Dragon Ball Discussion Thread

Originally posted by Galan007
K. So when was it ever established that we should be treating the anime and manga as separate/twin universes, like you mentioned earlier?

What was established is that both the anime and the manga are canon. As of now, neither of them are considered a secondary source. Yet they contradict each other on a regular basis, making it impossible to reconcile them as a single continuity. That is why I, and almost everyone else I know of, treat them as separate entities. It requires the least assumptions.

You're preaching that I'm just throwing my opinion around, but that is literally all you're doing here.

And? You throwing your opinion around is only a problem because you present it as authoritative.

Your contention is essentially: "it wasn't shown therefore it must be different." Obviously I find that line of reasoning a bit fallacious

Yes, of course you find your strawman fallacious. Back to my argument, I believe I dedicated half of my last post to clarifying that my contention is: "it wasn't shown therefore it may be different." So either you're not reading, or you're intentionally misrepresenting my post... feels like deja vu.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yet they contradict each other on a regular basis, making it impossible to reconcile them as a single continuity. That is why I, and almost everyone else I know of, treat them as separate entities. It requires the least assumptions.

Dammit Trunks! This is what happens when you travel back in time! You create multiple timelines!!

If only we could get Zen-Oh to destroy the anime...

Originally posted by NewGuy01
What was established is that both the anime and the manga are canon. As of now, neither of them are considered a secondary source. Yet they contradict each other on a regular basis, making it impossible to reconcile them as a single continuity. That is why I, and almost everyone else I know of, treat them as separate entities. It requires the least assumptions.

And? You throwing your opinion around is only a problem because you present it as authoritative.

Yes, of course you find your strawman fallacious. Back to my argument, I believe I dedicated half of my last post to clarifying that my contention is: "it wasn't shown therefore it [b]may be different." So either you're not reading, or you're intentionally misrepresenting my post... feels like deja vu. [/B]

It makes sense to me.

Treat them as seperate continuities, and give Superman the win over both. As you argued convincingly.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
What was established is that both the anime and the manga are canon. As of now, neither of them are considered a secondary source. Yet they contradict each other on a regular basis, making it impossible to reconcile them as a single continuity. That is why I, and almost everyone else I know of, treat them as separate entities. It requires the least assumptions.

K.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
And? You throwing your opinion around is only a problem because you present it as authoritative.

Read your above response again... Yet you are accusing ME of trying to present my opinion as "authoritative"? Lol, the irony...

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Back to my argument, I believe I dedicated half of my last post to clarifying that my contention is: "it wasn't shown therefore it [b]may be different." So either you're not reading, or you're intentionally misrepresenting my post... feels like deja vu. [/B]

Because "may be different" is hardly the evidence I asked for. It is your opinion and nothing more.

The RoF film is canon. The RoF anime is canon. We know RoF happened in the manga. Until I get a legitimate reason to assume the RoF arc(particularly Goku's fight with Freeza) was intended to have played out vastly different in manga-canon, I'm not just going to assume it did...cuz personal reasons or w/e.

That is where my opinion stems from, and I feel like it is perfectly logical... Far moreso than the alternative you have presented here.

*For the record, I would very much LOVE it if the respective manga and anime canons WERE actually established to be taking place in twin/separate universes. That'd be THE most cohesive thing that could possibly happen to the franchise at this point.

Originally posted by Galan007
*For the record, I would very much LOVE it if the respective manga and anime canons WERE actually established to be taking place in twin/separate universes. That'd be THE most cohesive thing that could possibly happen to the franchise at this point.

I don't know why they just don't say it. They have the perfect excuse as to how they can take place in separate timelines thanks to Future Trunks.

Well, that kind of in-universe explanation might be difficult. Things like the mechanics of God ki don't seem like things that Trunks could change. Then again, with Dragon Ball Heroes coming out, who knows what sort of crazy shit's gonna happen.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Well, that kind of in-universe explanation might be difficult. Things like the mechanics of God ki don't seem like things that Trunks could change. Then again, with Dragon Ball Heroes coming out, who knows what sort of crazy shit's gonna happen.

It's Toriyama dude. He just makes it up as he goes along and forgets about things. He forgot about Launch. He forgot that Super Saiyan 2 was a thing. That kind of in-universe explanation could totally happen.

Originally posted by Galan007
Both are canon. The manga is *more* canon due to increased direct oversight by Toriyama.

Might be mistaken but I thought Toriyamas involvement in both of these was pretty hands off?

Toriyama's involvement in the manga is very hands-on, actually. He writes scripts for each chapter/arc, and Toyotaro creates the artwork around that script. Granted, Toyotaro is given the freedom to add his own little 'twists' to the books here and there, but the final drafts(including any additions by Toyotaro) are ultimately reviewed/edited/approved by Toriyama himself before they are published:
https://i.imgur.com/4riz19j.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/IJA0bVz.jpg

Toriyama is still quite involved in the anime as well, but he really just provides Toei with a rough draft for each arc, and the general direction he wants the story to go... Toei fills in a lot of the gaps/plot-holes themselves. Case in point, the Universe Survival arc:
https://i.imgur.com/K3sq8MQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/TMQInrM.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/zxJUGjR.jpg

Hence why the manga represents a truer look at Toriyama's actual vision than the anime.

He's got more trust in Toei and it's easier to supervise one dude drawing pictures than try to make changes to an anime in progress.

The only difference is he can edit the Manga if he finds something he doesn't like or sees that Toyoboyo is actually out of his mind.

His involvement is overplayed. He draws up some shit, watches blurry genital porn. Reads a script, blurs things he doesn't like, and then watches blurry genital porn again. He added 3 words as opposed to 1 to the manga. He cares way more about it and as such it's super canon.

Black is so different that it's two different universes. Anime is anime, manga is manga.

Why is everything about Black with you?

I just watched the death of superman and now I'm wondering what's the weakest version of goku who could kill doomsday?

Depends on the incarnation of Doomsday and the fight conditions.

Kid Goku

Originally posted by TheBadguy
I just watched the death of superman and now I'm wondering what's the weakest version of goku who could kill doomsday?

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Why is everything about Black with you?

Because he was the best for me 🙂

Since it hasn't been posted before, I think I realized/found out the real reason Cell hasn't been brought back as yet... His spots!

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2016-03-01/interview-the-past-present-and-future-of-dragon-ball/.99269

Can we expect a Dragon Ball Resurrection ‘C’ movie, since Cell is the next Dragon Ball villain?

Yamamuro: (laughs) As an animator, I would not like that, since Cell's complicated design is really hard to draw. When he is standing still, it doesn't matter, but when he is moving, because of all the spots on his body, it takes so long to draw him every time. You have to calculate how he's going to move perfectly, and then you have to check and recheck the result every time. That's so much work!

Toriyama also went on record expressing how much he hated drawing all those spots on Cell's body in the manga panel for panel, so I can imagine how annoying it must've been to do so frame-for-frame for the animators.

Here's a simple solution then... Give Cell a new form where he doesn't have the spots. 😐 I get that this kind of thing is sometimes the price for making a character over-detailed, but still, I could do without the spots if it meant Cell finally being back.