Originally posted by Nephthys
The quote you're referring to only says that Sidious was "believed" to know every power and it is written from an in-universe perspective making it doubly unreliable.
IIRC, it says he was believed to know almost every force power. So yeah...
Sidious is most likely the character who has more knowledge in using the force than anyone else but I don't think its possible for any individual to know every force power(except perhaps for the Ones, it is).
Originally posted by Sinious
That is interesting coming from you. I myself am still hesitant about it until I see Vitiate fighting other force users with a host body. However, in spirit form while having the capability of destroying an entire planet, I'm not sure how Vitiate won't defeat ROTS Sidious.I guess it can be justified by declaring Vitiate a non-sith after losing his title as their Emperor. That would make him being more powerful than ROTS Sidious more appropriate.
What could Palpatine do to an amped spirit/energy being that's anchored to Ziost and it's inhabitants? TK some buildings? Cut the ground with his saber?
As far as their over all power/command over the dark side, Sidious even as of ROTS still takes the cake. He was more threatening to the force (hence the creation of the chosen one, and his death being the most important prophecy to be fulfilled in SW history), and has manipulated the force on a far greater scale than Ziost Vitiate, but none of those showings would serve in killing someone who is basically anchored to an entire planet, and Palpatine as of ROTS has yet to show the destructive capability to destroy one. Then again, Palpatine's Byss feat happened shortly after the clone wars, so he may have the power to override Vitiate's influence over Ziost, considering Palpatine, too, would benefit from it's nexus, but that's for another debate I guess.
This is Vitiate's most powerful version. What Vitiate might be capable of doing in his new body, is unknowable for now, and it most certainly doesn't reflect his power of his original hosts for obvious reasons, unless he's on neutral ground and his Ziost amp disappears.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
What could Palpatine do to an amped spirit/energy being that's anchored to Ziost and it's inhabitants? TK some buildings? Cut the ground with his saber?As far as their over all power/command over the dark side, Sidious even as of ROTS still takes the cake. He was more threatening to the force (hence the creation of the chosen one, and his death being the most important prophecy to be fulfilled in SW history), and has manipulated the force on a far greater scale than Ziost Vitiate, but none of those showings would serve in killing someone who is basically anchored to an entire planet, and Palpatine as of ROTS has yet to show the destructive capability to destroy one. Then again, Palpatine's Byss feat happened shortly after the clone wars, so he may have the power to override Vitiate's influence over Ziost, considering Palpatine, too, would benefit from it's nexus, but that's for another debate I guess.
This is Vitiate's most powerful version. What Vitiate might be capable of doing in his new body, is unknowable for now, and it most certainly doesn't reflect his power of his original hosts for obvious reasons, unless he's on neutral ground and his Ziost amp disappears.
Overall, I agree. What do you mean by ''Byss feat happened shortly
After Clone Wars''?
Exactly. For me to decide about Vitiate vs ROTS Sidious, I have to see him in combat. Right now I'm still not sure.
The Complete Visual Guide states that he began populating Byss a shortly after he transformed the republic into the GE, indicating that he was already capable of planetary subjugation with his own power. Basically he infused Byss with such dark side power that once there the inhabitants succumbed to it, being both mentally enslaved and drained simultaneously. The New Essential Guide to Characters states that millions were being ferried at a time.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I may be getting the sources mixed up, but I'm more than certain The New Essential Guide to Characters is one source that indicates he was already capable of planetary subjugation shortly after the clone wars.I'll check later.
Yeah he was, here's the quote.
Imperial ships ferried millions of immigrants to the planet Byss, where the Emperor fed off their life energies through the darkside.- Taken from New Essential Guide to Characters.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
To explain, it is a canonical fact that the organic body can only channel so much Force energy. Something we see demonstrated when the students of Luke’s Jedi Praxeum focus their energy using the Great Temple on Yavin 4, and channel it through Dorsk 81:Evidently, if a Force user has too much Force energy channelled through their body, it has the effect of boiling them alive, and eventually killing them. The Sith Emperor however – not being contained to a physical form when performing the Ziost feat – would have no such restrictions, possessing no physical threshold at all. The only limitations to the amount of energy he can channel being his capacity to wield the Force, not how much his body can handle. In this state, tremendously powerful and instantaneous exertions of energy would have been within his power without the risk of suffering damage or the destruction.
