT era. So which route are we to take?
This was probably a waste of time to text all of this out, as I doubt you still know where I'm coming from. However, Neph does, which makes it worse on his part, and its the reason he attempts to challenge me then backs away so quickly, because he sees that his usage of double standards are strongly notceable.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Ashoka can fight magnaguards and Grievous. The droids on the Star Forge aren't built to match Jedi. They are built to outpace, outpower, and kill them.It's actually pretty retarded to claim Ventress getting the up on Fisto is comparable to taking down multiple giant, assault droids, armies, and scores of the finest warriors in the galaxy.
I don't need a list of feats for Obi-Wan or Anakin. This Team struggles with Dooku. Even if that weren't true, they have both defeated Ventress several times solo, Obi-Wan very recently.
Revan's superior battle record, precog, TK, and diversity is his hope that he could stand a chance to Dooku. It's not like Ventress stands a chance on her own anyway, as we've seen several times.
Way to deflect from the actual topic. I'm happy with discussing Revan in the thread already made for him and Vader.
It's pretty retarded that you're using Ahsoka to lowball, and to ignore Fisto's feats, and suggest beating droids built to fight off weak jedi (your own admission of the jedi in that era) is better than beating Fisto when he's beat magnaguards who can react to jedi in the prime of it's order, and have been stated to have lightspeed (maybe it was fraction of lightspeed) reaction speed. Other than claiming the SF forces are better, do you have anything to show that they are faster than magnaguards? I can bust out with a bunch of highly detailed feats as opposed to ones that only suggest a force user is above average.
I'm referring to Revan before he got his new feat of knocking down a group of jedi with a gust of wind, which isn't much above Savage, BTW, since most put him above Dooku before that time. What TK feats does he have that are above Ventress, let alone the guy who can ragdoll Ventress. The best you can give me is a game mechanic feat, which lacks context other than us knowing it happened.
You're struggling to prove superiority over Ventress, and that's against me throwing out feat off the top of my head, and not even getting into it like I would be able to on a laptop and more research. Bringing up Ahsoka is a noticeable sign of the struggle. My point here is, if you're having trouble with Ventress, how on earth do you expect him to be on par with Dooku--feats only?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Is there any verifiable way to show Vader knows more esoteric techniques? Because I call bullshit, Vader is no sorcerer and doesn't do rituals or alchemy and hasn't utilised the Force in the subtle ways that Revan has.He doesn't even have lightning for christsakes.
He does know how to counter the powers of the Dark Reaper excellent
I agree with S66 in regards to the implications of Vader's advanced force knowledge. Basing his esoteric prowess solely on what he's shown is ludicrous, as then it can be said that Vitiate is relatively ignorant compared to the likes of Exar Kun, who's shown quite a greater variety of powers than Vitiate. That said, Revan still has the edge in esoteric knowledge and application.