Dragon Ball Discussion Thread

Originally posted by Kento
I mean, people using other moves is fine. But Krillin upgraded his own move, plus Solar Flare. Makes no sense.

Idk, even getting it late, most people still find GT terrible. Would the hype Japan didn't have for it, be enough from a western audience?

Also, I think Super is doing well in Japan, something GT failed to do. I think the anime would have probably went on longer than it did.

My first exposure to GT was some vague clips of SSJ4 from the dial-up era of internet. I think the way Funimation localized GT did it no favors either though (the out of place rap intro and such), apart from the problems GT already had. Probably would've remembered it better in a way if they still had Bruce Faulconer music by that point for instance.

But had the West gotten GT around the same time Japan did, I think the West would've saved it, just like how the West made up for the DB Super Hero movie's lack of sales in Japan.

That's true though, Super has been doing better in Japan for the most part (for better or worse) despite some of the shenanigans that are to be had with modern Dragon Ball.

gt had some bad moments, but i still enjoyed it. still think ssj4 is one of the best looking transformations out of them all.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Remember when Krillen did a Solar Flare X100 during the early ToP? Maybe it was just a Toei thing, but was surprised to find out that move could have a multiplier.

...Yet here I am still waiting for Krillin to fire a Destructo Disc x100, that can one-shot absolutely everyone. The God-buster, if you will. 🙁

Originally posted by Galan007
Literally everything seems to have a multiplier in DBS. Which is hilarious in hindsight, given that a standard Solar Flare has already been successful every single time it has been used, iirc... As an 'attack' it probably has the best track record of them all. Toei just likes to buff shit for no reason at all.

...Yet here I am still waiting for Krillin to fire a Destructo Disc x100, that can one-shot absolutely everyone. The God-buster, if you will. 🙁

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Hm, true.

My first exposure to GT was some vague clips of SSJ4 from the dial-up era of internet. I think the way Funimation localized GT did it no favors either though (the out of place rap intro and such), apart from the problems GT already had. Probably would've remembered it better in a way if they still had Bruce Faulconer music by that point for instance.

But had the West gotten GT around the same time Japan did, I think the West would've saved it, just like how the West made up for the DB Super Hero movie's lack of sales in Japan.

That's true though, Super has been doing better in Japan for the most part (for better or worse) despite some of the shenanigans that are to be had with modern Dragon Ball.

Originally posted by Kento
Has Destructo Disk failed to cut anything, outside of anime stuff?

Afaik, Cell Max is the only character who has legitimately soaked a true DD from Krillin in canon. However, the Disc was still strong enough to stop Cell Max's bullrush all together(and Cell was still at full power, btw), thereby saving #18's life:
https://i.imgur.com/7x7p8n2.gif
That actually speaks volumes to the Disc's potential, given that Cell Max was around Broly-level, and Krillin is just Krillin... Pretty absurd that the Disc could do anything at all, tbh.

If we're talking manga-only, then I don't think Krillin's DD has ever failed. Even as of the most recent manga chapter, his Disc easily sliced through Cell Max's energy attack(which again saved #18's life):
https://ibb.co/9tLsq8P
https://ibb.co/G293K0c

The only other time I know the DD failed was Cell in anime only. Really wish Krillin would do more with that move in the manga. I imagine it fails in the anime so often because of it hitting someone is cool, but what it would do can't be shown in Super Anime version. But the Super Manga has some raw scenes.

Originally posted by Kento
The only other time I know the DD failed was Cell in anime only. Really wish Krillin would do more with that move in the manga. I imagine it fails in the anime so often because of it hitting someone is cool, but what it would do can't be shown in Super Anime version. But the Super Manga has some raw scenes.

Anyway, I think the Destructo Disc isn't used often because it's one of those attacks that is WAY more haxx than it has any right to be. I mean, if f*cking Krillin was able to stagger Cell Max with a Disc, then just imagine if, say, Orange Piccolo(who is obviously several orders of magnitude beyond Krillin) had spammed Discs at him, lol. Cell would have probably been diced to pieces, and with no regen to speak of, that would have been game over... But obviously Toei would never allow that.