You realize that Darth Sidious managed to unleash Force Storm while being housed in a clone body? And that he sought a strong Jedi body because clones were not perfect and would suffer decay from prolonged exposure to dark side practices?
It shall be noted that Sidious - in essence form - is terribly restricted in his ability to manipulate the Force and is able to perform only Transfer Essence and this too in a defenseless host. This is a shortcoming that he have not been able to address.
On the other hand, Vitiate - in essence form - have demonstrated the capability to manipulate the Force in unparalleled ways:
1) Feeding on other beings, chaos, and deaths on mass scale
2) Possessing other beings on mass scale and utilizing them for various activities
3) Creating powerful beings from pure dark side energy (e.g. Monolith)
4) Multi-tasking with (1 - 3)
5) Ravaging an entire planet with destructive Dark Side powers
Essentially, some of the greatest feats on record.
This comparison is an indication that Vitiate have reached a whole new level of competency in wielding the Dark Side in comparison to any Sith.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Now you might raise the point “but the Ziost feat doesn’t compare to TKing 17 SDs!! So why would Ziost push him over the threshold?” And in the respect that the Sith Emperor has been surpassed by a bunch semi-trained Jedi, you'd be correct.
Requirement for TK'ing 17 starships = a bunch of Jedi
Requirement for ravaging an entire planet = about 8000 Sith, meditating for 10 days non-stop.
Vitiate was able to control the destructive power of the Dark Side that was unleashed on planet Medriaas for personal gains, long before his prime. In the aftermath, Vitiate's capacity to wield the Force vastly increased:
He executes the Sith Council and consumes the life force of thousands of Sith Lords in a terrifying ritual that extends his life and vastly increases his capacity as a practitioner of the Force.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia
Originally posted by Beniboybling
That’s not in question. But you’d incorrect in assuming that TKing 17 SDs is the threshold, the point at which it becomes too much for the body to handle. It’s not, Luke for example experienced similar effects performing a far lesser feat:Luke, in creating a illusions of starships realistic enough to fool even electronic sensors, is pushed it his limits, and his body begins to suffer, this feat doesn’t really compare to Dorsk’s, or Vitiate’s, so it’s obvious the threshold of the human body is much lower, and that a massive explosion of energy like the kind we see on Ziost, could well have been above it.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Vitiate’s ability to instantly consume an entire planet in spirit form therefore, does not equate to his ability to do so in physical form, as he may have required say 8,000 Sith Lords, ten days and the most complex ritual ever performed – as he did previously – to accomplish this without being destroyed. To assume he can without that, is to baselessly speculate.
1. Vitiate continued to grow in power
2. Vitiate continued to hone his talents in the Dark Side
3. Vitiate could create and acquire a corporeally immortal host
But Vitiate, in pursuit of immortality, had evolved to such a degree that he no longer needed a physical host to manipulate the Force.
Ziost related developments are a testament to Vitiate's evolution and improvements in a span of centuries.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
If it is not already obvious what this means, it means that this feat cannot be compared with feats performed by Sidious while in a physical body, because the Sith Emperor was in possession of advantageous circumstances – exclusive of ability – that Sidious didn’t possess.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Now with that out of the way, I’ll return to the notion that Sidious can replicate this feat, this time by looking at Palpatine’s own Force draining capabilities.Darth Sidious slowly siphoned the life force of 20 billion people on Byss and in the process transformed them into mindless slaves to his will. However in order to do this he had, or at least elected, to use the energy he was siphoning to in part power the process itself.
It’s an impressive feat, but is it as impressive as Ziost? Well from this feat we are able to make some estimations as to what he could do to Ziost if placed in the Sith Emperor’s shoes.
The population of the Ziost is unknown, however due to its inhospitable terrain it is likely to be sparse. New Adasta is the only city mentioned, and at no point do we visit another location. On that basis we can only conclude New Adasta to be the only city that exists on the planet.
Indeed despite the fact that the Sith Emperor has dominated the entire world, no other areas seem at all important to warrant a visit. Kaas has but one city. Korriban has but one city. Are we to believe Ziost an exception to the rule and that other cities indeed exist? I await proof.
Moving on, to begin to make some estimations on the population, we can look at Kaas City, that has a population of millions:Considering Kaas is the capital of the Empire, a hub of Imperial activity and major metropolis, we have little reason to believe that New Adasta would be at all dissimilar in numbers, and seeing as we are comparing Byss’ billions to Ziost’s millions, we can approximate a generous 20 million.
