https://x.com/tkoj0/status/1768731573619220679?s=46&t=K4cVTc5N6YNQz4qoJbOKRg
I guess Gohan being the strongest after all (for now) just by breathing air and pulling a new form out the ass ended up being a Toriyama final will and testament, so will be passively more accepting of it going forward. Is just a lazy repeat of the Buu saga though where Gohan becomes strongest again by doing basically nothing (standing around an old Kai dancing around him for hours in the case of Buu saga) and I expect this will last about as long as as when he was on top in the late Buu saga.
Or if Gohan consistently fights/trains more again because Toyotaro likes him more than the late creator did, that be cool too.
Oh, and he is definitely beating Broly next chapter. Calling it. Would like Broly to still shine somehow, but dont see how current Gohan would lose to him when he just beat UI Goku.
So the sparring was pretty much a draw...
https://www.reddit.com/r/Dragonballsuper/s/pZ2vJbQar4
Ah, makes sense with that in perspective. Broly vs Gohan was more interesting than I thought too; it was never about one beating the other here so much as showing that the current saiyans are all in the same ballpark now.
Shouldve had Orange Piccolo as part of the spar too if anything, but I guess will have to make do with the earlier Akira statement that Piccolo is on Goku level now. Thank you, Toriyama.
My impressions from the first half of Daima in another thread.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Dragon Ball Muppet Babies!This being the last thing from Toriyama is the only reason I've given it a watch; otherwise it would've been a skip.
It's kinda dull on average. Not terrible or offensive, just dull. Even original Dragon Ball fans say it's not that much like OG DB, as barely anything happens in the episodes. There's not as much lore as people initially defending Daima were saying either, but is still the most interesting part which isn't saying much. It's going at a slow pace meant for much more than twenty something episodes though which Daima was said to be.
Despite Super's flaws, people are just waiting for it to come back through Toyotaro at the end of the day.
It was something resembling stakes with them fighting remotely strong characters, and cool fight animation and such. Flashback to Dabura was cool, as well as doing anything with Dabura's demon king predecessor.
Weird as terrible as the designs are, Majin Kuu and Duu's interactions are some of the show's endless attempts at comic relief that were at least kinda funny.
Those were the pros, but for the cons...
Gomah's design in his powered up form is bad. He looks like Jiren's body with the exact same getup with a different ill-fitting head.
Casually retconning Bibidi to be a loser who got Buu from some random witch in Daima. That would be one thing if the witch was a cool character but she's an incompetent and unlikeable loser herself.
Obsession with comic relief that is rarely funny and never stops.
Discount Ginyu Force, otherwise known as the Gendarmerie Force, is ineffectual and 100% gags when the series is already 90% gags. Ginyu Force was cool not just exclusively for gags, it was their comedic nature contrasted with their effectiveness and zany powers. The Gendarmerie Force having mostly same-y and generic designs didn't help either.
Gomah's ascension to godhood is entirely because of dumb luck and nothing else, making him look real incompetent. When he sees the third eye demonic treasure, he puts it as a bottom tier priority to get it. The random girl he sent to get it could've easily used it for herself with all of the unfunny comic relief related to him getting it.
Majin Kuu and Duu's designs are bad recolors to be uglier Saibaman/Majin hybrids. Pretty much the Cell Max of Buu, except they have some comedy and likability to them.
As far as today's episode, seeing SSJ3 Vegeta in adult form was nice, with the Final Flash against Gomah's mouth beam as the cherry on top. Then we get an encore of the SSJ4 stuff but this time as adult.
Memes aside, I'm not really feeling the "Vegeta got done dirty" thing here again far as Goku one-upping him with SSJ4. I mean like super saiyan god in BotG, this wasn't something Goku got on his own.
Spoiler:
What's interesting about this SSJ4 is that it's not based through pure ki alone or the golden oozaru phase, but magic.Also puts into perspective how Neva the old Namekian is probably the real most influential being of the demon realm, aside from being probably the ultimate Toriyama self-insert.
I guess this SSJ4 can be seen as a precursor to super saiyan god, with the latter being the 2nd time Goku was given a power that he didn't get through training, explaining why Goku felt annoyed at how he got a power that wasn't really his own in the Battle of the Gods movie.
Of course this SSJ4 was a one-time thing that Goku doesn't acquire on his own. Neva unlocked his monkey potential but only temporarily, since again, the form was magic, not ki based. Goku won't be training with Neva to maintain SSJ4 like he did with Whis to maintain the god form stuff. Thus, it didn't change the narrative of the story or contradict anything, which for Dragon Ball is impressive.
