Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
More-so than Krillen?
Too me it seemed like Goku was actually putting effort into the fight while 17 was like just chillin.
Thats mega retarded imo.
Phuck they should have just called 17 in ROF saga going by this he could have easily whooped Frieza's ass.
Everyone is saying "Goku was holding back".
Goku could probably beat most people on Earth in SSJ1 except Vegeta, and likely Buu and Gohan. He doesn't need to go SSB to hold back. He even says he never intended to turn SSB during their fight.
Some examples/points:
1. Think of how ridiculous this is - we're saying if Goku never became SSG (Red or Blue), all these punks are suddenly even REMOTELY catching up to him...because?
Even if Goku NEVER discovered SS2, SS3, or SSG, he would've still kept widening the gap between himself and others. Because his base keeps getting stronger, even using just SSJ1 would mean his strength keeps growing exponentially.
HECK, EVEN IF HE NEVER TURNED SSJ AT ALL, he would EASILY maintain or exceed his level over others - and bitchslap someone like Krillin in his sleep.
2. Just because Goku has come so far, people forget that back in DBZ, Buu Saga characters were already immensely powerful. Buu was destroying galaxies FFS. I don't buy for a second that any of these punks are now even close to that level, not even SSJ2 IMO.
3. Here's another way to think about how BS this is - Lets go back to Frieza Saga Goku - Lets say Base Goku was only 2x stronger than Krillin at that point (we all know this is understated).
So then Goku turns SSJ1, becoming 100X stronger than Krillen.
So lets say Goku never got stronger ever since - are we saying Krillin can even become 100X stronger through his normal training, in the time frames we are talking about? Even for Saiyan to get 100X stronger without a transformation would be INSANE. Historically, a Saiyan with 1 Year training (in the Hyperbolic time chamber) probably would never get more than 2x stronger.
* * * TLDR - Yes these punks could probably get stronger indefinitely with training (even though its said even Saiyan's have a natural limit, but whatevs), but not at the rate that is being suggested in DBS. Even in their whole life time someone like Krillin probably shouldn't reach Frieza Saga Goku.
..................
IMO - Some of the Power scaling that they got RIGHT:
* Vegeta vs Cabba
* Goku vs Future Trunks (DBZ and DBS) - I think SSJ2 Goku should still handily beat SSJ2 Trunks, but they correctly showed SSJ3 Goku one-shotting Trunks.
Originally posted by Bentley
I'm just glad they dropped the sillyness of powerlevels, that killed most of the characters off the franchise and was a terrible plot device.
Yeah, they used bad writing to try and rectify bad writing, but I don't see how else they could've gone about giving the others much spotlight again.
Originally posted by Estacado
17 pretty much acquired god lvl power with only trainin could make sense incase of Frieza but an android....
All that means is Goku and Vegeta are untalented bums in comparison.
Literally decades of grinding in training, near-death power boosts, and specialized tutelage,
and they get showed up by Frieza and 17 who just hit the gym for the first time in their life.
haermm
Originally posted by InedianLiterally makes no sense that Ssj or above forms have no minimum power output without powering down tbh..... Goku firing a blast in Ssj weaker than his base form just doesn't seem possible.
It doesn't matter if Goku is SSB, he can control his power completely. If he wants, also in SSB form, can shoot kamehameha on a level of Roshi.He is riducously more powerful than 17. If there is someone who will/could be a rival of Goku and Vegeta, outside of Gohan, it's Uub.
Also why does Goku not know about Uub but then talked about Uub in last universe fighting arc.
I remember back in the day when I'd try to convince people making power level lists and "Base multiple theories" that they were wasting their time. They didn't believe me and swore up and down that we could use 'math" to determine how strong these characters in relation to each other. I tried telling them that the writer can and will do whatever the f-ck he wants, but they didn't listen . . .