That’s one thousand times smaller than Byss’ population.
One thousand.
Do you know what that means? It means that Sidious could perform his Byss feat on Ziost with one thousand times as much ease. Or alternatively, he could do it one thousand times better. And that’s without even accounting for the fact that Sidious mentally dominated the population, as well as siphoning their life force. Mentally dominating a target requires just as much energy as draining them, if not more, so with that no longer a factor, the ease doubles.
Or alternatively, the potency doubles. That’s two thousand times as potent.
And this is without accounting the fact that:[list=1][*]Palpatine still isn’t trying. We’ve yet to factor in him applying his full power.
[*]Ziost unlike Byss (pre-corruption) is a Sith world strong in the dark side.[/list=1]No Ziost is not a potent dark side nexus like Dromund Kaas, but neither was Prakith. And yet Bane used that nexus to create an all-consuming death field of Force draining energy.
Go figure.
Irrespective of that, to suggest that Palpatine’s Byss feat on two thousand times the scale would not equate if not totally surpass the Sith Emperor’s Ziost feat is plainly ridiculous. But this remains hypothetical, and I’m fully aware when bereft of all counters you guys will be like:
“Prove it! Trolololololol.”
Vitiate also have the capability to drain on planetary-scale, numbers do not matter. In fact, distance does not hinders Vitiate since he have drained targets from light-years distances.
However, the power that Vitiate unleashed on Ziost is not Force Drain in strict sense, it is a wave of destructive Dark Side energy that spread across the planet and consumed any living being in its path:
Numbers are absolutely irrelevant. If billions had been stationed on Ziost, all of them would have perished.
Consider Tsunami as an analog. If a world-wide Tsunami has to occur (that is powerful enough to engulf entire planet), it would destroy all life on the Earth. Billions wouldn't matter.
Vitiate's ultimate power is like a Tsunami of destructive Dark Side energy, that spreads across the planet.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
🙄
Originally posted by Beniboybling
So allow me to preempt that response and provide concrete proof that Palpatine can kill a world.Palpatine’s most destructive ability on record, as discussed, is the Force Storm technique.
Let’s just go over its capabilities again, it can:
Continue to read below.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
[*]Swallow entire fleets of capital ships.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
[*]Tear away the surfaces of planets.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
[*]Destroy a 17.5 km super star dreadnought, the largest ship in the Imperial fleet.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
[*]Shatter the very fabric of space and time.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
[*]Be dispatched and directed to targets light-years away.
It's coming out of hyperspace..." - Tseb Nllel Whub
Originally posted by Beniboybling
It’s been described as arguably the most destructive Force power in existence,
Originally posted by Beniboybling
and it surpasses the destructive power of the Vitiate’s ritual in several respects.
but Ziost represents a clear display of the corrosive power of the dark side of the Force taken to its extreme.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor
Keep in mind that Force Storm is also an ancient invention; an ancient artifact Darkstaff could be used to conjure it. So it is covered in comparison.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
On top of that Sidious may have been able to summon multiple of these Force storms at once.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
It is quite obvious that using the full extent of his powers, Sidious possesses immeasurable destructive might.
Enduring and merciless and quite possibly unkillable, Monoliths plainly illustrate the immeasurable power of their creator and are best avoided at all costs.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Rise of the Emperor
And on-screen demonstration of destruction of Ziost.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Now as Merchant has pointed out, Sidious has demonstrated the ability to destroy celestial bodies when he turned his Force storm against Da Soocha, but I just want to reinforce that as fact. First of all we have Luke Skywalker’s statement from the Jedi Path:It’s been argued that this ability while written in reference to the Palpatine, cannot be used to explicitly apply this power to him. However if we place this in the actual contexts of Da Soocha, it becomes quite obvious Luke is indeed referring to the Emperor’s abilities, observe:
It is quite obvious that Sidious not only turned his Force storm against the Republic fleets, but the moon itself. Mothma describes it as "taking over the planet", suggesting planetary scope. Cross reference this with Luke’s claim that it “has the power to kill worlds” and it becomes clear that Palpatine planned to destroy Da Soocha and was fully capable of doing so.
More importantly, Da Soocha V and Pinnacle Moon Base, both were destroyed by the Galaxy Gun.