Same logic applies to the Kikoho, tbh.

We know that Gokou can use DD also, he should just be opening with it.

👆

If the noteworthy Z Fighters opened every battle with a Solar Flare + Destructo Disc spam combo, they'd probably win every single fight nigh-instantly. Same with a Solar Flare + Kikoho combo.

Like anything before Cell it makes sense to just do that. With Cell and Buu, like those were beings you couldn't really use the combo on. In Super Granolah arc might be the only time it could be used, depending on how you think Beerus would handle it. Because, u6 arc is friendly fights, Zamasu was immortal so it wouldn't work, maybe on Gokou Black but not a way to beat Zamasu. ToP has the no kill rule. Moro could just absorb the energy from Solar Flare and DD also. Though with that, maybe 19 and 20 could also absorb the Destructo Disk?

Raditz, Vegeta, the Ginyu Force, 4th form Freeza, the Androids, Golden Freeza, Goku Black, pretty much everyone noteworthy from the ToP (IF lethal force were an option), Broly, Moro(before he could regenerate), Granolah, Gas, Cell Max, etc.

I'd say a Solar Flare + Destructo Disc spam combo would've had a good shot at taking down all of the above, if used by one of the more powerful Z Fighters during those eras immediately at the onset.

Originally posted by Kento
Yea, I watched most of the Baby Saga in like Real Video, terrible quality, fan subbed. So maybe it would have been saved by the west. Although, it would have been Ocean Dub had it come out around the same time not Funi so no Bruce Faulconer right? And it would have had to been popular enough during the time to not have like them quit making it in the middle of a saga.

Originally posted by Galan007
Literally everything seems to have a multiplier in DBS. Which is hilarious in hindsight, given that a standard Solar Flare has already been successful every single time it has been used, iirc... As an 'attack' it probably has the best track record of them all. Toei just likes to buff shit for no reason at all.

...Yet here I am still waiting for Krillin to fire a Destructo Disc x100, that can one-shot absolutely everyone. The God-buster, if you will. 🙁

I can't be mad at Krillen having Solar Flare x100 when we had that shit before. If GT Vegeta had more screen time, maybe he would've had Gallick Gun x10 as a SSJ4 or something. ermm

Random techniques getting buffs seems more interesting than how the characters themselves get buffed now. If DBS gives Kamehameha a multiplier buff out of nowhere like GT did, then Vegeta should get Final Flash x100 or something.

GT Vegeta had Final Shine Attack, to be fair

--
The very nature of Solar Flare, being just a supportive technique with a pretty flawless track record as Galan mentioned, is what makes its x100 version weird and kind of redundant.

Fair. I guess the idea of Solar Flare with a multiplier was to amplify its range, what with how many fighters there were in the ToP at the start. Cant think of any other reason. Maybe it can blind the targets longer than normal Solar Flare, but IDK.

Final Shine was alright for what it was, though didnt leave much an impact on me unfortunately. I guess there was this though for SSJ4 Vegeta.

https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Maximum_Final_Flash

Aside from Destruco Disc, Special Beam Cannon with a multiplier could be cool. Could like pierce the target even if the opponent is much stronger than the user.. but I guess it would take even longer to charge it up as a result. Of course, both moves would still be useless against someone with regeneration regardless.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Cant think of any other reason. Maybe it can blind the targets longer than normal Solar Flare, but IDK.

Wiki seems to explain it nicely - assuming no fanboy edited the article too much, of course:

https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Solar_Flare_x100

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Final Shine was alright for what it was, though didnt leave much an impact on me unfortunately. I guess there was this though for SSJ4 Vegeta.

https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Maximum_Final_Flash

Nice find. Forgot about it completely 👆

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Could like pierce the target even if the opponent is much stronger than the user..

Well, yeah. That was the whole point right from its first usage. Could be taken to extreme levels with a right multiplier, sure.

I think they should leave it alone, though. Piccolo had so many interesting techniques at his disposal, originally. Then Makankosappo became his trademark move and we keep seeing it in all situations --- even when there's no point in using it.