(I guess the monkey side of saiyans can be considered demon realm based since Oozaru's have pointy ears and considering how Goku got SSJ4 temporarily)
Earlier analysis on the SSJ4 stuff.
Yeah, we've been discussing it here as well. 👆
To sum up what I've already mentioned in that thread...
There have been a few episodes I've enjoyed quite a bit, and some of the world/cosmology-building has been fun, but overall Daima has been annoyingly mid, imo. I will say the animation has been consistently great, though.
-I didn't like Duu and Kuu at first, but the Majin bros have definitely grown on me.
-SS3 Vegeta was cool to see in canon, even if it doesn't exactly mesh with DBS.
-Third-Eye Gomah is so generically dumb looking. He's basically just Jiren with Gomah's head bolted on, and he just gets bigger and bigger depending on who he's fighting.
-Makai Porunga looks epic. He's basically what you'd get if Ultimate Shenron(GT) did the fusion dance with Namekian Porunga.
-SS4 Goku was leaked months ago. It's cool I guess, but GT did it better(both in the initial reveal and in the general design/animation/look, imo.)
-Neva is still the biggest "?" for me. When you think about all the abilities/knowledge that he has randomly asspulled up to this point, Neva just comes off as stupidly OP and broken(almost like an Angel in that respect.) I have absolutely no idea what direction they'll go with him, but it would be hilarious if Neva turns out to be Rymus, and the entirety of Daima has all been part of some cosmic game he engineered for the lulz.
-At this point I still think a new Goku+Vegeta fusion is imminent. I think they'll use the fusion bugs next episode to give us a canon SS3 fusion(which will probably look badass, tbf.) If they don't go that route, I'll be surprised.
As for the canonicity thing: most of the plot-holes up to this point can still be resolved with a simple mind-wipe(from either Neva or the Dragon) at the end of the series. SS4 is the main thing that must go away in order for Daima to retain any semblance of canon at this point(even if it just becomes one of those "only accessible in the Demon Realm" sort of things.) Because SS4 simply cannot exist in current DBS in any kind of semi-believable way. The other plot-holes aren't nearly as crucial.
However, if SS4 is still a usable form after the finale, then I would personally consider putting Daima in the "canon-adjacent" category. IOW, DBS is canon to Daima, but Daima isn't canon to DBS(not unlike the relationship between DBZ and GT)... Until I get a legitimate reason to assume otherwise. The smaller and more inconsequential plot-holes can at least be [sloppily] rationalized if need be... But an entire transformation? Nah.
We'll just have to wait and see what happens in the finale, though.
I'll admit I kinda prefer black hair as the default for SSJ4 instead of red hair. Gogeta having the latter was one thing, but black hair just stands out more when they already have the red fur. It's whatever though.
In hindsight, I think Yamoshi the original super saiyan god which they showed a silhouette of at times in Super, may have been a SSJ4. He was shown to still have a tail after all, except he also had god ki (got it the same way Goku did in BotG through the ritual) to be able to contend with Beerus.
Originally posted by Ridley_PrimeThe original SSG was just a pure-hearted Saiyan(likely from Vegeta's bloodline), who briefly gained said power via ritual in order to try and stop a group of evil Saiyans. The presence of a tail shouldn't be overly important, because prior to Goku's arrival on earth, all Saiyans had tails naturally.
In hindsight, I think Yamoshi the original super saiyan god which they showed a silhouette of at times in Super, may have been a SSJ4. He was shown to still have a tail after all, except he also had god ki (got it the same way Goku did in BotG through the ritual) to be able to contend with Beerus.
Aside from that, SSG *shouldn't* be connected to SS4 at all -- one is the result of a Saiyan's natural evolutionary process(so normal ki), while the other is a fully 'divine' form that Goku could only unlock through a specific ritual(so God ki)... That's also what differentiates Gohan's "Beast" transformation from things like SSB, MUI, UE, etc.:
https://ibb.co/ZpVZ20zk
But at this point who knows wtf will happen with these transformations down the road? Members from the DB team have already stated that elements from Daima will continue popping up in future DB projects, so all of this is likely just an appetizer anyway... Which is crazy, tbh.
Originally posted by Galan007
Chapter #104 just canonized Olibu ("Oribu" in Japanese):This is actually a pretty big deal, because it's the first time a character from anime filler has ever been officially canonized. Also makes me wonder if they're subtly teasing a canon Otherworld Tournament, wherein we might get a canon Pikkon as well. mmm