The original Da Soocha was ravaged by war: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Devastation_of_Da_Soocha
No proof that Force Storm ravaged these moons.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I’d also note that Luke’s statement is written in the contexts of a sourcebook, not a novel or some other subjective narrative. It is obvious that the writers are merely being creative with the manner in which they are conveying information, but there intentions are nonetheless to inform with factual reference material, not dubious and questionable opinions. For those reasons, Luke Skywalker’s words can be interpreted as fact. Sidious could kill Da Soocha.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
On top of that, Palpatine had been just defeated and weakened by Luke in a duel, and as the comic depicts, appears to conjure the Force storm with little exertion on his part, with ease. The implication or rather blatant fact being that this is not the full extent of his power.
Excuses and excuses and excuses.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Does it matter that Da Soocha is a mere moon? No. Habitable moons surrounding planetary bodies have been known to range in diameter from 5,000 km to over 10,000, and likewise planets themselves have been as small as 5,000 km and as large as 20,000. We know neither the size of Ziost nor the size of Da Soocha, and to speculate on that note is to do so baselessly.The point being, that nowhere in the course of these events are we giving reason to believe Palpatine could not kill a planet with this celestial body destroying power. And the second point being, that Luke is clearly referring to Darth Sidious specifically, not the ability in general.
Which brings us back to Luke’s statement😄oes Luke say, it has the power to kill moons? Asteroids? Space debris? No. He says worlds.
Is a planet a world? Yes. Is Ziost a world? Yes. Would Palpatine’s Byss feat, performed to two thousand times the potency on Ziost, therefore be enough to kill the planet? Hell yes.
Conclusion: Palpatine > Life.
All we have is a Luke's claim and it is being blown out of context. Killing a planet is just an interpretation. Not a documented evidence.
In fact Ziost related development can also be interpreted as the planet being killed. Reason? Its atmosphere and natural environment is damaged beyond repair.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Addendum:Is this power exclusive to DE Sidious? Not really. I’ve already demonstrated Sidious can replicate Ziost based on ROTJ Palpatine’s accomplishments, and in terms of the Force Storm I’d remind you that again Palpatine was weakened, this was not the full extent of his power.
So ROTJ Sidious > Vitiate too.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Finally (yes its almost over), because Legend is probably going to raise this point again, I’ll shoot it down now.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Cute. But first let’s remind ourselves of the “assertion” in question:It is quite obvious that Revan & co. are speculating on possibilities, not stating facts beyond what we don’t already know. And indeed it’s a possibility that Scourge brings into question.
There is nothing definitive or conclusive about this “assertion”, it is mere speculation and to be taken as such. Yet despite you in the past taking this to be gospel, you refuse to acknowledge a clear and definite statement made in the contexts of a sourcebook?
I’m afraid the only double standard being demonstrated here is your own.
In contrast, you are treating Luke Skywalker's claim vis-à-vis destructive potential of Force Storm like a gospel. This is the double-standard. That you take speculations about Darth Sidious very seriously but you find excuses to discard the same about Vitiate.
And you expect me to take Luke's metaphoric interpretation as concrete evidence? Nice try.
Originally posted by NephthysI'm aware, and I suspected those where your reasons. However considering its written in a sourcebook, a piece of factual reference material, we are given no reason to "believe" it is not true. It being the belief of the authors who wrote the book, not some in-universe character, it supposed to be taken as fact.
The quote you're referring to only says that Sidious was "believed" to know every power and it is written from an in-universe perspective making it doubly unreliable.
IIRC, it says he was believed to know almost every force power. So yeah...It says "nearly" all "known" powers, so its not impossible.Sidious is most likely the character who has more knowledge in using the force than anyone else but I don't think its possible for any individual to know every force power(except perhaps for the Ones, it is).
Certainly on that basis though he'd be aware of a power Ulic was.
Originally posted by ZenwolfDoes that have a date attached to it though?
Yeah he was, here's the quote.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
I'm aware, and I suspected those where your reasons. However considering its written in a sourcebook, a piece of factual reference material, we are given no reason to "believe" it is not true. It being the belief of the authors who wrote the book, not some in-universe character, it supposed to be taken as fact.
"I know that it holds no factual weight and is obviously wrong, but I want it to be true so I think it is."
The sourcebook isn't written from the perspective of anyone with significant authority on the subject. Theres no reason to believe they're well versed enough to know that Sidious does know all techniques. The book isn't written directly from the author, its purposefully written from in-universe and thus is fallible.
I mean geez I knew you guys worshiped Sidious over on Swtor.com but I didn't know you still held onto such faulty quotes. Even the diehard fanboys conceded this argument a decade ago over on here.