I see...

Not to change from the discussion about techniques, but learned some interesting things today.

First off, I saw from a video about interview statements from GT's creator Kozo Morishita.

Without quoting the whole thing, he was basically afraid to fully commit to the adventure aspect which GT which was why it was only there for the first arc or so, and then went back to Z elements starting with Baby which seemed more safe. Secondly, the reasoning for the focus on Goku also showed how out of touch Morishita was on the then growing popularity of the other characters (Vegeta, Piccolo, and so on), acting like Goku alone was what made Z as great as it was... Explains a lot in hindsight.

Not to suddenly put Toriyama on a pedestal, but he occasional still makes use of others besides Goku, more so than Morishita did at least which I guess was why GT had earned the nickname Goku Time.

Speaking of Toriyama, he didn't originally do Battle of the Gods. He came in and made many changes to it, but this was Toei's original draft for BotG apparently.

From what we know, the tone was originally much darker, and Toriyama rewrote the whole thing from the ground up. Beerus was conceptualized as a purely evil god who spreads darkness to whoever he touches (kinda like Cumber, really), hence his name -- it was originally a play on "virus" because he was meant to have these viral abilities, but Toriyama being Toriyama thought they were making an alcoholic drink pun. Toei's Beerus apparently didn't have any comedic quirks at all.

I don't recall who exactly came up with the Super Saiyan God concept, but Yamamuro had very different plans for it than Toriyama to say the least. Yamamuro basically sketched out a Super Saiyan 3.5 with a gaudy cape, whereas Toriyama heavily insisted on the much more minimalist design we have now.

1- The Movie was set during Krillin and 18's wedding.

2- Beerus was an evil lizard who infected planets with evil.

3- The Saiyans were originally good, but Beerus turned them evil.

4- Whis wasn't in the movie.

5- Vegeta's "my Bulma" scene wasn't in the movie.

6- Beerus turned everyone against Goku like how Baby did in GT.

7- SsjG would be muscular and have hair similar in length to Ssj4 with a cape.

8- Toriyama decided to have Goku lose the fight at the end to keep Beerus' image intact.

9- Toriyama told them to avoid destruction within the city to not remind people of the 2011 earthquake.

10- There were 3 original characters who stole the DBs, but Toriyama changed it to Pilaf and friends.

Wow. Again, not to hype up Toriyama, but this is one of those cases where he did good in something with modern Dragon Ball.

I know not everyone likes Beerus, but can say I prefer the lazy all powerful GoD take to being basically Baby 2.0 by a long shot. Baby was one of the best parts of GT, and there would've been no need to replicate what he did with infecting others and turning them against Goku with another antagonist. An instance of Toei being creatively bankrupt.

And that twist by Toei about the saiyans sounds even worse than the DB Minus retcon with Bardock.

With what we got in the end, they still kept Beerus somewhat of a bastard, with him having been the one who ordered Frieza to destroy Planet Vegeta, not that it's a plot point I expect to see revisited. Beerus originally being a reptilian villain doesn't sound too bad on its own, but after the previous saturation of them with the shadow dragons in GT, him becoming modeled after Toriyama's cat was for the best I felt. I'm a cat person too, so might be biased there, but instantly liked Beerus's final design.

Oh, Beerus can sure appeal to more than just cat people...

Beast Gohan looks like he was cropped straight out of DBAF in this chapter:

As an aside, Krillin also soaked a strike from Cell Max, and clipped his wing with a Destructo Disc. vin

Just glad the recap shit is coming to a close again, at least for now. With any luck, the next main original manga arc will start next year before Dragon Ball Muppet Babies starts airing.

Also, looks like Death Battle is doing a part 3 to Goku vs Superman. Even with as much a tired horse of a topic it is and with all the powerups Goku got since their last video on it, doubt their stance will change. Their recent Frieza vs Megatron was cool at least, which I couldve seen going either way, but showing how dangerous Black Frieza can be even when cut in half was a nice way to end it. Wasnt sure how to feel on their Vegeta vs Thor though.

I hope Chapter 101 takes after EoZ with Gokou training with Uub.