Originally posted by NephthysAnd on what basis are you claiming that the intended perspective of the DE sourcebook is a random and intentionally unreliable individual, in comparison to any other sourcebook? What purpose does a factual reference book hold if it is not factual and cannot be referenced?
"I know that it holds no factual weight and is obviously wrong, but I want it to be true so I think it is."The sourcebook isn't written from the perspective of anyone with significant authority on the subject. Theres no reason to believe they're well versed enough to know that Sidious does know all techniques. The book isn't written directly from the author, its purposefully written from in-universe and thus is fallible.
I mean geez I knew you guys worshiped Sidious over on Swtor.com but I didn't know you still held onto such faulty quotes. Even the diehard fanboys conceded this argument a decade ago over on here.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDMy argument is what I said it was, that it cannot be said with any level of certainty that a feat performed as a spirit can be replicated in physical form due to the intrinsic limitations of the physical form, and to claim as much is to speculate with no basis.
Your argument is that it is not possible to utilize most devastating Dark Side abilities with a physical body, right?
You realize that Darth Sidious managed to unleash Force Storm while being housed in a clone body? And that he sought a strong Jedi body because clones were not perfect and would suffer decay from prolonged exposure to dark side practices?Yet by your own words, it is an inferior feat. And its true, though the Force storm possesses incredible destructive potential, it is not the same as the instant explosion of dark side energy we see at Ziost.
It shall be noted that Sidious - in essence form - is terribly restricted in his ability to manipulate the Force and is able to perform only Transfer Essence and this too in a defenseless host. This is a shortcoming that he have not been able to address.You're conveniently omitting a key factor here. That the Sith Emperor, unlike Sidious, spent a great deal of time gathering power by draining the living Force, Sidious was not in a position to do this, and we can't speculate on his abilities in the event that he was.On the other hand, Vitiate - in essence form - have demonstrated the capability to manipulate the Force in unparalleled ways:
1) Feeding on other beings, chaos, and deaths on mass scale
2) Possessing other beings on mass scale and utilizing them for various activities
3) Creating powerful beings from pure dark side energy (e.g. Monolith)
4) Multi-tasking with (1 - 3)
5) Ravaging an entire planet with destructive Dark Side powersEssentially, some of the greatest feats on record.
This comparison is an indication that Vitiate have reached a whole new level of competency in wielding the Dark Side in comparison to any Sith.
If you want an accurate comparison, look at their spirit feats at point of death i.e. prior to gathering living Force energy.
1. Palpatine rends the fabric of time and space to possess an acolyte light years away.
2. The Sith Emperor falls into a babbling slumber and his essence has to be collected by his Hands, incapable of movement himself.
Palpatine > Sith Emperor.
This is utter nonsense. TK'ing some starships is nothing compared to the power required to ravage an entire planet.You're merely reinforcing my point. If this Force ability is indeed "nothing" compared to the Ziost feat, then the possibility of him being able to perform in it physical form without extensive and complex ritual becomes a practical impossibility, considering the physical body can't even handle a supposedly far lesser feat without being totally destroyed.Requirement for TK'ing 17 starships = a bunch of Jedi
Requirement for ravaging an entire planet = about 8000 Sith, meditating for 10 days non-stop.Vitiate was able to control the destructive power of the Dark Side that was unleashed on planet Medriaas for personal gains, long before his prime. In the aftermath, Vitiate's capacity to wield the Force vastly increased:
He executes the Sith Council and consumes the life force of thousands of Sith Lords in a terrifying ritual that extends his life and vastly increases his capacity as a practitioner of the Force.
Taken from Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia
You are overlooking some developments:Great. What does this prove? This is not proof that the Sith Emperor overcame the physical limitations of his body, and it remains baseless speculation to assume he did.1. Vitiate continued to grow in power
2. Vitiate continued to hone his talents in the Dark Side
3. Vitiate could create and acquire a corporeally immortal hostBut Vitiate, in pursuit of immortality, had evolved to such a degree that he no longer needed a physical host to manipulate the Force.
Ziost related developments are a testament to Vitiate's evolution and improvements in a span of centuries.
Maybe the Sith Emperor discovered a means to do so, but without concrete proof, you can't make this claim.
Nice excuse.Logic hurts.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDI'm afraid that's not the case, the Sith Emperor isn't just unleashing a wave of destructive energy here, otherwise the destruction of Ziost would be a purposeless gesture.
You are a confused man.Vitiate also have the capability to drain on planetary-scale, numbers do not matter. In fact, distance does not hinders Vitiate since he have drained targets from light-years distances.
However, the power that Vitiate unleashed on Ziost is not Force Drain in strict sense, it is a wave of destructive Dark Side energy that spread across the planet and consumed any living being in its path:
Numbers are absolutely irrelevant. If billions had been stationed on Ziost, all of them would have perished.
Consider Tsunami as an analog. If a world-wide Tsunami has to occur (that is powerful enough to engulf entire planet), it would destroy all life on the Earth. Billions wouldn't matter.
Vitiate's ultimate power is like a Tsunami of destructive Dark Side energy, that spreads across the planet.
He is draining the planet. That requires energy equatable to the no. of subjects drained. Just as it requires more energy to drain one person than two.
So no, you shouldn't perceive it as a tsunami of destructive energy slowly spreading across the planet, but the Emperor steadily draining the life force of the world bit by bit and he actively spreads his influence across Ziost.
Regardless, its irrelevant. We are not discussing the technicalities of the Ziost feat here, we are discussing what Palpatine's Byss feat would look like if scaled down to Ziost. Irrespective of how he would go about it, Palpatine can still evidently replicate this feat.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDYour assuming I'm attempting to prove it is superior to Vititate's feat. I'm not.
Sure.Continue to read below.
I'm demonstrating that the Sidious has immeasurable destructive power, and in several respects that Vitiate's drain power does not, prove this is not the case.
However I would highlight some oddities with your response.
Translation: WormholeExplain how creating a wormhole with the Force is not a incredible display of power.
Via established hyperspace routes.Hyperspace =/= Hyperspace routes.It's coming out of hyperspace..." - Tseb Nllel Whub
Hyperspace is merely an alternate dimension. And considering that Palpatine's Force storms lack a hyperdrive, he'd have to use raw power to rip a whole into this dimension and enter it, and likewise use raw power to transport the Force storm across this dimension.
Debatable.Your missing the point, it places the Force storm in a certain league of destructive ability, the immeasurable and nigh incomparable kind.
Which Da Soocha? There are 5.Da Soocha V. And thanks for the lore update, but your confused, the point is that Sidious had the power to destroy the moon. He didn't however because he was interrupted, hence the moon survived.More importantly, Da Soocha V and Pinnacle Moon Base, both were destroyed by the [b]Galaxy Gun
.The original Da Soocha was ravaged by war: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Devastation_of_Da_Soocha
No proof that Force Storm ravaged these moons.[/b]
And Coruscant based event was controlled in destructive aspect, right? 🙄Yes lol prove otherwise. Obviously Sidious did not intend to destroy the galactic capital, so he did not.Excuses and excuses and excuses.
Instead it's been confirmed that that was not the full extent of his power:
Source: The Essential ChronologyNot excuses my friend, facts.He summoned up a huge Force storm, far more powerful than the one that had swept Coruscant. But this time, when Skywalker and his sister turned their combined resistance against him, Palpatine could no longer control what he had unleashed.
Again, their is not a single demonstrated evidence of Force Storm destroying an entire world. Not a single.I'd already explained why it is not an interpretation, but a fact. And I've already demonstrated that it was evidently within his power.All we have is a Luke's claim and it is being blown out of context. Killing a planet is just an interpretation. Not a documented evidence.
An appeal to ignorance will get you nowhere.
In fact Ziost related development can also be interpreted as the planet being killed. Reason? Its atmosphere and natural environment is damaged beyond repair.I wasn't aware that was in dispute.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDYou took them seriously, did you not?
I did not assert that those remarks are a concrete evidence. Such capability have been implied on the basis that Vitiate have grown in power since the event of Nathema and his growth had spanned centuries. I short, I highlighted such capability as a "possibility" at the time. And Vitiate continued to grow in power later on.
In contrast, you are treating Luke Skywalker's claim vis-à-vis destructive potential of Force Storm like a gospel. This is the double-standard. That you take speculations about Darth Sidious very seriously but you find excuses to discard the same about Vitiate.As a result of two key differences:And you expect me to take Luke's metaphoric interpretation as concrete evidence? Nice try.
1. There is no ambiguity to Luke's statement. He is not speculating, he is stating fact.
2. It is from an objective source, not a subjective narrative.
It is evidence, and on top of that evidence that has been verified.